Has Trump ever taken responsibility?

progressive hunter

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
 

iceberg

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.
It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.
and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.
Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).
I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.
I think you are right - Trump is a reaction to Obama, but what doesn't make sense is Obama did not govern that far left - he was pretty close to center. Even his healthcare policy was a mix of private/public (not one payer). So it puzzles me why he was constantly being labeled "far left radical" by the right. And just for giggles - compare to most of the candidates in the Democratic primary this time around. Anyway - that's a diversion for another thread.

This is a good question: The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

By "don't like them because of what they represent" - do you mean their policies and platform? That would be a fair reason to be critical. If it's simply because of the D or the R in front of their name, then it's pretty partisan.

In my personal view - Trump has done things I wouldn't tolerate in anyone, even if they aligned 100% with my interests.
I think the same about Hillary. If my brother wiped a hard drive after being asked for info I'd make him answer for it.

No not after yet another debate on that, just an example of what we need to do to get back to a baseline of facts when to this day people still defend her for it.

Obama pushed where people pee, transgender rights, made 22 bullets impossible to find, spyed on journalists, congress, more, ran guns to Mexico, gave Iran back billions and coincidently got "hostages" released...

Again not here to debate any of this. But it's what the right saw. None of that is anywhere near center.
 
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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
 

Clipper

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
And of course you believed him.
 

Crixus

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
 

progressive hunter

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
fake news,,,
 
OP
Coyote

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
And of course you believed him.
Hell no.
 

progressive hunter

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
And of course you believed him.
Hell no.
you know you secretly love trump and is why youre acting like a moron that hates him,,,that way you can make his opponents look like crazies and get more people to vote for him,,,
 
OP
Coyote

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.
 

Crixus

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
 

BS Filter

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
They don't care. The left has one goal, to destroy President Trump. They're sick creatures.
 
OP
Coyote

Coyote

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
Who's talking about plagues?

This is not about taking responsibility for the pandemic - that's out of anyone's hands. It's overall policies and mistakes and the ability of a leader to take responsibility.
 

Crixus

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
They don't care. The left has one goal, to destroy President Trump. They're sick creatures.

They Learned nothing from Obamas presidency. The harder they go at him he just gets more popular. It's the same with Trump. Every week since he was elected they have been at it and all they did was make America hate them.
 

Crixus

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
Who's talking about plagues?

This is not about taking responsibility for the pandemic - that's out of anyone's hands. It's overall policies and mistakes and the ability of a leader to take responsibility.

You don't really believe that. Your just still pissed about 2016.
 

Bruce Daniels

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
The short answer is NO. And he never will. Nothing is ever his fault.
 

Mac1958

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Politics don't make me emotional.
Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.
It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.
and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.
Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).
I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.
I think you are right - Trump is a reaction to Obama, but what doesn't make sense is Obama did not govern that far left - he was pretty close to center. Even his healthcare policy was a mix of private/public (not one payer). So it puzzles me why he was constantly being labeled "far left radical" by the right. And just for giggles - compare to most of the candidates in the Democratic primary this time around. Anyway - that's a diversion for another thread.

This is a good question: The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

By "don't like them because of what they represent" - do you mean their policies and platform? That would be a fair reason to be critical. If it's simply because of the D or the R in front of their name, then it's pretty partisan.

In my personal view - Trump has done things I wouldn't tolerate in anyone, even if they aligned 100% with my interests.
Certainly Trump's presence is largely a reaction to Obama, but you're right - Obama didn't govern from nearly far left as talk radio hosts (and therefore Trumpsters) say. He angered the left constantly for NOT doing so, and there are many on the left who feel betrayed today. And they're vociferous about that. Interestingly, the same words could be said about Bill Clinton. Both men knew that there was a TOO FAR left, and they simply didn't go there.

But remember that these folks inhabit a world of simplistic hyperbole. If you're not fully and emotionally devoted to Trump, you're a radical Nazi Hitler Marxist commie (RNHMC) and an active enemy of the country. If you dare to point out Trump's humiliating and childish behaviors, you're an RNHMC. If you point out he communicates at a fourth grade level, you're an RNHMC. If you wish he wouldn't show up and ramble on at those press conferences, you're an RNHMC. And most importantly, if you dare to disagree with or criticize any policy action he takes, you're an ultra double super RNHMC and member of the Fake News Deep State (FNDS).

The bottom line is Trump is simply a symptom of a much larger problem. While I'm not a fan of the guy, I don't hate him. It's the emotional, blind adoration that concerns me.
 

iceberg

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.
It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.
and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.
Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).
I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.
I think you are right - Trump is a reaction to Obama, but what doesn't make sense is Obama did not govern that far left - he was pretty close to center. Even his healthcare policy was a mix of private/public (not one payer). So it puzzles me why he was constantly being labeled "far left radical" by the right. And just for giggles - compare to most of the candidates in the Democratic primary this time around. Anyway - that's a diversion for another thread.

This is a good question: The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

By "don't like them because of what they represent" - do you mean their policies and platform? That would be a fair reason to be critical. If it's simply because of the D or the R in front of their name, then it's pretty partisan.

In my personal view - Trump has done things I wouldn't tolerate in anyone, even if they aligned 100% with my interests.
Certainly Trump's presence is largely a reaction to Obama, but you're right - Obama didn't govern from nearly far left as talk radio hosts (and therefore Trumpsters) say. He angered the left constantly for NOT doing so, and there are many on the left who feel betrayed today. And they're vociferous about that. Interestingly, the same words could be said about Bill Clinton. Both men knew that there was a TOO FAR left, and they simply didn't go there.

But remember that these folks inhabit a world of simplistic hyperbole. If you're not fully and emotionally devoted to Trump, you're a radical Nazi Hitler Marxist commie (RNHMC) and an active enemy of the country. If you dare to point out Trump's humiliating and childish behaviors, you're an RNHMC. If you point out he communicates at a fourth grade level, you're an RNHMC. If you wish he wouldn't show up and ramble on at those press conferences, you're an RNHMC. And most importantly, if you dare to disagree with or criticize any policy action he takes, you're an ultra double super RNHMC and member of the Fake News Deep State (FNDS).

The bottom line is Trump is simply a symptom of a much larger problem. While I'm not a fan of the guy, I don't hate him. It's the emotional, blind adoration that concerns me.
again - if:

transgenders being able to use the ladies room is a fight
transgenders being able to compete in female sports is a fight
transgenders in the military is an issue
his stance on "anti-police" where he normally came out *against* law enforcement and with the "victim"
his stance on guns and making rounds hard to find
his spying on the press and congress
having to take down anything related to the souths past as it is offensive
setting the precedent for executive orders to get around congress
open borders
don't spend much on military (they're still recovering)

if those are "centrist" stances, what would an extreme stance be? society in general saw these as invasive on traditional times. those on the left said "sorry i'm woke it's time".

again - other than just balls out socialism, what other policies would be further left than what he did during his tenure? i'm not saying there's no room left to "go left" i'm saying he took it where we've never been before. i'm not arguing whether or not these actions are right or wrong - just that they were extreme for the time.

as for blind admiration of someone - barak owns a lot of that also and its not fair to say he doesn't. if you were critical of him or his policies, you had a world of pain coming at you in one form or another. people lost jobs for speaking out FOR the police (school principal in miami for one) and more just like this. kids were making up school songs to sing about him. you don't do that unless you have a strong to blind admiration for someone.

people simply have a blind admiration for their side. if you're in that side, you won't see it as much as if you hate it when others are doing what you are doing quite a bit of yourself. (you is general here for the left not YOU).
 

iceberg

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.
voting is where things start, to me. if you vote and go back to life as we know it (and 99% of us do) then how are we helping making the very changes we demand others make? how are we then working to bridge this gap between mindsets? a herculean effort that will take a decade to get past, if we ever do. we have one side constantly wishing death on the other side. no one wants to really call those people out cause they'll get yelled at next.

we have to be willing to drop our guard and accept ideas from the other side as valid. i don't see either side doing that and i don't see many people willing to let go of their hate and distrust for the other side. in that mindset, nothing will change regardless of our vote.
 

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Do you take responsibility for your inane posts?
 
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Coyote

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
Who's talking about plagues?

This is not about taking responsibility for the pandemic - that's out of anyone's hands. It's overall policies and mistakes and the ability of a leader to take responsibility.

You don't really believe that. Your just still pissed about 2016.
Nope. It has nothing to do with 2016. You guys need to quit using it as an excuse. That's like saying you opposed Obama because he was black.
 

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