Hateful -Spiteful - Mean-Spirited People and Politics

[Michelle420]

Media is full of discussion of it. Do you indentify or not?

I remember battling people I knew in their attacks against Bush, the most viscious attacks until the ones against Obama. Then there is the defend at all costs knee jerk defense, and worst...the outrageous and most despicible attacks lobbed against Bush or Obama that are set ups for attacking any sane person who defends against such lunacy


What has happened to American politics since Reagan days?

Reagan days were just as bad imo.

 

[Trajan]

What is this, the Rush Limbaugh Hour on usmb? A substantial majority of the people backing President Obama are covering up failures of President Obama, because they don't want to see the first black President look bad?

Wow! Such naked honesty. Do you and people like Traj know what you are revealing about yourselves? Jesus. .. .

right because the left is not obsessed with race...or gender..and use it as a cudgel and mind you even on their own, who hide their eyes or provide weak excuses....

do I need to post more comments, lets say, from the dem hierarchy that is over the top insultingly patronizing as to obamas race?

you started this thread, and, as usual you're getting your ass kicked...time to spam something else bro......

Right... The Left is but a small faction that forms part of a voting base that never gets it's way. Look at the lefist candidates that won Dem primaries...Kucinich? The Greens? Ralph Nader? McCarthy? McGovern?

The far right tail wags the GOP dog. What did the anti war left or even Occupy get from Obama?

I cannot answer for your lack of knowledge....from the epa, to the FEC, to the IRS, to the FERC.....the dept of labor......

and killing or restructuring obmacare is a far right issue? wow, I guess over half the country is far right then.....who knew

 

[asterism]

Media is full of discussion of it. Do you indentify or not?

I remember battling people I knew in their attacks against Bush, the most viscious attacks until the ones against Obama. Then there is the defend at all costs knee jerk defense, and worst...the outrageous and most despicible attacks lobbed against Bush or Obama that are set ups for attacking any sane person who defends against such lunacy


What has happened to American politics since Reagan days?

imho your insult-o-meter is outta whack.....Bush is the champ.

I have been politically active since Ford, I cannot remember a president, using the office and pulpit as Obama does to denigrate his opponents.

and hey, this isn't new, try googling political cartoons from the founders days....except now , it comes straight from the horses mouth and it hurts him in ways that , could be easily construed as purposefully non constructive.

The civil cpnservative treatment of tbe President. "Liar!" And watermelons on white house lawn as humor widely shared.

And I used to posses books on colonial political cartions and pamphlets

Maybe calling the President a monkey wasn't a good idea afterall.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

right because the left is not obsessed with race...or gender..and use it as a cudgel and mind you even on their own, who hide their eyes or provide weak excuses....

do I need to post more comments, lets say, from the dem hierarchy that is over the top insultingly patronizing as to obamas race?

you started this thread, and, as usual you're getting your ass kicked...time to spam something else bro......

Right... The Left is but a small faction that forms part of a voting base that never gets it's way. Look at the lefist candidates that won Dem primaries...Kucinich? The Greens? Ralph Nader? McCarthy? McGovern?

The far right tail wags the GOP dog. What did the anti war left or even Occupy get from Obama?

I cannot answer for your lack of knowledge....from the epa, to the FEC, to the IRS, to the FERC.....the dept of labor......

and killing or restructuring obmacare is a far right issue? wow, I guess over half the country is far right then.....who knew

How pathetically sad to think I once considered you a worthy...never mind.

You dare use popularity polls and opinion polls to label the public as far right or far left? The piblic will suppprt issues and then flip flop on support or non support depending on spin and media messaging.

President Obama himself has restructured aspects of the PPACA and been attacked for it. There is no honest and serious discussion from Obamacare opponents regarding restructuring. It is all about politics and trying to kill healthcare reform

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

@Quantum Windbag

A People's History doesn't have a single footnote in the entire fucking book, where the fuck did he back up any of his claims? Only a complete hack who thinks no one else has ever picked up a book would ever claim that Zinn backed up anything he said with an actual source or even scholarly research. The only reason he is popular with the intellectuals is that he painted them as the champions of the downtrodden masses. This gives them the cover they need to support a government that exist only to preserve its power and to protect the intellectuals against the uprising of the common man. Why the fuck do you think they support gun control? It isn't because they care about children.

You remind me of one of those professional grad students (failures) who are a dime a dozen in the Boston/Cambridge/Somerville area...you just don't get IT and you never will.

The facts in Zinn's History are not in dispute -- his slant and opinions are.

Get IT yet? Oh, that's right you're still waiting for approval from authority figures.

