Has Trump ever taken responsibility?

iceberg

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
trump says that shit all the time. the whole "self-credit" thing. if it bothers you about trump, why didn't it bother you about obama? lord knows he loved to give himself credit for things. because he said it with prettier words didn't change what he did.

so this goes back to the human aspect of - if you don't like someone you judge them differently. we need to realize that as we go on tirades against people and defend "our own".

are we defending/attacking people, or the actions? we blur that line quite a bit anymore.
 
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Coyote

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.
voting is where things start, to me. if you vote and go back to life as we know it (and 99% of us do) then how are we helping making the very changes we demand others make? how are we then working to bridge this gap between mindsets? a herculean effort that will take a decade to get past, if we ever do. we have one side constantly wishing death on the other side. no one wants to really call those people out cause they'll get yelled at next.

we have to be willing to drop our guard and accept ideas from the other side as valid. i don't see either side doing that and i don't see many people willing to let go of their hate and distrust for the other side. in that mindset, nothing will change regardless of our vote.
I agree, and that is going to be a heavy lift.

To some degree I blame it on the broad spectrum of social media, people don't have to listen to differing points of view anymore - they can choose to plug into echo chambers that reinforce their own bias' and amplify the worst or even distort the other side. Then you become entrenched in an ideological exclusive (not inclusive) tribe.
 
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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
trump says that shit all the time. the whole "self-credit" thing. if it bothers you about trump, why didn't it bother you about obama? lord knows he loved to give himself credit for things. because he said it with prettier words didn't change what he did.

so this goes back to the human aspect of - if you don't like someone you judge them differently. we need to realize that as we go on tirades against people and defend "our own".

are we defending/attacking people, or the actions? we blur that line quite a bit anymore.
His self-crediting doesn't bother me - that's something all presidents do. It's the inability to take responsibility for his actions or policies that led to bad results.
 

iceberg

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
Who's talking about plagues?

This is not about taking responsibility for the pandemic - that's out of anyone's hands. It's overall policies and mistakes and the ability of a leader to take responsibility.

You don't really believe that. Your just still pissed about 2016.
Nope. It has nothing to do with 2016. You guys need to quit using it as an excuse. That's like saying you opposed Obama because he was black.
and? that was the default answer to every time someone opposed obama's policies. cries of racism ran rampant from the left. it was worn like a shield to keep him FROM the very criticism lobbed at trump by the minute.

it is a fact the left started their attack the day trump won. they've made everything an issue or a point of attack and i do mean EVERYTHING. ice cream, fast foot for college athletes, how he says things, and the like. it's been a 24x7 constant barrage on trump.

i said then and you're seeing it now - when/if the day comes these criticisms are in fact warranted, it will be a hard sell because of the fluff-crap the left has been complaining about since day 1. it's a result of your own actions when on one cares about crying WOLF anymore.

we're to that point now. i'd love to think we can talk about trumps actions in a logical manner but we can't. the left makes it emotional and fear driven *every single time*. human nature being what it is, people tune that out and don't really care what side it's coming from, just that the topic is now useless noise.

so yes. it does come back to what they've been doing TO ME since the day he took office. pissed they lost and a refusal to even try to work with him.

queue "but that's what the right did to obama" as invariable that's where we go next.

rinse. repeat.
 

DrLove

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I can't think of a single Dotard FUBAR that he hasn't blamed on somebody else.
This should be entertaining - Maybe in 19 pages I can find one :D
 

iceberg

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
trump says that shit all the time. the whole "self-credit" thing. if it bothers you about trump, why didn't it bother you about obama? lord knows he loved to give himself credit for things. because he said it with prettier words didn't change what he did.

so this goes back to the human aspect of - if you don't like someone you judge them differently. we need to realize that as we go on tirades against people and defend "our own".

are we defending/attacking people, or the actions? we blur that line quite a bit anymore.
His self-crediting doesn't bother me - that's something all presidents do. It's the inability to take responsibility for his actions or policies that led to bad results.
let me hit both and save a reply for later. :)

i agree on social media. in the past the big networks had the handle on things and people hated it. WHAT ARE THEY HIDING they'd cry out and no one would listen. they didn't have the "firepower" to do that.

