Health Insurance is the Problem, Not The Answer

[DiamondDave]

No, no improvement at all. So seniors who have Medicare now are worse off than before when they had to fend for themselves. Solid analysis.

Serious question. Do you ever get tired of spewing bullshit out of your face day after day?

Yes.. in terms of amount paid .vs what is received... they are worse off than if they would have used the same money, joined groups of other seniors to buy into a group insurance plan, shopped around, knew what they were paying, etc... I watch my grandmother shell out hundreds and hundreds and hundreds each and every month to the god awful medicare.. they don't know the actual cost of anything.. they just write checks like some ghetto punk trying to make it rain in a strip club..

They would be MUCH better off if I would be able to put her as a dependent on a plan I could shop for in a system without the restrictions and regulations... being able to pay for preventative care from a doctor and using insurance for emergency and catastrophic care... seeing if the plan negotiated by my HOA is better than the one negotiated by my employer or better than the one negotiated by a group of military vets or better than the one negotiated by the Mickey Mouse club etc etc etc... having law where it NEEDS to be and SHOULD be, requiring full disclosure of charges, ensuring that people cannot be refused as customers if they are willing to pay, allowing free trade of the services across state lines, and bringing about tort reform...

You sir, are a winger, an idiot, and spew more bullshit than almost anyone (nobody can match a Black_Label or rdummy)

HAHAHAHA, did you really just suggest that seniors should band together and shop for insurance together on the open market? Please tell me that's what you just said.

What profit driven insurance company in their right mind will give seniors insurance at any sort of affordable rate? Seniors are the biggest liability group and thus the most expensive to ensure. Nice idea genius. Holy fuck you literally doubled down on retarded.

Like I asked before. Do you ever get tired of just saying the dumbest shit possible??

Competition brings prices down, not monopoly nor hidden price structures.. not taking others, putting things thru a government bureaucracy, and then providing a 'service'

Holy fuck, figured you skip over adding seniors to a FAMILY plan that the FAMILY can shop for with less regulation... figures you skip over paying out of pocket for preventative care or a care plan that is open on pricing rather than the bullshit hidden crap we have now where a cast for a broken arm runs in the 1000's thru the system

The system is broken do to more and more of these government interferences, regulations, and 'offerings' than anything else.. when what you hear from doctors and medical equipment providers is that you don't need to know a price, medicare will just pay for it, should scare the shit out of anyone..

 

[DiamondDave]

Healthcare and health insurance got out of control the first times that the fed started sticking its nose into it (where it never belonged) 40+ years ago... and the more they regulate, subsidize, get involved, provide, etc, the worse it gets

The best healthcare for the price, or one of the best, is in Japan's healthcare system. How much is the government involved there?

In the opinion of those who only favor socialist style systems.. you know.. being against anything like a company earning a profit, limiting a salary of a doctor, etc.. not to mention that the estimates show that their cost will be just like our current ones, and that their little socialist system (much like all the others) is UNSUSTAINABLE.. lest we look at the horrid ER care for actual emergencies and catastrophic care... and nothing like 70+% of government expense being wrapped around providing for a personal need or responsibility

:

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes.. in terms of amount paid .vs what is received... they are worse off than if they would have used the same money, joined groups of other seniors to buy into a group insurance plan, shopped around, knew what they were paying, etc... I watch my grandmother shell out hundreds and hundreds and hundreds each and every month to the god awful medicare.. they don't know the actual cost of anything.. they just write checks like some ghetto punk trying to make it rain in a strip club..

They would be MUCH better off if I would be able to put her as a dependent on a plan I could shop for in a system without the restrictions and regulations... being able to pay for preventative care from a doctor and using insurance for emergency and catastrophic care... seeing if the plan negotiated by my HOA is better than the one negotiated by my employer or better than the one negotiated by a group of military vets or better than the one negotiated by the Mickey Mouse club etc etc etc... having law where it NEEDS to be and SHOULD be, requiring full disclosure of charges, ensuring that people cannot be refused as customers if they are willing to pay, allowing free trade of the services across state lines, and bringing about tort reform...

You sir, are a winger, an idiot, and spew more bullshit than almost anyone (nobody can match a Black_Label or rdummy)

HAHAHAHA, did you really just suggest that seniors should band together and shop for insurance together on the open market? Please tell me that's what you just said.

What profit driven insurance company in their right mind will give seniors insurance at any sort of affordable rate? Seniors are the biggest liability group and thus the most expensive to ensure. Nice idea genius. Holy fuck you literally doubled down on retarded.

Like I asked before. Do you ever get tired of just saying the dumbest shit possible??