Never mind

Do I or did i agree with Zinn's views and narrative or his ideological slant? Not really, but his honesty about where he was coming from was always refreshing.

footnotes? You can't even respond to a point made. You create strawmen and knock them down. Oy vey!

The facts in Zinn's history aren't facts. At best, they are over simplifications of complex issues. At their worst, they are flat out wrong. One example of the latter that comes to mind off the top of my head is the fact that Fort Pillow is not in Kentucky. An example of the former is the claim that Polk started the Mexican War as a pretext to annex California.

Zinn holds these things up as the sacred cows that need to be slaughtered, but he is far from the only person to have done so.

There you go again throwing up a stated opinion as if it were a fact you then refute as opinion.

Who started any war is usually, but not always difficult to objectively discern. Why a was is started gets murkier. Who initiates hostilities is not always agreed upon unless hostilies as a term is agreed upon.

There are facts in any story or history. Dabte mentioned he di not agree with Zinn on tbings but found his upfront approach refreshing.

Unlike people like you Zinn states where he is coming from. It's even in the title. He does not clam "fair and balanced" but he.does deserve "we report, you decide" credit. After all, you are able as anyone else to research what Zinn claims.

Jesus, youre a moron sometimes

 

[Rozman]

Media is full of discussion of it. Do you indentify or not?

I remember battling people I knew in their attacks against Bush, the most viscious attacks until the ones against Obama. Then there is the defend at all costs knee jerk defense, and worst...the outrageous and most despicible attacks lobbed against Bush or Obama that are set ups for attacking any sane person who defends against such lunacy


What has happened to American politics since Reagan days?

The normal people moved to the Democratic Party and the right wing went "nutz" over a black being president.

I seem to remember Clinton getting his balls broken by the Republicans.
Was that racial as well?

Ed Asner the actor stated that many Hollywood types were reluctant to speak out against Obama because he is black.

They don't have the balls to stand up to him because it would be perceived to be a racial attack!

That's the problem when lefties abuse the race card.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[MENTION=20981]Rozman[/MENTION] the usmb house dope

Media is full of discussion of it. Do you indentify or not?

I remember battling people I knew in their attacks against Bush, the most viscious attacks until the ones against Obama. Then there is the defend at all costs knee jerk defense, and worst...the outrageous and most despicible attacks lobbed against Bush or Obama that are set ups for attacking any sane person who defends against such lunacy


What has happened to American politics since Reagan days?

The normal people moved to the Democratic Party and the right wing went "nutz" over a black being president.

Helps explain your pathetic avatar.

I seem to remember Clinton getting his balls broken by the Republicans.
Was that racial as well?

Ed Asner the actor stated that many Hollywood types were reluctant to speak out against Obama because he is black.

They don't have the balls to stand up to him because it would be perceived to be a racial attack!

That's the problem when lefties abuse the race card.

gotta say you have a lot of balls admitting you seriously take cues from hollywood types
My hat is off to you

 

[Rozman]

Just wondering why people think being critical of a President seems to be racially motivated.

The normal people moved to the Democratic Party and the right wing went "nutz" over a black being president.

 

[Rozman]

Biden said Obama was intelligent,well spoken,clean.....

Biden's description of Obama draws scrutiny - CNN.com

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Poor [MENTION=20981]Rozman[/MENTION] can't distinguish between, ignorance, hatred, bigotry, mean spiritedness, intentional personsonally attacking a person's chsracter or being...

Little wonder Dante rarely touches anf of it's posts.

 

[Trajan]

[MENTION=29697]freedombecki[/MENTION] [MENTION=23420]Quantum Windbag[/MENTION]. [MENTION=23905]Trajan[/MENTION]

hey hey hey, dante had books on this you know

Were the books written by Howard Zinn?

Met Mr Zinn in early 70s, or very late 60s on Boston Common where he was sitting on the grass with some woman. They were enjoying the day at some rally/protest. I was just an adolescent teen taking in the scene. Funny thing is, read his 'history' with a critical eye. He has more of interest and value to say than ten of you and maybe twenty Trajans....he backs his stuff up.

Zinn actually served in the military, unlike many chickenhawks.

Do I or did i agree with Zinn's views and narrative or his ideological slant? Not really, but his honesty about where he was coming from was always refreshing. You people could learn a few things of you took the shit out of uour ears.

his honesty? ...soooooo, what he was ideologically pure there by he had 'value'? For god sakes, you need to read more books too, or maybe FBI files....... telling like it is? a true believer? Like he denied being a member of the communist party? not only was his 'history' fantastical garbage, but he was a liar to boot. Hows that for pure?

 

[Trajan]

Right... The Left is but a small faction that forms part of a voting base that never gets it's way. Look at the lefist candidates that won Dem primaries...Kucinich? The Greens? Ralph Nader? McCarthy? McGovern?

The far right tail wags the GOP dog. What did the anti war left or even Occupy get from Obama?

I cannot answer for your lack of knowledge....from the epa, to the FEC, to the IRS, to the FERC.....the dept of labor......

and killing or restructuring obmacare is a far right issue? wow, I guess over half the country is far right then.....who knew

How pathetically sad to think I once considered you a worthy...never mind.

You dare use popularity polls and opinion polls to label the public as far right or far left? The piblic will suppprt issues and then flip flop on support or non support depending on spin and media messaging.

President Obama himself has restructured aspects of the PPACA and been attacked for it. There is no honest and serious discussion from Obamacare opponents regarding restructuring. It is all about politics and trying to kill healthcare reform

oh right, you really want to discuss his restructuring of obamacare?


I see you left out the meat of my post, poor dante, still getting your ass kicked.

come on man, theres another thread to troll, gosh, something dante, go get'em killer.........you picked a poor topic for your coming out party....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

@Quantum Windbag



You remind me of one of those professional grad students (failures) who are a dime a dozen in the Boston/Cambridge/Somerville area...you just don't get IT and you never will.

The facts in Zinn's History are not in dispute -- his slant and opinions are.

Get IT yet? Oh, that's right you're still waiting for approval from authority figures.

Never mind


footnotes? You can't even respond to a point made. You create strawmen and knock them down. Oy vey!

The facts in Zinn's history aren't facts. At best, they are over simplifications of complex issues. At their worst, they are flat out wrong. One example of the latter that comes to mind off the top of my head is the fact that Fort Pillow is not in Kentucky. An example of the former is the claim that Polk started the Mexican War as a pretext to annex California.

Zinn holds these things up as the sacred cows that need to be slaughtered, but he is far from the only person to have done so.

There you go again throwing up a stated opinion as if it were a fact you then refute as opinion.

Who started any war is usually, but not always difficult to objectively discern. Why a was is started gets murkier. Who initiates hostilities is not always agreed upon unless hostilies as a term is agreed upon.

There are facts in any story or history. Dabte mentioned he di not agree with Zinn on tbings but found his upfront approach refreshing.

Unlike people like you Zinn states where he is coming from. It's even in the title. He does not clam "fair and balanced" but he.does deserve "we report, you decide" credit. After all, you are able as anyone else to research what Zinn claims.

Jesus, youre a moron sometimes

I get it now, when he moves Fort Pillow from Tennessee to Kentucky, that isn't a fact, it is an opinion.

And you wonder why I treat you with contempt.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[MENTION=29697]freedombecki[/MENTION] [MENTION=23420]Quantum Windbag[/MENTION]. [MENTION=23905]Trajan[/MENTION]

Were the books written by Howard Zinn?

Met Mr Zinn in early 70s, or very late 60s on Boston Common where he was sitting on the grass with some woman. They were enjoying the day at some rally/protest. I was just an adolescent teen taking in the scene. Funny thing is, read his 'history' with a critical eye. He has more of interest and value to say than ten of you and maybe twenty Trajans....he backs his stuff up.

Zinn actually served in the military, unlike many chickenhawks.

Do I or did i agree with Zinn's views and narrative or his ideological slant? Not really, but his honesty about where he was coming from was always refreshing. You people could learn a few things of you took the shit out of uour ears.

his honesty? ...soooooo, what he was ideologically pure there by he had 'value'? For god sakes, you need to read more books too, or maybe FBI files....... telling like it is? a true believer? Like he denied being a member of the communist party? not only was his 'history' fantastical garbage, but he was a liar to boot. Hows that for pure?

Anyone who didn't know where Zinn was coming from...oh wait....you....

never mind

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I cannot answer for your lack of knowledge....from the epa, to the FEC, to the IRS, to the FERC.....the dept of labor......

and killing or restructuring obmacare is a far right issue? wow, I guess over half the country is far right then.....who knew

How pathetically sad to think I once considered you a worthy...never mind.

You dare use popularity polls and opinion polls to label the public as far right or far left? The piblic will suppprt issues and then flip flop on support or non support depending on spin and media messaging.

President Obama himself has restructured aspects of the PPACA and been attacked for it. There is no honest and serious discussion from Obamacare opponents regarding restructuring. It is all about politics and trying to kill healthcare reform

oh right, you really want to discuss his restructuring of obamacare?


I see you left out the meat of my post, poor dante, still getting your ass kicked.

come on man, theres another thread to troll, gosh, something dante, go get'em killer.........you picked a poor topic for your coming out party....

Poor Trajan, as clueless as ever. Dante initiated this thread...he is the OP.

To address the so-called meant of most any of your posts is to go off topic.