now put up a wordpress blog, dress it up pretty (like my radio station!) and call yourself an expert. the mindset of reading it = true will follow. til we kill that and we've beaten it near to death so far. but are we at a turning point? hard to say as people still think things are being hidden but their batshit crazy links can reach more people who *react* not *think* (we've already covered that part and this is how mass social media fits into that.

we've got a lot of growing up to do. all of us. but we won't do it by being defensive or with hate. and for all of us, that's going to be a hard change i think we both agree on. but it has to start in our day to day communications. unfortunately you have a lot of "LOUD" people who feel their emotional rages are worth the time of day when in truth, it's just more blind rage as every other day before. we have people in here that ONLY post hate and then we have those who ONLY respond to that.

pretty much how "common average" people seem to want it. if not they'd stop. no one is going to change the other side yet, we won't make the change we demand of others, ourselves. odd.

as for trump - fair point and thanks for clarifying. i've tried to look up trump where he may have taken responsibility and got tired of every rat-shit blogger out there saying TRUMP NEVER DOES IT using only corona as their metric.
 

DrLove

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Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.
You have NOTHING but BLIND HATRED for our wonderful president. It's SO disappointing. President Trump has taken responsibility EVERY day since he beat the Hildebeast in the 2016 election. He's shown MORE leadership than perhaps ANY president before him. It's a shame you can't see this because you've been blinded and brainwashed by our hideously biased media. You ARE a wonderful person, I KNOW this from our conversations, I just wish you could see what an amazing job our president is doing.
You failed to name ONE BAD THING Trump has ever taken responsibility for.
Well, nothing on page one .. :)
 

DrLove

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Well, I do remember him saying he was sorry for the way he talked on the bus when the Access Hollywood tape got leaked.
Maybe, but that was before he told some in his inner circle that he doesn't believe that was his voice. :)
 

DrLove

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Well, I muddle through the first ten pages and have yet to find anything.
Please let me know if there was one I missed. :wink:
 
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Coyote

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
Who's talking about plagues?

This is not about taking responsibility for the pandemic - that's out of anyone's hands. It's overall policies and mistakes and the ability of a leader to take responsibility.

You don't really believe that. Your just still pissed about 2016.
Nope. It has nothing to do with 2016. You guys need to quit using it as an excuse. That's like saying you opposed Obama because he was black.
and? that was the default answer to every time someone opposed obama's policies. cries of racism ran rampant from the left. it was worn like a shield to keep him FROM the very criticism lobbed at trump by the minute.
And - that was kinda the point I was making. When all criticism of Obama gets labeled racist - it's no different than the refrain we hear daily now, that all criticism of Trump is TDS/sour grapes over the election. That is being worn like a shield to deflect criticism of Trump.

it is a fact the left started their attack the day trump won. they've made everything an issue or a point of attack and i do mean EVERYTHING. ice cream, fast foot for college athletes, how he says things, and the like. it's been a 24x7 constant barrage on trump.
Sure. And need I point out that the right hammered Obama from day one? Nooses, hanging black men, vulgar signs, and - don't forget - birtherism. They criticized the way his daughters dressed, healthy eating, Obama's verbal missteps, playing golf etc. Believe me - spent 8 years listening to some pretty grotesque crap.

i said then and you're seeing it now - when/if the day comes these criticisms are in fact warranted, it will be a hard sell because of the fluff-crap the left has been complaining about since day 1. it's a result of your own actions when on one cares about crying WOLF anymore.
I disagree - there have been legitimate criticisms of Trump that are routinely assigned as TDS or ignored. I pointed out some of his policies in this thread (as examples of poorly rolled out or planned, and failing to take responsibility). He won't be held accountable because his base doesn't CARE. The people affected are not one of THEM. Therefore it's just TDS. It's disturbing imo because we should care. We shouldn't applaud the constant lowering of the bar that is happening under Trump.

we're to that point now. i'd love to think we can talk about trumps actions in a logical manner but we can't. the left makes it emotional and fear driven *every single time*. human nature being what it is, people tune that out and don't really care what side it's coming from, just that the topic is now useless noise.
I think we can. I've mentioned specific policies and actions. I am not making it emotional or fear driven.

so yes. it does come back to what they've been doing TO ME since the day he took office. pissed they lost and a refusal to even try to work with him.

queue "but that's what the right did to obama" as invariable that's where we go next.

rinse. repeat.
Well....like you said, they did it to Obama. You have two sets of angry people who felt their chosen representatives were routinely dissed. Where next? :dunno:

Discuss issues and policies - not people. Forget about "what about" as an excuse (hard to do, I admit). Don't label all dissent racist or TDS.
 
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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
trump says that shit all the time. the whole "self-credit" thing. if it bothers you about trump, why didn't it bother you about obama? lord knows he loved to give himself credit for things. because he said it with prettier words didn't change what he did.

so this goes back to the human aspect of - if you don't like someone you judge them differently. we need to realize that as we go on tirades against people and defend "our own".

are we defending/attacking people, or the actions? we blur that line quite a bit anymore.
His self-crediting doesn't bother me - that's something all presidents do. It's the inability to take responsibility for his actions or policies that led to bad results.
let me hit both and save a reply for later. :)

i agree on social media. in the past the big networks had the handle on things and people hated it. WHAT ARE THEY HIDING they'd cry out and no one would listen. they didn't have the "firepower" to do that.

now put up a wordpress blog, dress it up pretty (like my radio station!) and call yourself an expert. the mindset of reading it = true will follow. til we kill that and we've beaten it near to death so far. but are we at a turning point? hard to say as people still think things are being hidden but their batshit crazy links can reach more people who *react* not *think* (we've already covered that part and this is how mass social media fits into that.

we've got a lot of growing up to do. all of us. but we won't do it by being defensive or with hate. and for all of us, that's going to be a hard change i think we both agree on. but it has to start in our day to day communications. unfortunately you have a lot of "LOUD" people who feel their emotional rages are worth the time of day when in truth, it's just more blind rage as every other day before. we have people in here that ONLY post hate and then we have those who ONLY respond to that.

pretty much how "common average" people seem to want it. if not they'd stop. no one is going to change the other side yet, we won't make the change we demand of others, ourselves. odd.

as for trump - fair point and thanks for clarifying. i've tried to look up trump where he may have taken responsibility and got tired of every rat-shit blogger out there saying TRUMP NEVER DOES IT using only corona as their metric.
And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that. Well said post! Wish we had "winner" back!
 

progressive hunter

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
trump says that shit all the time. the whole "self-credit" thing. if it bothers you about trump, why didn't it bother you about obama? lord knows he loved to give himself credit for things. because he said it with prettier words didn't change what he did.

so this goes back to the human aspect of - if you don't like someone you judge them differently. we need to realize that as we go on tirades against people and defend "our own".

are we defending/attacking people, or the actions? we blur that line quite a bit anymore.
His self-crediting doesn't bother me - that's something all presidents do. It's the inability to take responsibility for his actions or policies that led to bad results.
face it,,,you love him and are trying to trick people into thinking people that dont like him are fucking nuts so they vote for him,,,
I see your play,,,,

you want to kiss him and have his baby ,,,
 

Olde Europe

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
 

WTH_Progs?

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Has anyone cited or listed what Trump is supposed to tell us sorry for?

That and the OP is COMPLETELY absurd. Pretty sure Trump knows he's responsibly for leading this country into the right direction (i.e., away from PROG-view) How come the OP doesn't know that?
 

progressive hunter

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Has anyone cited or listed what Trump is supposed to tell us sorry for?

That and the OP is COMPLETELY absurd. Pretty sure Trump knows he's responsibly for leading this country into the right direction (i.e., away from PROG-view) How come the OP doesn't know that?
thats what tells me shes really into trump and trying to trick people into thinking his opponents are nuts,,,

nobody can be that oblivious to reality,,,,well maybe berg80 is
 

Pogo

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Has anyone cited or listed what Trump is supposed to tell us sorry for?

That and the OP is COMPLETELY absurd. Pretty sure Trump knows he's responsibly for leading this country into the right direction (i.e., away from PROG-view) How come the OP doesn't know that?
I don't think the thread is about "sorry" In a sense everything Rump says or does can be called "sorry".

But the thread is asking if anyone can cite an example of Rump taking responsibility. Not the same thing. From the trivially simple, like calling Tim Cook "Tim Apple", to the moderately offensive, like mocking Serge Kovaleski's arthrogryposis, to his gross mishandling of Coronavirus, Rump has not only specifically rejected responsibility for all of them but actively tried to lie his way OUT OF responsibility. Failing to TAKE responsibility is one level, actively lying about it in imagination of an alternate reality where such event becomes an Unevent that never happened, is outright Gaslighting. When you proclaim a sentence on national television, it's on the record, and you *DO* *NOT* get to claim "I never said that" when you get asked about it. That's ludicrous.

Rump of course has made an entire lifestyle out of avoidance of responsibility. Has never held a job. Had children but wouldn't participate in raising them. Got a fake "bone spur" doctor note to get out of the draft. Swears up and down that he "never went bankrupt" after leaving investors holding the bag in Atlantic City and other businesses. Begs off failed ventures with "I didn't run the company, I only licensed my name". Collapsed the USFL. Wouldn't even admit he lost the government suit brought when his apartments were screening out black people. Wouldn't admit he made up fake press agents to plant gossip stories about himself, EVEN AFTER he admitted to it in a court deposition. Not only did he try to make saying "Tim Apple" into an Unevent when it was already right there on video, not only did he claim the word would means the word wouldn't, the exact opposite, and brazenly try to suggest it "should have been obvious" that up means down, which was also captured on videotape, but he even tried to suggest it wasn't his voice on the Access Hollywood tape, which was also on video. He actually thinks he can warp reality simply by willing it to be different. That's how The Bronx became "a very wonderful place in Germany".

That's a bizzaro and mentally sick world of self-delusion, and every time y'all Rumpbots sit on the sidelines jacking off to it and yammering about how the Emperor's new clothes are so magnificent, y'all FEED this shit, enable it, and perpetuate it, so every time y'all waddle in here and try to make excuses for it, you're part of the problem, and the practice can only be called reprehensible.

Short version, just answer one question:
------------ Where is The Bronx?
 

Pogo

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Yes. The only reason any of those other polititions fessed up is because they were found out to soon to come up with a lie. Have you taken YOUR part of the responsibility?
Not necessarily true. Some took responsibility flat out - nothing to do with being "found out" - things went south and they took responsibility. Or, they chose a course of action, fully taking responsibility if it did not go right. And, as was pointed out earlier in the thread - taking responsibility means a bit more than empty words (like a politician after his affair is discovered) - it's about changing or accepting the consequences.

As for my part? Mine is simple. I vote. That's the limit of my responsibility.

Not really. Obamas website failed so badly and so many lies got figured out, like the bronze plan costing $200+ that he had no choice but to not lie. It's like clock work with political types. They screw up, their first instinct is to lie, then the lie I does them. Y'all say Trump was caught in over a thousand lies, yet none of them has been his end. As for your responsibility, you are as culpable as Trump is or I am. Nothing will stop plagues. Nothing. It's a fantasy and a lie to say it can be done.
Who's talking about plagues?

This is not about taking responsibility for the pandemic - that's out of anyone's hands. It's overall policies and mistakes and the ability of a leader to take responsibility.

You don't really believe that. Your just still pissed about 2016.
Nope. It has nothing to do with 2016. You guys need to quit using it as an excuse. That's like saying you opposed Obama because he was black.
and? that was the default answer to every time someone opposed obama's policies. cries of racism ran rampant from the left. it was worn like a shield to keep him FROM the very criticism lobbed at trump by the minute.

it is a fact the left started their attack the day trump won. they've made everything an issue or a point of attack and i do mean EVERYTHING. ice cream, fast foot for college athletes, how he says things, and the like. it's been a 24x7 constant barrage on trump.

i said then and you're seeing it now - when/if the day comes these criticisms are in fact warranted, it will be a hard sell because of the fluff-crap the left has been complaining about since day 1. it's a result of your own actions when on one cares about crying WOLF anymore.

we're to that point now. i'd love to think we can talk about trumps actions in a logical manner but we can't. the left makes it emotional and fear driven *every single time*. human nature being what it is, people tune that out and don't really care what side it's coming from, just that the topic is now useless noise.

so yes. it does come back to what they've been doing TO ME since the day he took office. pissed they lost and a refusal to even try to work with him.

queue "but that's what the right did to obama" as invariable that's where we go next.

rinse. repeat.
Desperation to deflect to the O'bama again duly noted, this thread setting some kinda record for Tu Quoque Fallacies, but just to humor it for the moment ---- please to show the class where O'bama declared anything remotely resembling "I will be the greatest jobs (or any adjective) President God ever created" or "I alone can fix it" or "blood coming out of her wherever" or described his father as having been born in a very wonderful place in Germany. Or alternately please to show us where he sat up all night twitting whiny butthurt about how Bush tapppppppppped his wires, or how he had the hubris to award himself a 10 out of 10 on how he handled ANYTHING, or where he stood in front of a reporter and bald-faced lied about something he had already said on the record.

This bullshit smells way out of date.
 

Pogo

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And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."
Yeah, again:



There's a plethora of statements not taken responsibility for.
 

Pogo

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Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
They have sold their soul, 100%, to this guy. There is zero (0) space between them now. They're all one.
It's not Trump, it's pushback against the left. It's tired of the radical CHANGE EVERYTHINGthe left was doing.

IE... Just this one flag removed. All we want. That set off domino's of NOW CHANGE THIS.

it's getting into arguments on where people pee
It's globalization vs nationalism.


People seem to focus on Trump maybe because they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.
Part of a bigger picture is a president who is able to take responsibility for what happens under his watch. For policy failures, especially those that have led to real harm to people. Part of taking responsibility is also growing as a leader. Obama is one example of a president who initially blamed others, but eventually took responsibility for his mistakes and changed throughout his presidency. He is certainly not unique in that, just conveniently recent. Nor is Trump unique in not taking responsinility. But here is where I think he is unique. Unless there are some examples posted here I have not yet read, Trump has never taken responsibility for bad policy decisions or poorly implemented policies.

Two more exames;
The so-called Muslim ban, who's rollout caught airports, security people and travelers flat footed and left thousands of people stranded around the world and in airports.

Another example, the 100% family seperation policy that led to thousands of children separated from parents, parents who were promised reunion and deportation together if they gave up seeking asylum only to find they were deported and the kids left behind. Now we have children who's parents can not be found and parents who can not find their children. The system was implemented with little forewarning or preparation for shelter and tracking and has been a disaster.

Those two examples are not on the merits of the policies themselves but on the way they were implemented.

Accepting responsibility means learning from mistakes and implies a capacity for introspection and growth that I am not seeing in Trump.
and all that is fine. in a perfect world.

we are so far from it nothing makes sense. we impeach over phone calls with made up evidence. we take a potential SCOTUS to trial for 30 year old "Crimes" that were never proven to be a crime.

my commentary is more outsider looking in not taking a side to bolster against the other. both sides are so riddled with flaws i simply do not understand how either side has a "blind faith" in 1 side over the other.

both sides have a whole lot of positive stuff to offer. they do. we all do.

trump doesn't have shit to do with that no matter how people try to make him OR obama the poster child for everything wrong in the world today.

the problem is. the problem is we repeat news we want to hear and tear into anyone who may say "wait a minute". trump? obama? nope. the problem is we react and don't listen. obama? trump? this is human nature. been saying 90% of the people only think 10% of the time since 1986. again nothing new. but we project everything wrong onto a few for the most part because not many can, or want to, separate emotionally from who we are. we *do* react 99% of the time.

but what gets us out of defense mode and simply into thinking?

i don't think we've found that yet because trump, as with obama, has become the whipping post for the other sides extreme frustrations. as long as we do that, this is the world we get from it.
Good points (though I agree with you on Kavanaugh, I don’t on the substance of the impeachment).

Whipping boys...yes, to a degree, but I think focusing on that distracts from thinking.

