Has Our Republic Died?

[gipper]

The OP makes a very compelling case not to vote for Trump. All he wrote applies to Trump and no one else. No modern President has ever done more to divide and bring our fair Republic to the brink of collapse than Trump himself.

We’ve had many divisive presidents. Trump is certainly one of the worst, but Ears was damn near as bad. You can bet Senile Joe will be just as bad.

“He talks mean and it hurts my feelings”

Which of Trumps policies are “divisive”?
(Watch this folks, this simple question never gets answered appropriately.)

Let me know if I need to post the list of the Kenyan Kings divisive policies.

Really? Blind!

The “Blind” call Trump divisive yet can’t point to his policies that manifest and foster division.
You might be “blind”.

They do point them out, but you’re incapable of comprehending due to that silly partisan thing you got going.

 

[BrokeLoser]

The OP makes a very compelling case not to vote for Trump. All he wrote applies to Trump and no one else. No modern President has ever done more to divide and bring our fair Republic to the brink of collapse than Trump himself.

We’ve had many divisive presidents. Trump is certainly one of the worst, but Ears was damn near as bad. You can bet Senile Joe will be just as bad.

“He talks mean and it hurts my feelings”

Which of Trumps policies are “divisive”?
(Watch this folks, this simple question never gets answered appropriately.)

Let me know if I need to post the list of the Kenyan Kings divisive policies.

Really? Blind!

The “Blind” call Trump divisive yet can’t point to his policies that manifest and foster division.
You might be “blind”.

They do point them out, but you’re incapable of comprehending due to that silly partisan thing you got going.

Cool...point them out for the others following this thread that think you are a confused idiot.
We’ll be standing by.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Anarchy is much better than what we have now. It’s not even close.

Anarchy is better? Anarchy without a Republic? Truly without government at all?

The American people — probably any people in the modern world — would much prefer dictatorship to anarchy. Even a hint of televised anarchy on the streets of a distant city get many Americans screaming for police crackdowns and voting for an authoritarian demagogue like Trump! Or are you for the anarchy of uncontrolled militia fighting it out on the streets. Yes, as in Somalia!

You are talking nonsense.

It takes thinking outside the ruling class’ box most of us put ourselves in. It’s a different way of thinking and lord knows we need something different. Doing the same thing expecting a different result, is you know what.

You need to research the many meanings of anarchy. It doesn’t have to be chaos or survival of the fittest.

Anarchy can only exist for a moment. Once we have it, the bad guys organize to plunder producers. Producers organize to defend themselves. Then we have government again.

Most of us aren't big on the idea of spending our entire lives within a half mile of where we are born or sitting in a tower all day with a gun to protect our family and our property either

As much as I disagree with you on most everything else politically, here at least we are in accord.

I believe “Government” is increasingly necessary — though most Americans refuse to accept this fact. The same is true about international rules of trade and international organization. We should strive to preserve local decision making and entrepreneurship wherever possible — and it is often entirely possible — and of course we must always preserve individual human rights. But capitalism has also brought about a new inescapable reality of increasingly enmeshed global economies.

To put things in your terms: Most “producers” are no longer farmers working the land. Most of us work for wages and we produce goods or services as workers. Same everywhere, including even China. Are “the producers” the owners of great corporations or the workers in them? You seem to see government as always plundering producers, but state capitalist institutions can also produce (think of China), though in the U.S. they usually produce mostly implements of war and are state funded but allow profits to go into private hands. Corporations, Banks & Wall Street also produce money profits — “wealth.” They are producers of many goods, but also “plunder” the environment, destabilize society and require bailouts from the state. It isn’t easy distinguishing “real producers” from speculators and money movers in a capitalist economy like the U.S.

In asking whether our Republic — or Empire — is dead or dying, to concentrate on partisan politics or to abstractly blame “government” ... is to miss the main point in my view. We need to ask deeper questions that get at the process that is occurring. Has our Republic already become largely a government “Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations”? Can it thrive or even survive if society is increasingly polarized between stock-owning haves and have nots? Both mainstream parties raise phoney issues that divide our people, but the reality of real existing capitalism and world competition and world trade should never be ignored.

