Has Trump ever taken responsibility?

progressive hunter

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.
It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.
and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.
Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).
I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.
I think you are right - Trump is a reaction to Obama, but what doesn't make sense is Obama did not govern that far left - he was pretty close to center. Even his healthcare policy was a mix of private/public (not one payer). So it puzzles me why he was constantly being labeled "far left radical" by the right. And just for giggles - compare to most of the candidates in the Democratic primary this time around. Anyway - that's a diversion for another thread.

This is a good question: The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

By "don't like them because of what they represent" - do you mean their policies and platform? That would be a fair reason to be critical. If it's simply because of the D or the R in front of their name, then it's pretty partisan.

In my personal view - Trump has done things I wouldn't tolerate in anyone, even if they aligned 100% with my interests.
Certainly Trump's presence is largely a reaction to Obama, but you're right - Obama didn't govern from nearly far left as talk radio hosts (and therefore Trumpsters) say. He angered the left constantly for NOT doing so, and there are many on the left who feel betrayed today. And they're vociferous about that. Interestingly, the same words could be said about Bill Clinton. Both men knew that there was a TOO FAR left, and they simply didn't go there.

But remember that these folks inhabit a world of simplistic hyperbole. If you're not fully and emotionally devoted to Trump, you're a radical Nazi Hitler Marxist commie (RNHMC) and an active enemy of the country. If you dare to point out Trump's humiliating and childish behaviors, you're an RNHMC. If you point out he communicates at a fourth grade level, you're an RNHMC. If you wish he wouldn't show up and ramble on at those press conferences, you're an RNHMC. And most importantly, if you dare to disagree with or criticize any policy action he takes, you're an ultra double super RNHMC and member of the Fake News Deep State (FNDS).

The bottom line is Trump is simply a symptom of a much larger problem. While I'm not a fan of the guy, I don't hate him. It's the emotional, blind adoration that concerns me.
Hear hear, well spake. It's the blind power of cultism, because cultism will not be persuaded by reality, the most basic truth we have.

A perfect example lies (literally, lies) just a couple of posts above this one in 346:

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
fake news,,,

Here's a cultist poster who alleges "he never said that", then is served documented proof that he did say exactly that, and STILL in spite of the record, claims it's not there. And that one too is on video.

When a cult follower willingly suspends all belief in reality, there is no ground any more, there is no reason. There is no rationality in "Ignorance is Strength". If there was, Orwell would not have needed to write a warning about it.
it came from you so its not true,,,its science,,,
 

iceberg

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
 

iceberg

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
Who's talking about plagues?

This is not about taking responsibility for the pandemic - that's out of anyone's hands. It's overall policies and mistakes and the ability of a leader to take responsibility.

You don't really believe that. Your just still pissed about 2016.
Nope. It has nothing to do with 2016. You guys need to quit using it as an excuse. That's like saying you opposed Obama because he was black.
and? that was the default answer to every time someone opposed obama's policies. cries of racism ran rampant from the left. it was worn like a shield to keep him FROM the very criticism lobbed at trump by the minute.

it is a fact the left started their attack the day trump won. they've made everything an issue or a point of attack and i do mean EVERYTHING. ice cream, fast foot for college athletes, how he says things, and the like. it's been a 24x7 constant barrage on trump.

i said then and you're seeing it now - when/if the day comes these criticisms are in fact warranted, it will be a hard sell because of the fluff-crap the left has been complaining about since day 1. it's a result of your own actions when on one cares about crying WOLF anymore.

we're to that point now. i'd love to think we can talk about trumps actions in a logical manner but we can't. the left makes it emotional and fear driven *every single time*. human nature being what it is, people tune that out and don't really care what side it's coming from, just that the topic is now useless noise.

so yes. it does come back to what they've been doing TO ME since the day he took office. pissed they lost and a refusal to even try to work with him.

queue "but that's what the right did to obama" as invariable that's where we go next.

rinse. repeat.
Desperation to deflect to the O'bama again duly noted, this thread setting some kinda record for Tu Quoque Fallacies, but just to humor it for the moment ---- please to show the class where O'bama declared anything remotely resembling "I will be the greatest jobs (or any adjective) President God ever created" or "I alone can fix it" or "blood coming out of her wherever" or described his father as having been born in a very wonderful place in Germany. Or alternately please to show us where he sat up all night twitting whiny butthurt about how Bush tapppppppppped his wires, or how he had the hubris to award himself a 10 out of 10 on how he handled ANYTHING, or where he stood in front of a reporter and bald-faced lied about something he had already said on the record.