Competition brings prices down, not monopoly nor hidden price structures.. not taking others, putting things thru a government bureaucracy, and then providing a 'service'

Holy fuck, figured you skip over adding seniors to a FAMILY plan that the FAMILY can shop for with less regulation... figures you skip over paying out of pocket for preventative care or a care plan that is open on pricing rather than the bullshit hidden crap we have now where a cast for a broken arm runs in the 1000's thru the system

The system is broken do to more and more of these government interferences, regulations, and 'offerings' than anything else.. when what you hear from doctors and medical equipment providers is that you don't need to know a price, medicare will just pay for it, should scare the shit out of anyone..

In order for market driven competition to work, you have to let the demand side operate freely as well,

which means you can't inject billions of dollars worth of demand into the equation, in such a way as does Medicaid, for example,

because that will artifically drive up prices if the supply side is allowed to run free, so to speak.

And Medicaid and other props to demand aren't going away.

 

[DiamondDave]

And you wonder why medicaid was complained about all this time.. as well as these other government subsidies/interferences

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

The availability of insurance makes goods and service appear to be "free", thus adding to inflation in those areas.
Only the government could fail to understand that people spend their own money more wisely than they spend other people's money.
Health Care's Third-Party Spending Trap - Reason.com

Many doctors—myself included— will gladly substantially discount their fees in return for up-front payments from people who pay directly for their health care. Hospitals, ambulatory surgical centers, and urgent care clinics do the same. Why shouldn’t they? They don’t have to pay an army of staff to fill reams of forms and wait weeks to months to collect payment from an insurance company that sometimes is lower than what they get from their direct-pay patients.

Yet most of these same providers have much higher “list prices”—the official prices they list publicly—which are used to negotiate compensation contracts with health insurance companies and other third party payers

More at the source.

"""Health Insurance is the Problem, Not The Answer"""

Amen. It's not only the problem, it's borderline fraud.

I wonder, does the ACA reinforce the insurance company's ability to keep you on a month to month contract?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Healthcare and health insurance got out of control the first times that the fed started sticking its nose into it (where it never belonged) 40+ years ago... and the more they regulate, subsidize, get involved, provide, etc, the worse it gets

The best healthcare for the price, or one of the best, is in Japan's healthcare system. How much is the government involved there?

In the opinion of those who only favor socialist style systems.. you know.. being against anything like a company earning a profit, limiting a salary of a doctor, etc.. not to mention that the estimates show that their cost will be just like our current ones, and that their little socialist system (much like all the others) is UNSUSTAINABLE.. lest we look at the horrid ER care for actual emergencies and catastrophic care... and nothing like 70+% of government expense being wrapped around providing for a personal need or responsibility

:

Where is there a free market system of healthcare that provides comparable or better quality healthcare than Japan, at as good or better a price?

 

[Kosh]

The far left does not care as long as they can have the government control every aspect of your life.

 

[NYcarbineer]

And you wonder why medicaid was complained about all this time.. as well as these other government subsidies/interferences

Well of course it's easy to fix the overall cost of healthcare if you decide that the poor will have to sink or swim on their own.

That's never going to happen in America. That's why the dreamworld you live in and the crazy ideas it spawns are so ridiculously irrelevant to any common sense conversation.

 

[dblack]

O-care will finally control Big Health's/Insurance's ridiculous costs and scams, and will be added to FOREVER...too bad for them and their Pub cronies, dupes.

LOL>.. riiight.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

The far left does not care as long as they can have the government control every aspect of your life.

That's it! Nailed it. I wake up every morning to the Federal FM 101 radio station. It tells me to get out of bed and turn on my Mr. Coffee which brews my Bureaucrat-Bean Special Blend.

I then put on my gray government issue uniform, this time of year it sports a Mitch McConnell Turtle collar in fashionable red, white and blue stripes.

After a quick bowl of Congressional Captain Crunch cereal I walk DRONE-like out to my Detroit-bailed out Nissan which still uses heavily federally-regulated priced gasoline since the government has taken over and nationalized the oil companies, and I go drive to my big, fat bureaucratic job in northern Maryland.

I have Edward Snowden's old office. I play video games all day, write my blog and of course, post here.

Thanks for making all this possible.

 

[dblack]

The only way to correct healthcare costs and still maintain a high level of competent care is to ban health insurance.

You don't even need to do that. Just quit propping it up artificially with state subsidies and tax incentives. People were starting to bail on insurance, which is why they pushed for the mandate. They want to keep their hooks in us for as long as possible.

 

[DiamondDave]

And you wonder why medicaid was complained about all this time.. as well as these other government subsidies/interferences

Well of course it's easy to fix the overall cost of healthcare if you decide that the poor will have to sink or swim on their own.

That's never going to happen in America. That's why the dreamworld you live in and the crazy ideas it spawns are so ridiculously irrelevant to any common sense conversation.

PERSONAL UPKEEP AND PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.. medicaid was a mistake in the first place... just like every other government handout program, both private and corporate

It is those aspects of the 'socialized' system that drag us down... and it is the ever growing legion of leeches that keep it going... for as those in power vote to increase that group by giving more, making it easier to get handouts, making people think they are owed shit for nothing... and we are at that 50% tipping point... where a majority can demand to be supported by the minority at the hand of government.. and that is NOT what the constitution and the framers setting it up ever intended for this country to be...

Strides must be made to go onto the path of ending this shit... period.. or else we are doomed to complete government control.. the leeches don't really care, but those of us who have pulled ourselves up and have a smidgen of success certainly do

 

[Indeependent]

Damn that ReaganCare!
Only a Republican can screw up someone and still be worshipped by the Logical Party.

 

[dblack]

Damn that ReaganCare!
Only a Republican can screw up someone and still be worshipped by the Logical Party.

Are you sure? Democrats seem pretty good at it too.

 

[The Rabbi]

The availability of insurance makes goods and service appear to be "free", thus adding to inflation in those areas.
Only the government could fail to understand that people spend their own money more wisely than they spend other people's money.
Health Care's Third-Party Spending Trap - Reason.com

Many doctors—myself included— will gladly substantially discount their fees in return for up-front payments from people who pay directly for their health care. Hospitals, ambulatory surgical centers, and urgent care clinics do the same. Why shouldn’t they? They don’t have to pay an army of staff to fill reams of forms and wait weeks to months to collect payment from an insurance company that sometimes is lower than what they get from their direct-pay patients.

Yet most of these same providers have much higher “list prices”—the official prices they list publicly—which are used to negotiate compensation contracts with health insurance companies and other third party payers

More at the source.

Right, health insurance companies offer very little in the healthcare equation except to inflate prices. They need to be removed from the equation completely.

I guess you support a single payer model that cuts out profit driven health insurance companies all together.

I guess you have your head so far up your ass all you smell is shit.
No, dipshit. the whole problem is 3rd party payor where the "consumer" is not the one paying for it. Put in single payer/socialized medicine and the problem becomes worse,not better.
Of course since you didnt read the article you don't understand that.

 

[The Rabbi]

Damn that ReaganCare!
Only a Republican can screw up someone and still be worshipped by the Logical Party.

Reagan instituted third party payors for medical care? Wow, who knew?

 

[NYcarbineer]

And you wonder why medicaid was complained about all this time.. as well as these other government subsidies/interferences

Well of course it's easy to fix the overall cost of healthcare if you decide that the poor will have to sink or swim on their own.

That's never going to happen in America. That's why the dreamworld you live in and the crazy ideas it spawns are so ridiculously irrelevant to any common sense conversation.

PERSONAL UPKEEP AND PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.. medicaid was a mistake in the first place... just like every other government handout program, both private and corporate

It is those aspects of the 'socialized' system that drag us down... and it is the ever growing legion of leeches that keep it going... for as those in power vote to increase that group by giving more, making it easier to get handouts, making people think they are owed shit for nothing... and we are at that 50% tipping point... where a majority can demand to be supported by the minority at the hand of government.. and that is NOT what the constitution and the framers setting it up ever intended for this country to be...

Strides must be made to go onto the path of ending this shit... period.. or else we are doomed to complete government control.. the leeches don't really care, but those of us who have pulled ourselves up and have a smidgen of success certainly do

You have every right to live in the 14th century if that's what you desire. You just don't have the right to compel the rest of us to come live with you.

 

[healthmyths]

The availability of insurance makes goods and service appear to be "free", thus adding to inflation in those areas.
Only the government could fail to understand that people spend their own money more wisely than they spend other people's money.
Health Care's Third-Party Spending Trap - Reason.com

Many doctors—myself included— will gladly substantially discount their fees in return for up-front payments from people who pay directly for their health care. Hospitals, ambulatory surgical centers, and urgent care clinics do the same. Why shouldn’t they? They don’t have to pay an army of staff to fill reams of forms and wait weeks to months to collect payment from an insurance company that sometimes is lower than what they get from their direct-pay patients.

Yet most of these same providers have much higher “list prices”—the official prices they list publicly—which are used to negotiate compensation contracts with health insurance companies and other third party payers

More at the source.

Although I largely agree with the gist of this, you should understand that the "doctor" cited in the article is hardly representative of the health care industry. That whole industry--and doctors in particular--have profited handsomely from the concealed costs of the insurance industry scam, and they are the reason it still exists (and why we still do not have real national healthcare for Americans).

Healthcare industry professionals are the reason for the extraordinary cost of American healthcare.

All you are do is guessing. You have no documentation to support you comments.
Now here are FACTS you can check out and then if you are NOT to lazy maybe refute the points I'm making...
FIRST WHAT was the "health care crisis"??? Most people FEEL don't think it was what Obama said:

"We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,"

So I am 100% confident YOU too think there are "46 million"..

THERE NEVER WERE 46 million that were legal citizens, that knew they were covered by Medicaid or WANTED insurance!
Now if you have any guts you'll check these links that I provide!!!

1) 10 million are not citizens : Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

2) 14 million eligible are like 2 people I KNOW that are eligible for MEDICAID but just haven't REGISTERED!!! http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
Do you understand??? These 14 million are eligible for Medicaid... THEY WERE before ACA! But the failure of the organization that is trying to push ACA couldn't seem
to get these 14 million registered! WHY?


3) 18 million under 34 making over $50,000 don't want their employers' plans..!! don't want:CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009

So you tell me why it is NECESSARY to FORCE these people to buy something??


Add the 10 million illegals, the 14 million that don't know and the 18 million that don't want equals: 42 million is what that adds up to but not 46 million for sure!

But totally ignorant people obviously like YOU guess, and believe the idiot president and others and NEVER investigate the above links!
4 million that is all! NOT 46 million and not worth destroying health care!

 

[Kimura]

The health care system in the US is a TOTAL market failure.

The dirty little secret in the US is that workers pay MOST of all the costs for their own health care. This is done through out-pocket payments, contributions to premiums, moving compensation $$$$ from wages to benefits, as well as state/federal/payroll taxes for Medicare, etc.

Employers, insurers, unions, and providers don't serve the best interests of employees. Insurance companies price gauge by leveraging purchasing power to extract discounts from health care providers to reduce benefits. The very large providers will utilize their market position to increase prices without a consideration to costs or quality. We then have employers leverage their position in the labor market where employees have less employment options. They can get away with getting increased deductibles and out-of-pocket payments from their employees. And unions resist as much as they can, given they've basically been decimated.

If we look at the numbers it's pretty pathetic. Average premium and out-of-pocket expenses are roughly 40% of median household income, and even more if we include the payroll tax. Our total health care outcomes for the US population are moving at a very slow rate, yet premiums keep increasing year after year. This transfer of our wages to total health care isn't providing any type of improved value for our money.

 

[Rshermr]

The availability of insurance makes goods and service appear to be "free", thus adding to inflation in those areas.
Only the government could fail to understand that people spend their own money more wisely than they spend other people's money.
Health Care's Third-Party Spending Trap - Reason.com


More at the source.

Although I largely agree with the gist of this, you should understand that the "doctor" cited in the article is hardly representative of the health care industry. That whole industry--and doctors in particular--have profited handsomely from the concealed costs of the insurance industry scam, and they are the reason it still exists (and why we still do not have real national healthcare for Americans).

Healthcare industry professionals are the reason for the extraordinary cost of American healthcare.

All you are do is guessing. You have no documentation to support you comments.
Now here are FACTS you can check out and then if you are NOT to lazy maybe refute the points I'm making...
FIRST WHAT was the "health care crisis"??? Most people FEEL don't think it was what Obama said:

"We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children,"

So I am 100% confident YOU too think there are "46 million"..

THERE NEVER WERE 46 million that were legal citizens, that knew they were covered by Medicaid or WANTED insurance!
Now if you have any guts you'll check these links that I provide!!!

1) 10 million are not citizens : Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

2) 14 million eligible are like 2 people I KNOW that are eligible for MEDICAID but just haven't REGISTERED!!! http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
Do you understand??? These 14 million are eligible for Medicaid... THEY WERE before ACA! But the failure of the organization that is trying to push ACA couldn't seem
to get these 14 million registered! WHY?


3) 18 million under 34 making over $50,000 don't want their employers' plans..!! don't want:CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009

So you tell me why it is NECESSARY to FORCE these people to buy something??


Add the 10 million illegals, the 14 million that don't know and the 18 million that don't want equals: 42 million is what that adds up to but not 46 million for sure!

But totally ignorant people obviously like YOU guess, and believe the idiot president and others and NEVER investigate the above links!
4 million that is all! NOT 46 million and not worth destroying health care!

Ah. So our medical system was good. Which countries pay or paid as much for health care as us???
Must be Norway They have socialized medical insurance. No charge for any of them for medical procedures, dental care, eye care, or prescriptions. Has to be really expensive, unlike our wonderful private insurance system.

Right???

Which would explain why only one country (the Marshall Islands) has higher healthcare costs per person as a share of gnp than the US. Barely.
And why Norway spends just over half as much per person as we do.

Yup. Our health care costs are great. Assuming you are a health care insurance company that is. But then, it could be worse. You could live in the Marshall Islands.
Healthcare spending around the world, country by country | News | theguardian.com