These issues I tried to raise earlier:

Has Our Republic Died?

We are at a point in our Republic that leads me to believe it is about to die if it has not already. Joe Biden is accused of Committing Treason while he was a sitting Vice President and our media refuses to cover the story. Hard evidence of Joe committing Treason and giving up secrets to China...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[gipper]

Anarchy is much better than what we have now. It’s not even close.

Anarchy is better? Anarchy without a Republic? Truly without government at all?

The American people — probably any people in the modern world — would much prefer dictatorship to anarchy. Even a hint of televised anarchy on the streets of a distant city get many Americans screaming for police crackdowns and voting for an authoritarian demagogue like Trump! Or are you for the anarchy of uncontrolled militia fighting it out on the streets. Yes, as in Somalia!

You are talking nonsense.

It takes thinking outside the ruling class’ box most of us put ourselves in. It’s a different way of thinking and lord knows we need something different. Doing the same thing expecting a different result, is you know what.

You need to research the many meanings of anarchy. It doesn’t have to be chaos or survival of the fittest.

Anarchy can only exist for a moment. Once we have it, the bad guys organize to plunder producers. Producers organize to defend themselves. Then we have government again.

Most of us aren't big on the idea of spending our entire lives within a half mile of where we are born or sitting in a tower all day with a gun to protect our family and our property either

As much as I disagree with you on most everything else politically, here at least we are in accord.

I believe “Government” is increasingly necessary — though most Americans refuse to accept this fact. The same is true about international rules of trade and international organization. We should strive to preserve local decision making and entrepreneurship wherever possible — and it is often entirely possible — and of course we must always preserve individual human rights. But capitalism has also brought about a new inescapable reality of increasingly enmeshed global economies.

To put things in your terms: Most “producers” are no longer farmers working the land. Most of us work for wages and we produce goods or services as workers. Same everywhere, including even China. Are “the producers” the owners of great corporations or the workers in them? You seem to see government as always plundering producers, but state capitalist institutions can also produce (think of China), though in the U.S. they usually produce mostly implements of war and are state funded but allow profits to go into private hands. Corporations, Banks & Wall Street also produce money profits — “wealth.” They are producers of many goods, but also “plunder” the environment, destabilize society and require bailouts from the state. It isn’t easy distinguishing “real producers” from speculators and money movers in a capitalist economy like the U.S.

In asking whether our Republic — or Empire — is dead or dying, to concentrate on partisan politics or to abstractly blame “government” ... is to miss the main point in my view. We need to ask deeper questions that get at the process that is occurring. Has our Republic already become largely a government “Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations”? Can it thrive or even survive if society is increasingly polarized between stock-owning haves and have nots? Both mainstream parties raise phoney issues that divide our people, but the reality of real existing capitalism and world competition and world trade should never be ignored.

These issues I tried to raise earlier:

Has Our Republic Died?

We are at a point in our Republic that leads me to believe it is about to die if it has not already. Joe Biden is accused of Committing Treason while he was a sitting Vice President and our media refuses to cover the story. Hard evidence of Joe committing Treason and giving up secrets to China...

www.usmessageboard.com

The problem with government as it’s structured today, is it doesn’t work for the majority of the people. We have several thousand years of history proving this. Time to think outside the box and do it differently.

 

[kaz]

Anarchy is much better than what we have now. It’s not even close.

Anarchy is better? Anarchy without a Republic? Truly without government at all?

The American people — probably any people in the modern world — would much prefer dictatorship to anarchy. Even a hint of televised anarchy on the streets of a distant city get many Americans screaming for police crackdowns and voting for an authoritarian demagogue like Trump! Or are you for the anarchy of uncontrolled militia fighting it out on the streets. Yes, as in Somalia!

You are talking nonsense.

It takes thinking outside the ruling class’ box most of us put ourselves in. It’s a different way of thinking and lord knows we need something different. Doing the same thing expecting a different result, is you know what.

You need to research the many meanings of anarchy. It doesn’t have to be chaos or survival of the fittest.

Anarchy can only exist for a moment. Once we have it, the bad guys organize to plunder producers. Producers organize to defend themselves. Then we have government again.

Most of us aren't big on the idea of spending our entire lives within a half mile of where we are born or sitting in a tower all day with a gun to protect our family and our property either

As much as I disagree with you on most everything else politically, here at least we are in accord.

I believe “Government” is increasingly necessary — though most Americans refuse to accept this fact. The same is true about international rules of trade and international organization. We should strive to preserve local decision making and entrepreneurship wherever possible — and it is often entirely possible — and of course we must always preserve individual human rights. But capitalism has also brought about a new inescapable reality of increasingly enmeshed global economies.

To put things in your terms: Most “producers” are no longer farmers working the land. Most of us work for wages and we produce goods or services as workers. Same everywhere, including even China. Are “the producers” the owners of great corporations or the workers in them? You seem to see government as always plundering producers, but state capitalist institutions can also produce (think of China), though in the U.S. they usually produce mostly implements of war and are state funded but allow profits to go into private hands. Corporations, Banks & Wall Street also produce money profits — “wealth.” They are producers of many goods, but also “plunder” the environment, destabilize society and require bailouts from the state. It isn’t easy distinguishing “real producers” from speculators and money movers in a capitalist economy like the U.S.

In asking whether our Republic — or Empire — is dead or dying, to concentrate on partisan politics or to abstractly blame “government” ... is to miss the main point in my view. We need to ask deeper questions that get at the process that is occurring. Has our Republic already become largely a government “Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations”? Can it thrive or even survive if society is increasingly polarized between stock-owning haves and have nots? Both mainstream parties raise phoney issues that divide our people, but the reality of real existing capitalism and world competition and world trade should never be ignored.

These issues I tried to raise earlier:

Has Our Republic Died?

We are at a point in our Republic that leads me to believe it is about to die if it has not already. Joe Biden is accused of Committing Treason while he was a sitting Vice President and our media refuses to cover the story. Hard evidence of Joe committing Treason and giving up secrets to China...

www.usmessageboard.com

The problem with government as it’s structured today, is it doesn’t work for the majority of the people. We have several thousand years of history proving this. Time to think outside the box and do it differently.

Yes. What we are doing in this country is clearly no longer working.

As Alexander Frasier Tytler observed, a democracy lasts about 200 years. Then it's overrun by greedy Democrats voting for free shit

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Anarchy is much better than what we have now. It’s not even close.

Anarchy is better? Anarchy without a Republic? Truly without government at all?

The American people — probably any people in the modern world — would much prefer dictatorship to anarchy. Even a hint of televised anarchy on the streets of a distant city get many Americans screaming for police crackdowns and voting for an authoritarian demagogue like Trump! Or are you for the anarchy of uncontrolled militia fighting it out on the streets. Yes, as in Somalia!

You are talking nonsense.

It takes thinking outside the ruling class’ box most of us put ourselves in. It’s a different way of thinking and lord knows we need something different. Doing the same thing expecting a different result, is you know what.

You need to research the many meanings of anarchy. It doesn’t have to be chaos or survival of the fittest.

Anarchy can only exist for a moment. Once we have it, the bad guys organize to plunder producers. Producers organize to defend themselves. Then we have government again.

Most of us aren't big on the idea of spending our entire lives within a half mile of where we are born or sitting in a tower all day with a gun to protect our family and our property either

As much as I disagree with you on most everything else politically, here at least we are in accord.

I believe “Government” is increasingly necessary — though most Americans refuse to accept this fact. The same is true about international rules of trade and international organization. We should strive to preserve local decision making and entrepreneurship wherever possible — and it is often entirely possible — and of course we must always preserve individual human rights. But capitalism has also brought about a new inescapable reality of increasingly enmeshed global economies.

To put things in your terms: Most “producers” are no longer farmers working the land. Most of us work for wages and we produce goods or services as workers. Same everywhere, including even China. Are “the producers” the owners of great corporations or the workers in them? You seem to see government as always plundering producers, but state capitalist institutions can also produce (think of China), though in the U.S. they usually produce mostly implements of war and are state funded but allow profits to go into private hands. Corporations, Banks & Wall Street also produce money profits — “wealth.” They are producers of many goods, but also “plunder” the environment, destabilize society and require bailouts from the state. It isn’t easy distinguishing “real producers” from speculators and money movers in a capitalist economy like the U.S.

In asking whether our Republic — or Empire — is dead or dying, to concentrate on partisan politics or to abstractly blame “government” ... is to miss the main point in my view. We need to ask deeper questions that get at the process that is occurring. Has our Republic already become largely a government “Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations”? Can it thrive or even survive if society is increasingly polarized between stock-owning haves and have nots? Both mainstream parties raise phoney issues that divide our people, but the reality of real existing capitalism and world competition and world trade should never be ignored.

These issues I tried to raise earlier:

Has Our Republic Died?

We are at a point in our Republic that leads me to believe it is about to die if it has not already. Joe Biden is accused of Committing Treason while he was a sitting Vice President and our media refuses to cover the story. Hard evidence of Joe committing Treason and giving up secrets to China...

www.usmessageboard.com

The problem with government as it’s structured today, is it doesn’t work for the majority of the people. We have several thousand years of history proving this. Time to think outside the box and do it differently.

Yes. What we are doing in this country is clearly no longer working.

As Alexander Frasier Tytler observed, a democracy lasts about 200 years. Then it's overrun by greedy Democrats voting for free shit

Ronald Reagan was apparently the source of your referenced popular meme mistakenly quoting Sir Alexander Frazier Tytler (sometimes it’s credited to de Tocqueville, or Jefferson or even Ben Franklin). The good Scottish Lord did indeed denigrate representative Republics (like the new North American Republic), though he mostly wrote and taught about the pure (slave) “democracies” of antiquity. His views on 200-year cycles of “rise and decline,” “heroic ages” and degeneration, applied to civilizations rather than to modern forms of government, and he of course did not write about problems of post-industrial capitalism or modern political parties.

Here is a more-or-less Democratic Party style rejoinder to the “makers and takers” dichotomy so popular with modern Republicans. It even discusses the Tytler meme you mention:

Republicans Still Believe It's 'Makers' Versus 'Takers'

Republicans Still Believe It's 'Makers' Versus 'Takers'

www.bloombergquint.com

 

[kaz]

Anarchy is much better than what we have now. It’s not even close.

Anarchy is better? Anarchy without a Republic? Truly without government at all?

The American people — probably any people in the modern world — would much prefer dictatorship to anarchy. Even a hint of televised anarchy on the streets of a distant city get many Americans screaming for police crackdowns and voting for an authoritarian demagogue like Trump! Or are you for the anarchy of uncontrolled militia fighting it out on the streets. Yes, as in Somalia!

You are talking nonsense.

It takes thinking outside the ruling class’ box most of us put ourselves in. It’s a different way of thinking and lord knows we need something different. Doing the same thing expecting a different result, is you know what.

You need to research the many meanings of anarchy. It doesn’t have to be chaos or survival of the fittest.

Anarchy can only exist for a moment. Once we have it, the bad guys organize to plunder producers. Producers organize to defend themselves. Then we have government again.

Most of us aren't big on the idea of spending our entire lives within a half mile of where we are born or sitting in a tower all day with a gun to protect our family and our property either

As much as I disagree with you on most everything else politically, here at least we are in accord.

I believe “Government” is increasingly necessary — though most Americans refuse to accept this fact. The same is true about international rules of trade and international organization. We should strive to preserve local decision making and entrepreneurship wherever possible — and it is often entirely possible — and of course we must always preserve individual human rights. But capitalism has also brought about a new inescapable reality of increasingly enmeshed global economies.

To put things in your terms: Most “producers” are no longer farmers working the land. Most of us work for wages and we produce goods or services as workers. Same everywhere, including even China. Are “the producers” the owners of great corporations or the workers in them? You seem to see government as always plundering producers, but state capitalist institutions can also produce (think of China), though in the U.S. they usually produce mostly implements of war and are state funded but allow profits to go into private hands. Corporations, Banks & Wall Street also produce money profits — “wealth.” They are producers of many goods, but also “plunder” the environment, destabilize society and require bailouts from the state. It isn’t easy distinguishing “real producers” from speculators and money movers in a capitalist economy like the U.S.

In asking whether our Republic — or Empire — is dead or dying, to concentrate on partisan politics or to abstractly blame “government” ... is to miss the main point in my view. We need to ask deeper questions that get at the process that is occurring. Has our Republic already become largely a government “Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations”? Can it thrive or even survive if society is increasingly polarized between stock-owning haves and have nots? Both mainstream parties raise phoney issues that divide our people, but the reality of real existing capitalism and world competition and world trade should never be ignored.

These issues I tried to raise earlier:

Has Our Republic Died?

We are at a point in our Republic that leads me to believe it is about to die if it has not already. Joe Biden is accused of Committing Treason while he was a sitting Vice President and our media refuses to cover the story. Hard evidence of Joe committing Treason and giving up secrets to China...

www.usmessageboard.com

The problem with government as it’s structured today, is it doesn’t work for the majority of the people. We have several thousand years of history proving this. Time to think outside the box and do it differently.

Yes. What we are doing in this country is clearly no longer working.

As Alexander Frasier Tytler observed, a democracy lasts about 200 years. Then it's overrun by greedy Democrats voting for free shit

Ronald Reagan was apparently the source of your referenced popular meme mistakenly quoting Sir Alexander Frazier Tytler (sometimes it’s credited to de Tocqueville, or Jefferson or even Ben Franklin). The good Scottish Lord did indeed denigrate representative Republics (like the new North American Republic), though he mostly wrote and taught about the pure (slave) “democracies” of antiquity. His views on 200-year cycles of “rise and decline,” “heroic ages” and degeneration, applied to civilizations rather than to modern forms of government, and he of course did not write about problems of post-industrial capitalism or modern political parties.

Here is a more-or-less Democratic Party style rejoinder to the “makers and takers” dichotomy so popular with modern Republicans. It even discusses the Tytler meme you mention:

Republicans Still Believe It's 'Makers' Versus 'Takers'

Republicans Still Believe It's 'Makers' Versus 'Takers'

www.bloombergquint.com

Lots of quotes on the Internet are misattributed. But it's still out there under him, I didn't make it up.

It's good to know it's in question, but it doesn't change the point. Democrats have found the fountain of money and they plan to milk it for what they can get from it

 

[gipper]

Anarchy is much better than what we have now. It’s not even close.

Anarchy is better? Anarchy without a Republic? Truly without government at all?

The American people — probably any people in the modern world — would much prefer dictatorship to anarchy. Even a hint of televised anarchy on the streets of a distant city get many Americans screaming for police crackdowns and voting for an authoritarian demagogue like Trump! Or are you for the anarchy of uncontrolled militia fighting it out on the streets. Yes, as in Somalia!

You are talking nonsense.

It takes thinking outside the ruling class’ box most of us put ourselves in. It’s a different way of thinking and lord knows we need something different. Doing the same thing expecting a different result, is you know what.

You need to research the many meanings of anarchy. It doesn’t have to be chaos or survival of the fittest.

Anarchy can only exist for a moment. Once we have it, the bad guys organize to plunder producers. Producers organize to defend themselves. Then we have government again.

Most of us aren't big on the idea of spending our entire lives within a half mile of where we are born or sitting in a tower all day with a gun to protect our family and our property either

As much as I disagree with you on most everything else politically, here at least we are in accord.

I believe “Government” is increasingly necessary — though most Americans refuse to accept this fact. The same is true about international rules of trade and international organization. We should strive to preserve local decision making and entrepreneurship wherever possible — and it is often entirely possible — and of course we must always preserve individual human rights. But capitalism has also brought about a new inescapable reality of increasingly enmeshed global economies.

To put things in your terms: Most “producers” are no longer farmers working the land. Most of us work for wages and we produce goods or services as workers. Same everywhere, including even China. Are “the producers” the owners of great corporations or the workers in them? You seem to see government as always plundering producers, but state capitalist institutions can also produce (think of China), though in the U.S. they usually produce mostly implements of war and are state funded but allow profits to go into private hands. Corporations, Banks & Wall Street also produce money profits — “wealth.” They are producers of many goods, but also “plunder” the environment, destabilize society and require bailouts from the state. It isn’t easy distinguishing “real producers” from speculators and money movers in a capitalist economy like the U.S.

In asking whether our Republic — or Empire — is dead or dying, to concentrate on partisan politics or to abstractly blame “government” ... is to miss the main point in my view. We need to ask deeper questions that get at the process that is occurring. Has our Republic already become largely a government “Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations”? Can it thrive or even survive if society is increasingly polarized between stock-owning haves and have nots? Both mainstream parties raise phoney issues that divide our people, but the reality of real existing capitalism and world competition and world trade should never be ignored.

These issues I tried to raise earlier:

Has Our Republic Died?

We are at a point in our Republic that leads me to believe it is about to die if it has not already. Joe Biden is accused of Committing Treason while he was a sitting Vice President and our media refuses to cover the story. Hard evidence of Joe committing Treason and giving up secrets to China...

www.usmessageboard.com

The problem with government as it’s structured today, is it doesn’t work for the majority of the people. We have several thousand years of history proving this. Time to think outside the box and do it differently.

Yes. What we are doing in this country is clearly no longer working.

As Alexander Frasier Tytler observed, a democracy lasts about 200 years. Then it's overrun by greedy Democrats voting for free shit

I don’t believe that’s the way a democracy degenerates. It certainly isn’t how ours is. It’s the ultra wealthy who are and have been destroying the nation. Their greed and iron grip on politicians and government bureaucrats, is the problem.

 

[kaz]

Anarchy is much better than what we have now. It’s not even close.

Anarchy is better? Anarchy without a Republic? Truly without government at all?

The American people — probably any people in the modern world — would much prefer dictatorship to anarchy. Even a hint of televised anarchy on the streets of a distant city get many Americans screaming for police crackdowns and voting for an authoritarian demagogue like Trump! Or are you for the anarchy of uncontrolled militia fighting it out on the streets. Yes, as in Somalia!

You are talking nonsense.

It takes thinking outside the ruling class’ box most of us put ourselves in. It’s a different way of thinking and lord knows we need something different. Doing the same thing expecting a different result, is you know what.

You need to research the many meanings of anarchy. It doesn’t have to be chaos or survival of the fittest.

Anarchy can only exist for a moment. Once we have it, the bad guys organize to plunder producers. Producers organize to defend themselves. Then we have government again.

Most of us aren't big on the idea of spending our entire lives within a half mile of where we are born or sitting in a tower all day with a gun to protect our family and our property either

As much as I disagree with you on most everything else politically, here at least we are in accord.

I believe “Government” is increasingly necessary — though most Americans refuse to accept this fact. The same is true about international rules of trade and international organization. We should strive to preserve local decision making and entrepreneurship wherever possible — and it is often entirely possible — and of course we must always preserve individual human rights. But capitalism has also brought about a new inescapable reality of increasingly enmeshed global economies.

To put things in your terms: Most “producers” are no longer farmers working the land. