Has Trump ever taken responsibility?

[whitehall]

You almost gotta laugh that a hundred years of democrat politicians have counted on full support from the mainstream media to avoid "taking credit" for mistakes. How many people remember JFK's blunder in the Bay of Pigs? Obama bragged about the mess he created in Obamacare. Democrats tried to impeach Reagan about protecting American interests in Central America. Why not ask NY Governor Cuomo why he threatened New Yorkers with the stigma of racism if they didn't renounce their own Country and pledge allegiance to the Chinese Republic?

And FoxNews wasn't complete bullshit during GW?

Fox news? I thought we were discussing JFK, Reagan and Obama taking responsibility while President Trump apparently fails to take responsibility for a global epidemic.

 

[Coyote]

You almost gotta laugh that a hundred years of democrat politicians have counted on full support from the mainstream media to avoid "taking credit" for mistakes. How many people remember JFK's blunder in the Bay of Pigs? Obama bragged about the mess he created in Obamacare. Democrats tried to impeach Reagan about protecting American interests in Central America. Why not ask NY Governor Cuomo why he threatened New Yorkers with the stigma of racism if they didn't renounce their own Country and pledge allegiance to the Chinese Republic?

And FoxNews wasn't complete bullshit during GW?

Fox news? I thought we were discussing JFK, Reagan and Obama taking responsibility while President Trump apparently fails to take responsibility for a global epidemic.

Funny...I thought we were talking about whether Trump ever took responsibility for anything and you’ve morphed it into the epidemic?

 

[Indeependent]

You almost gotta laugh that a hundred years of democrat politicians have counted on full support from the mainstream media to avoid "taking credit" for mistakes. How many people remember JFK's blunder in the Bay of Pigs? Obama bragged about the mess he created in Obamacare. Democrats tried to impeach Reagan about protecting American interests in Central America. Why not ask NY Governor Cuomo why he threatened New Yorkers with the stigma of racism if they didn't renounce their own Country and pledge allegiance to the Chinese Republic?

And FoxNews wasn't complete bullshit during GW?

Fox news? I thought we were discussing JFK, Reagan and Obama taking responsibility while President Trump apparently fails to take responsibility for a global epidemic.

The discussion warped into how to believe anything is true or ideological fabrication.
You may have that discussion with Coyote.

 

[whitehall]

You almost gotta laugh that a hundred years of democrat politicians have counted on full support from the mainstream media to avoid "taking credit" for mistakes. How many people remember JFK's blunder in the Bay of Pigs? Obama bragged about the mess he created in Obamacare. Democrats tried to impeach Reagan about protecting American interests in Central America. Why not ask NY Governor Cuomo why he threatened New Yorkers with the stigma of racism if they didn't renounce their own Country and pledge allegiance to the Chinese Republic?

And FoxNews wasn't complete bullshit during GW?

Fox news? I thought we were discussing JFK, Reagan and Obama taking responsibility while President Trump apparently fails to take responsibility for a global epidemic.

The discussion warped into how to believe anything is true or ideological fabrication.
You may have that discussion with Coyote.

It's all ideological fabrication and democrats have had the advantage since FDR. JFK used the CIA to raise and train and equip a thoroughly illegal invasion army but they wanted to impeach Trump on a phantom charge of collusion.

 

[Dr Grump]

What I find telling is, my OP is getting a number of "dislikes" but none of them have come up with a single instance of Trump taking responsibility.

He didn’t do anything wrong. What would you have done in his shoes? Why doesn’t our media and their so called experts take responsibility?

You are cherrypicking. Plenty of media outlets and experts have said otherwise.
That aside, the media and their experts are not the leader of the free world. He allegedly is.

They did? And you have links to this. Cherry-picking? Multiple sources in that video so how is that “cherry picking”? Be specific.

Feb 2020 Queensland confirms sixth coronavirus case as questions remain over immunity
Feb 2020 Update: Public Health Response to the Coronavirus Disease 2019 ...
Feb 2020 Already 1-in-6 Australian businesses have been affected by the coronavirus (COVID-19)

And that is just a simple Google. I do note almost every instance in your link is MNBC and CNN. Funny that...as I said - cherry picked.

 

[Dr Grump]

you are one seriously fucked in the head individual,,,,

And you're an abusive prick. Go figure! How unusual...an abusive Deplorable. Your master has taught you well Padawan. Now, grow some 'nads and find some examples...or are you content being a good little drone?

 

[Dr Grump]

Women who had zero to gain.

Wrong. They had zeroes to gain...

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I have had enough and all Trump is responsible for is being great, wise and the most perfect President ever!

Anything that goes right he is the reason of it and anything that goes wrong is a Democrat Hoax...

No more discussion and let just gaze at our magnificent leader and praise him as the chosen one...

 

[Indeependent]

You almost gotta laugh that a hundred years of democrat politicians have counted on full support from the mainstream media to avoid "taking credit" for mistakes. How many people remember JFK's blunder in the Bay of Pigs? Obama bragged about the mess he created in Obamacare. Democrats tried to impeach Reagan about protecting American interests in Central America. Why not ask NY Governor Cuomo why he threatened New Yorkers with the stigma of racism if they didn't renounce their own Country and pledge allegiance to the Chinese Republic?

And FoxNews wasn't complete bullshit during GW?

Fox news? I thought we were discussing JFK, Reagan and Obama taking responsibility while President Trump apparently fails to take responsibility for a global epidemic.

The discussion warped into how to believe anything is true or ideological fabrication.
You may have that discussion with Coyote.

It's all ideological fabrication and democrats have had the advantage since FDR. JFK used the CIA to raise and train and equip a thoroughly illegal invasion army but they wanted to impeach Trump on a phantom charge of collusion.

I'm sorry, I don't wear an R or D badge...they're all full of shit.
Ds have become far worse due to Obama worship.

 

[Indeependent]

Women who had zero to gain.

Wrong. They had zeroes to gain...

I was hoping you would post something like that...
I don't know how old you are, but prior to about the scant last few years the majority of the scarce WEB sites were owned by Corporate America.
There were no Smart devices back in the late 90s.
They had zero to gain because there was no way to get the message out and maintain momentum.
They came...they testified...they left.
There was no other option back then and no FoxNews to hire them.

Bill could never pull his shit again because someone would capture the scumbag in the act.

 

[Dr Grump]

Women who had zero to gain.

Wrong. They had zeroes to gain...

I was hoping you would post something like that...
I don't know how old you are, but prior to about the scant last few years the majority of the scarce WEB sites were owned by Corporate America.
There were no Smart devices back in the late 90s.
They had zero to gain because there was no way to get the message out and maintain momentum.
They came...they testified...they left.
There was no other option back then and no FoxNews to hire them.

Bill could never pull his shit again because someone would capture the scumbag in the act.

Huh? There were no scandals before smart devices?

You ever heard of a type of newspaper called a tabloid?

Are you serious? You think this is some kind of gotcha?

As for Bubba. Always said he was a great person but terribly flawed human being.

 

[iceberg]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:

• The failed Tom Daschle and Bill Richardson Cabinet nominations in 2009
• The BP oil spill in 2010
• Democrats’ loss of the House of Representatives in 2010
• The attack on the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012
• The VA scandal in 2014
• Democratic losses in the 2014 midterms
• The death of two hostages in an operation against al-Qaeda in 2015
• The Syrian government’s atrocities in Aleppo in 2016

Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.

It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.

Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.

and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.

Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).

I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

 

[Indeependent]

Women who had zero to gain.

Wrong. They had zeroes to gain...

I was hoping you would post something like that...
I don't know how old you are, but prior to about the scant last few years the majority of the scarce WEB sites were owned by Corporate America.
There were no Smart devices back in the late 90s.
They had zero to gain because there was no way to get the message out and maintain momentum.
They came...they testified...they left.
There was no other option back then and no FoxNews to hire them.

Bill could never pull his shit again because someone would capture the scumbag in the act.

Huh? There were no scandals before smart devices?

You ever heard of a type of newspaper called a tabloid?

Are you serious? You think this is some kind of gotcha?

As for Bubba. Always said he was a great person but terribly flawed human being.

For a scandal to survive in a world without Smart Devices and Internet requires a press willing to prosecute ad infinitem.
The press loved Clinton and was following the story to boost their ratings.
After Bill won (I voted for him because, well, after Reagan and Bush there was no fucking way I was voting for an R), nobody seemed give a shit anymore and there was no USMB to keep it going.

 

[Indeependent]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:

• The failed Tom Daschle and Bill Richardson Cabinet nominations in 2009
• The BP oil spill in 2010
• Democrats’ loss of the House of Representatives in 2010
• The attack on the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012
• The VA scandal in 2014
• Democratic losses in the 2014 midterms
• The death of two hostages in an operation against al-Qaeda in 2015
• The Syrian government’s atrocities in Aleppo in 2016

Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.

It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.

Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.

and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.

Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).

I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

GW and Obama letting Globalism have it's way pushed the intelligent to vote for Trump.

 

[Coyote]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:

• The failed Tom Daschle and Bill Richardson Cabinet nominations in 2009
• The BP oil spill in 2010
• Democrats’ loss of the House of Representatives in 2010
• The attack on the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012
• The VA scandal in 2014
• Democratic losses in the 2014 midterms
• The death of two hostages in an operation against al-Qaeda in 2015
• The Syrian government’s atrocities in Aleppo in 2016

Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.

It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.

Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.

and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.

Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).

I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

I think you are right - Trump is a reaction to Obama, but what doesn't make sense is Obama did not govern that far left - he was pretty close to center. Even his healthcare policy was a mix of private/public (not one payer). So it puzzles me why he was constantly being labeled "far left radical" by the right. And just for giggles - compare to most of the candidates in the Democratic primary this time around. Anyway - that's a diversion for another thread.

This is a good question: The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

By "don't like them because of what they represent" - do you mean their policies and platform? That would be a fair reason to be critical. If it's simply because of the D or the R in front of their name, then it's pretty partisan.

In my personal view - Trump has done things I wouldn't tolerate in anyone, even if they aligned 100% with my interests.

 

[Indeependent]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:

• The failed Tom Daschle and Bill Richardson Cabinet nominations in 2009
• The BP oil spill in 2010
• Democrats’ loss of the House of Representatives in 2010
• The attack on the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012
• The VA scandal in 2014
• Democratic losses in the 2014 midterms
• The death of two hostages in an operation against al-Qaeda in 2015
• The Syrian government’s atrocities in Aleppo in 2016

Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.

It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.

Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.

and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.

Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).

I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

I think you are right - Trump is a reaction to Obama, but what doesn't make sense is Obama did not govern that far left - he was pretty close to center. Even his healthcare policy was a mix of private/public (not one payer). So it puzzles me why he was constantly being labeled "far left radical" by the right. And just for giggles - compare to most of the candidates in the Democratic primary this time around. Anyway - that's a diversion for another thread.

This is a good question: The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

By "don't like them because of what they represent" - do you mean their policies and platform? That would be a fair reason to be critical. If it's simply because of the D or the R in front of their name, then it's pretty partisan.

In my personal view - Trump has done things I wouldn't tolerate in anyone, even if they aligned 100% with my interests.

Did you expect the media to push the Independent view?
GW, the absolute worst President in US history, is blessed by Rs and Obama, who inherited GW's shit is called the worst President in US history by Rs.
Are you really going to expect reality from medium that needs to sell commercial time to an ideological audience?

 

[Dr Grump]

For a scandal to survive in a world without Smart Devices and Internet requires a press willing to prosecute ad infinitem.
The press loved Clinton and was following the story to boost their ratings.
After Bill won (I voted for him because, well, after Reagan and Bush there was no fucking way I was voting for an R), nobody seemed give a shit anymore and there was no USMB to keep it going.

Huh? They absolutely did go after him? Where were you? "The definition of 'is' is is"? C'mon..scandals are nothing new...They have brought down presidents (Watergate?), movie stars, and other politicians long before there were smart devices and social media.

What I really did notice was the shit hit the fan in US politics when Clinton was elected. Sure, Ronnie Raygun and Carter were given shit, Bush Snr less so. But when the upstart from Arkansas got the nod against the establishment the right went ballistic. Then when Bush jnr came in the left upped the anti. Ditto the right, when Obama came in. It went up another notch when Trump came in. The only one truly deserving of high-end derision is Trump. I was no fan of Bush jnr - too dumb for me and he gave too much power to the neocon cabal of Cheney, Wolfowitz etc., but he didn't break anything and he did an okay job - should have seen the recession coming though. But this guy in the big chair at the moment? I mean, how dumbed down can your politics get. And the alternative is Biden? Out of 330 million Americans? One of the greatest countries on Earth? This all it has? Pahlease....it's embarassing, pathetic and sad.

 

[progressive hunter]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:

• The failed Tom Daschle and Bill Richardson Cabinet nominations in 2009
• The BP oil spill in 2010
• Democrats’ loss of the House of Representatives in 2010
• The attack on the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012
• The VA scandal in 2014
• Democratic losses in the 2014 midterms
• The death of two hostages in an operation against al-Qaeda in 2015
• The Syrian government’s atrocities in Aleppo in 2016

Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.

It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.

Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.

and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.

Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).

I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

I think you are right - Trump is a reaction to Obama, but what doesn't make sense is Obama did not govern that far left - he was pretty close to center. Even his healthcare policy was a mix of private/public (not one payer). So it puzzles me why he was constantly being labeled "far left radical" by the right. And just for giggles - compare to most of the candidates in the Democratic primary this time around. Anyway - that's a diversion for another thread.

This is a good question: The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

By "don't like them because of what they represent" - do you mean their policies and platform? That would be a fair reason to be critical. If it's simply because of the D or the R in front of their name, then it's pretty partisan.

In my personal view - Trump has done things I wouldn't tolerate in anyone, even if they aligned 100% with my interests.

and again you fail to list even one,,,

 

[Clipper]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:

• The failed Tom Daschle and Bill Richardson Cabinet nominations in 2009
• The BP oil spill in 2010
• Democrats’ loss of the House of Representatives in 2010
• The attack on the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012
• The VA scandal in 2014
• Democratic losses in the 2014 midterms
• The death of two hostages in an operation against al-Qaeda in 2015
• The Syrian government’s atrocities in Aleppo in 2016

Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....

But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?

 

[Indeependent]

For a scandal to survive in a world without Smart Devices and Internet requires a press willing to prosecute ad infinitem.
The press loved Clinton and was following the story to boost their ratings.
After Bill won (I voted for him because, well, after Reagan and Bush there was no fucking way I was voting for an R), nobody seemed give a shit anymore and there was no USMB to keep it going.

Huh? They absolutely did go after him? Where were you? "The definition of 'is' is is"? C'mon..scandals are nothing new...They have brought down presidents (Watergate?), movie stars, and other politicians long before there were smart devices and social media.

What I really did notice was the shit hit the fan in US politics when Clinton was elected. Sure, Ronnie Raygun and Carter were given shit, Bush Snr less so. But when the upstart from Arkansas got the nod against the establishment the right went ballistic. Then when Bush jnr came in the left upped the anti. Ditto the right, when Obama came in. It went up another notch when Trump came in. The only one truly deserving of high-end derision is Trump. I was no fan of Bush jnr - too dumb for me and he gave too much power to the neocon cabal of Cheney, Wolfowitz etc., but he didn't break anything and he did an okay job - should have seen the recession coming though. But this guy in the big chair at the moment? I mean, how dumbed down can your politics get. And the alternative is Biden? Out of 330 million Americans? One of the greatest countries on Earth? This all it has? Pahlease....it's embarassing, pathetic and sad.

The US press went after him until the election was over.
The press outside the US may have been different.