This bullshit smells way out of date.
oh lord - king dicksuck is here.
 

bendog

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For all of Obama, or any other poutes's crowing, I don't think they ever said "only I can save you." And Trump did. And frankly many Latinos don't like open, illegal immigration. And a lot of us think China cheats, and someone before Trump should have at least tried to stop it. And a lot of us don't think we should solve every conflict on the planet. So don't try to sell the "everyone is against everything Trump does." It's not true.

What is true is Trump is obnoxious, a bully, a coward who never took responsibility EVER for anything he fucked up. His reality is fake reality TV and professional wrestling with fake personas and based on there being "a villain." There aren't villains in politics. Some are crooks, but just because people differ on a specific issue doesn't make a person good or bad … except in Trumpthink.

Corvid 19 is just the issue that came along. Trump was cruising to reelection on an economy he certainly ginned up with bullying the Fed and deficit spending unlike it's been tried since WWII, and Corvid 19 was simply an inconvenient fact that Trump decided to ignore. It doesn't work that way unless your playing with other people's money or on TV.
 

Crixus

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
Who's talking about plagues?

This is not about taking responsibility for the pandemic - that's out of anyone's hands. It's overall policies and mistakes and the ability of a leader to take responsibility.

You don't really believe that. Your just still pissed about 2016.
Nope. It has nothing to do with 2016. You guys need to quit using it as an excuse. That's like saying you opposed Obama because he was black.
and? that was the default answer to every time someone opposed obama's policies. cries of racism ran rampant from the left. it was worn like a shield to keep him FROM the very criticism lobbed at trump by the minute.

it is a fact the left started their attack the day trump won. they've made everything an issue or a point of attack and i do mean EVERYTHING. ice cream, fast foot for college athletes, how he says things, and the like. it's been a 24x7 constant barrage on trump.

i said then and you're seeing it now - when/if the day comes these criticisms are in fact warranted, it will be a hard sell because of the fluff-crap the left has been complaining about since day 1. it's a result of your own actions when on one cares about crying WOLF anymore.

we're to that point now. i'd love to think we can talk about trumps actions in a logical manner but we can't. the left makes it emotional and fear driven *every single time*. human nature being what it is, people tune that out and don't really care what side it's coming from, just that the topic is now useless noise.

so yes. it does come back to what they've been doing TO ME since the day he took office. pissed they lost and a refusal to even try to work with him.

queue "but that's what the right did to obama" as invariable that's where we go next.

rinse. repeat.
Desperation to deflect to the O'bama again duly noted, this thread setting some kinda record for Tu Quoque Fallacies, but just to humor it for the moment ---- please to show the class where O'bama declared anything remotely resembling "I will be the greatest jobs (or any adjective) President God ever created" or "I alone can fix it" or "blood coming out of her wherever" or described his father as having been born in a very wonderful place in Germany. Or alternately please to show us where he sat up all night twitting whiny butthurt about how Bush tapppppppppped his wires, or how he had the hubris to award himself a 10 out of 10 on how he handled ANYTHING, or where he stood in front of a reporter and bald-faced lied about something he had already said on the record.

This bullshit smells way out of date.

You remind m of Kosher Girl back when she was doing online collage. Every thing was a "logical fallacy". when you pretend to be phd'ed you just look retarded.
 

Dana7360

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?


trump takes the credit for other people's successes and forces his failures on other people.

Which is very low. Taking credit for what someone else has done is just disgusting.

Not taking responsibility for what you do or say is also disgusting and typical of today's conservative/republican behavior. Nothing is ever their fault.
 

Pogo

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
Who's talking about plagues?

This is not about taking responsibility for the pandemic - that's out of anyone's hands. It's overall policies and mistakes and the ability of a leader to take responsibility.

You don't really believe that. Your just still pissed about 2016.
Nope. It has nothing to do with 2016. You guys need to quit using it as an excuse. That's like saying you opposed Obama because he was black.
and? that was the default answer to every time someone opposed obama's policies. cries of racism ran rampant from the left. it was worn like a shield to keep him FROM the very criticism lobbed at trump by the minute.

it is a fact the left started their attack the day trump won. they've made everything an issue or a point of attack and i do mean EVERYTHING. ice cream, fast foot for college athletes, how he says things, and the like. it's been a 24x7 constant barrage on trump.

i said then and you're seeing it now - when/if the day comes these criticisms are in fact warranted, it will be a hard sell because of the fluff-crap the left has been complaining about since day 1. it's a result of your own actions when on one cares about crying WOLF anymore.

we're to that point now. i'd love to think we can talk about trumps actions in a logical manner but we can't. the left makes it emotional and fear driven *every single time*. human nature being what it is, people tune that out and don't really care what side it's coming from, just that the topic is now useless noise.

so yes. it does come back to what they've been doing TO ME since the day he took office. pissed they lost and a refusal to even try to work with him.

queue "but that's what the right did to obama" as invariable that's where we go next.

rinse. repeat.
Desperation to deflect to the O'bama again duly noted, this thread setting some kinda record for Tu Quoque Fallacies, but just to humor it for the moment ---- please to show the class where O'bama declared anything remotely resembling "I will be the greatest jobs (or any adjective) President God ever created" or "I alone can fix it" or "blood coming out of her wherever" or described his father as having been born in a very wonderful place in Germany. Or alternately please to show us where he sat up all night twitting whiny butthurt about how Bush tapppppppppped his wires, or how he had the hubris to award himself a 10 out of 10 on how he handled ANYTHING, or where he stood in front of a reporter and bald-faced lied about something he had already said on the record.

This bullshit smells way out of date.
oh lord - king dicksuck is here.
Better take care of that. See you when you get back.
 

Olde Europe

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because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?
So, you reduce the issue to testing, and then claim it's necessary to talk "overall".

I note, you didn't react with a single syllable to what I was saying.

I also note you didn't understand what was at issue there. A president's duty is NOT (surprise) to organize the creation of a test. It is to get competent people (as opposed to goons, loyalists, yes-men and cronies) to work for him in the national interest, and in a well-coordinated way. That's a thing you might have understood in the face of a pandemic response exercise that revealed catastrophic flaws in the nation's pandemic response, and no effort to correct that, while claiming no one could have seen a pandemic coming. The last one happened just over a decade ago. And yes, the buck stops with the president. He who would not fill crucial government positions (to save money), would disband crucial entities who would have been tasked with coordinating a competent response, would opt to defund the NHS and the CDC, most notably their presence in CHINA, and would not listen to, and breezily dismiss, folks who advised him on the coming pandemic.

Here, read the true words by an ultra-liberal, detailing it from the start to finish, and even that picture of complete and utter failure isn't complete.

Now, iceberg, run along. I am not, and will likely never be, a gentle, utterly admirable person of seemingly inexhaustibe patience, as is Coyote. That is my fault. Still, I have neither the time nor the patience to put up with your sanctimonious whines that everyone is so nasty toward your Dear Leader, and his hopelessly pathetic sycophants. Not while Americans are dying by the hundreds and thousands, paying the ultimate price for Trump's criminal negligence and incompetence.
 

Pogo

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For all of Obama, or any other poutes's crowing, I don't think they ever said "only I can save you." And Trump did. And frankly many Latinos don't like open, illegal immigration. And a lot of us think China cheats, and someone before Trump should have at least tried to stop it. And a lot of us don't think we should solve every conflict on the planet. So don't try to sell the "everyone is against everything Trump does." It's not true.

What is true is Trump is obnoxious, a bully, a coward who never took responsibility EVER for anything he fucked up. His reality is fake reality TV and professional wrestling with fake personas and based on there being "a villain." There aren't villains in politics. Some are crooks, but just because people differ on a specific issue doesn't make a person good or bad … except in Trumpthink.

Corvid 19 is just the issue that came along. Trump was cruising to reelection on an economy he certainly ginned up with bullying the Fed and deficit spending unlike it's been tried since WWII, and Corvid 19 was simply an inconvenient fact that Trump decided to ignore. It doesn't work that way unless your playing with other people's money or on TV.
Rump did basically the same thing China did a month or two prior ---- looked at what was going on and decided, "let's play this down, it'll make us/me look bad. And cost us/me money too". Until both of them came to the point of realizing they couldn't ignore it. The thing is, China went through it first, so Rump could have learned from China's fuckup. Could have even made himself look good by doing that. But he was too attached to his "economy" hangup. He gambled, and lost. Kind of like he did with the USFL. And Atlantic City.
 

iceberg

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because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?
So, you reduce the issue to testing, and then claim it's necessary to talk "overall".

I note, you didn't react with a single syllable to what I was saying.

I also note you didn't understand what was at issue there. A president's duty is NOT (surprise) to organize the creation of a test. It is to get competent people (as opposed to goons, loyalists, yes-men and cronies) to work for him in the national interest, and in a well-coordinated way. That's a thing you might have understood in the face of a pandemic response exercise that revealed catastrophic flaws in the nation's pandemic response, and no effort to correct that, while claiming no one could have seen a pandemic coming. The last one happened just over a decade ago. And yes, the buck stops with the president. He who would not fill crucial government positions (to save money), would disband crucial entities who would have been tasked with coordinating a competent response, would opt to defund the NHS and the CDC, most notably their presence in CHINA, and would not listen to, and breezily dismiss, folks who advised him on the coming pandemic.

Here, read the true words by an ultra-liberal, detailing it from the start to finish, and even that picture of complete and utter failure isn't complete.

Now, iceberg, run along. I am not, and will likely never be, a gentle, utterly admirable person of seemingly inexhaustibe patience, as is Coyote. That is my fault. Still, I have neither the time nor the patience to put up with your sanctimonious whines that everyone is so nasty toward your Dear Leader, and his hopelessly pathetic sycophants. Not while Americans are dying by the hundreds and thousands, paying the ultimate price for Trump's criminal negligence and incompetence.
In that case I will dumb it down for you.

Fuck off.
 
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Has anyone cited or listed what Trump is supposed to tell us sorry for?

That and the OP is COMPLETELY absurd. Pretty sure Trump knows he's responsibly for leading this country into the right direction (i.e., away from PROG-view) How come the OP doesn't know that?
Yes.

I'm guessing you jumped into this thread to opine without reading it, several examples were given, in different posts.
 
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Coyote

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
 

lantern2814

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.
 
OP
Coyote

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.
Obama's been out of office 3 years. Don't you think it's time to get over him?
 

iceberg

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
and that's all well and good - i wouldn't argue against it.

but that wasn't the question he responded to.

so - given the limited nature of the question he was asked, was it his fault for the delay in testing equipment? i'll be glad to discuss the others individually and within context - but for this one; the media has gone crazy in saying does not accept responsibility for ... ... ... what? it does seem they expanded his answer to a lot of questions that he was not asked.

was he responsible for the delay in testing equipment? if no, fine. if yes, how.

as to his style - irrelevant to this one question. no, i don't like it either but it has no bearing on whether or not he answered the question correctly. but again, we can talk about that on its own.
 

lantern2814

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.
Obama's been out of office 3 years. Don't you think it's time to get over him?
Seems you’re illiterate as well as a lying, ignorant apologist for Obozo. YOU mentioned him idiot. So now you get to listen to the truth about his incompetence. So Mayberry you should take your own advice. Your desperation is clear.
 

iceberg

Gold Member
Joined
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Messages
26,020
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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.
Obama's been out of office 3 years. Don't you think it's time to get over him?
Seems you’re illiterate as well as a lying, ignorant apologist for Obozo. YOU mentioned him idiot. So now you get to listen to the truth about his incompetence. So Mayberry you should take your own advice. Your desperation is clear.
dude...

the 6th grade must have been the hardest 3 years of your life.
 

progressive hunter

Gold Member
Joined
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Messages
14,745
Reaction score
2,515
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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.
Obama's been out of office 3 years. Don't you think it's time to get over him?
you only say that because it shows your hypocrisy,,,
 
OP
Coyote

Coyote

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:

"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"

-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?
True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.
and that's all well and good - i wouldn't argue against it.

but that wasn't the question he responded to.

so - given the limited nature of the question he was asked, was it his fault for the delay in testing equipment? i'll be glad to discuss the others individually and within context - but for this one; the media has gone crazy in saying does not accept responsibility for ... ... ... what? it does seem they expanded his answer to a lot of questions that he was not asked.

was he responsible for the delay in testing equipment? if no, fine. if yes, how.

as to his style - irrelevant to this one question. no, i don't like it either but it has no bearing on whether or not he answered the question correctly. but again, we can talk about that on its own.
True, as I said initially, given what you presented I would not hold him responsible for that delay.
 
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