If I were to simplify it to it’s lowest common denominators it is these:

1. We no longer share a common set of facts or even agree on what a fact is.

2. Our values and ethics have been completely subsumed by our partisanship. We are willing to elect leaders who will do almost anything to advance an agenda and we are willing to accept almost anything.

3. We are no longer willing to hold them accountable as long as they are advancing our partisan agendas.

4. This is unique to Trump, and the Trump era, but I fear polarized Democrats will follow the precedent: there is no longer any respect for a win win solution. There must be a winner, and there must be a loser, even if it results in a scorched earth policy. And the loser can not just be seen to lose, he must be obliterated.

These are all things that make it increasingly hard to find common ground and increasingly easy to believe the lies that flow our chosen social media feeds.

I can understand the defensiveness of one’s chosen candidate in the face of constant and sometimes fraudulent attack...you want to defend him against what seems unfair. Obama was the first President I voted for that I both genuinely liked and who held many of my same positions. Time has given me the distance to reflect on his presidency. While overall, I rate him as extremely good, there are things not so good such as the drone attacks on sovereign nations, or his attempts to curtail freedom of the press.

Your point about constantly being on the defense, and reacting from that is because we then circle the wagons and defend anything and everything is right on point (mea culpa).
I see Trump as a reaction to Obama. Obama pushed the left to where it's never been before. Trump is the right pushing back.

But I fully agree we need to get our agreed to baseline back. The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.
I think you are right - Trump is a reaction to Obama, but what doesn't make sense is Obama did not govern that far left - he was pretty close to center. Even his healthcare policy was a mix of private/public (not one payer). So it puzzles me why he was constantly being labeled "far left radical" by the right. And just for giggles - compare to most of the candidates in the Democratic primary this time around. Anyway - that's a diversion for another thread.

This is a good question: The question is, are you after someone because you don't like them or what they represent, or did they do something wrong you'd get mad at regardless of who did it.

By "don't like them because of what they represent" - do you mean their policies and platform? That would be a fair reason to be critical. If it's simply because of the D or the R in front of their name, then it's pretty partisan.

In my personal view - Trump has done things I wouldn't tolerate in anyone, even if they aligned 100% with my interests.
Certainly Trump's presence is largely a reaction to Obama, but you're right - Obama didn't govern from nearly far left as talk radio hosts (and therefore Trumpsters) say. He angered the left constantly for NOT doing so, and there are many on the left who feel betrayed today. And they're vociferous about that. Interestingly, the same words could be said about Bill Clinton. Both men knew that there was a TOO FAR left, and they simply didn't go there.

But remember that these folks inhabit a world of simplistic hyperbole. If you're not fully and emotionally devoted to Trump, you're a radical Nazi Hitler Marxist commie (RNHMC) and an active enemy of the country. If you dare to point out Trump's humiliating and childish behaviors, you're an RNHMC. If you point out he communicates at a fourth grade level, you're an RNHMC. If you wish he wouldn't show up and ramble on at those press conferences, you're an RNHMC. And most importantly, if you dare to disagree with or criticize any policy action he takes, you're an ultra double super RNHMC and member of the Fake News Deep State (FNDS).

The bottom line is Trump is simply a symptom of a much larger problem. While I'm not a fan of the guy, I don't hate him. It's the emotional, blind adoration that concerns me.
Hear hear, well spake. It's the blind power of cultism, because cultism will not be persuaded by reality, the most basic truth we have.

A perfect example lies (literally, lies) just a couple of posts above this one in 346:

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:


Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?
Yada, yada, yada............I'm disappointed in you, Hope. You can do SO much better than spewing THIS crap. Better luck next time.....
But, but Trump said "Only I can fix it"! Gee, what the hell happened?
LIAR,,,he never said that,,,
“No one knows the system better than me,” he said. “That’s why only I can fix it.”
fake news,,,

Here's a cultist poster who alleges "he never said that", then is served documented proof that he did say exactly that, and STILL in spite of the record, claims it's not there. And that one too is on video.

When a cult follower willingly suspends all belief in reality, there is no ground any more, there is no reason. There is no rationality in "Ignorance is Strength". If there was, Orwell would not have needed to write a warning about it.
 

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