Thanx for playing

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The facts in Zinn's history aren't facts. At best, they are over simplifications of complex issues. At their worst, they are flat out wrong. One example of the latter that comes to mind off the top of my head is the fact that Fort Pillow is not in Kentucky. An example of the former is the claim that Polk started the Mexican War as a pretext to annex California.

Zinn holds these things up as the sacred cows that need to be slaughtered, but he is far from the only person to have done so.

There you go again throwing up a stated opinion as if it were a fact you then refute as opinion.

Who started any war is usually, but not always difficult to objectively discern. Why a was is started gets murkier. Who initiates hostilities is not always agreed upon unless hostilies as a term is agreed upon.

There are facts in any story or history. Dabte mentioned he di not agree with Zinn on tbings but found his upfront approach refreshing.

Unlike people like you Zinn states where he is coming from. It's even in the title. He does not clam "fair and balanced" but he.does deserve "we report, you decide" credit. After all, you are able as anyone else to research what Zinn claims.

Jesus, youre a moron sometimes

I get it now, when he moves Fort Pillow from Tennessee to Kentucky, that isn't a fact, it is an opinion.

And you wonder why I treat you with contempt.

You do know most every book contains errors? I guess in your world most authors are liars.

Truth is Dante never paid much attention to how you imagine your delusions affect others, especially himself. Sorry. Maybe you can bum a quarter off somebody and use one of the last remaining phone booths to call 411 and ask for somebody who cares?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There you go again throwing up a stated opinion as if it were a fact you then refute as opinion.

Who started any war is usually, but not always difficult to objectively discern. Why a was is started gets murkier. Who initiates hostilities is not always agreed upon unless hostilies as a term is agreed upon.

There are facts in any story or history. Dabte mentioned he di not agree with Zinn on tbings but found his upfront approach refreshing.

Unlike people like you Zinn states where he is coming from. It's even in the title. He does not clam "fair and balanced" but he.does deserve "we report, you decide" credit. After all, you are able as anyone else to research what Zinn claims.

Jesus, youre a moron sometimes

I get it now, when he moves Fort Pillow from Tennessee to Kentucky, that isn't a fact, it is an opinion.

And you wonder why I treat you with contempt.

You do know most every book contains errors? I guess in your world most authors are liars.

Truth is Dante never paid much attention to how you imagine your delusions affect others, especially himself. Sorry. Maybe you can bum a quarter off somebody and use one of the last remaining phone booths to call 411 and ask for somebody who cares?

Unlike you, I read multiple books. (I know, it is hard for you to believe that it is possible to read more than 1 book every 10 years, but trust me, it can be done.) I actually enjoy reading history from a slant that challenges everything I believe, it keeps me on my toes. That is how I know that Michael Kazin dismisses Zinn's work as bad history dressed in good intentions. I am also aware that Oscar Handin handed down a scathing review of A People's History and said he ignored the facts in order to spread the legend. Arthur Schlessinger dismissed him as a polemicist.

By the way, why does he dismiss the case against Sobel and Rosenberg even after the Soviet archives were opened and Sobel confessed? If he is about facts, wouldn't it matter that Sobel was actually guilty?

Did you know he believed that 9/11 was a plot and that bin Laden was framed?

If you want to argue that he is an icon of the American left, and that anyone that wants to understand the politics of victimization should read his work, feel free. If you want to pretend he would know the truth if it stomped his face into the ground, I will point out how stupid you are every fucking time.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You want to know what people who actually care about history think of Zinn's books?

Read this.

Earlier this month, George Mason University's History News Network asked readers to vote for the least credible history book in print. The top pick was David Barton's right-wing reimagining of our third president, Jefferson's Lies: Exposing the Myths You've Always Believed about Thomas Jefferson. But just nine votes behind was the late Howard Zinn's left-wing epic, A People's History of the United States. Bad history, it turns out, transcends political divides.
If these books seem an unlikely pair, they also have a good deal in common. Both flatter their readers by promising to let them in on hidden truths of which most people, and most experts, are unaware. Both offer stark, simplistic accounts (buttressed, in Barton's case, by a litany of historical errors). And both undermine the notion that the past can be rationally interrogated, debated, and revised by people from opposite sides of the ideological spectrum.

Lies the Debunkers Told Me: How Bad History Books Win Us Over - Chris Beneke and Randall Stephens - The Atlantic

Wow, that must sting, he is the intellectual equivalent of David Barton. That must suck, especially if you have ever read the shit Barton puts out.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

More reading for people that want to understand why Zinn should be avoided like Barton.

FrontPage Magazine - Master of Deceit

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

What is it with the rabid attacks and venomous posts by windy?

Unhappy camper?

Zinn is interesting, that is all.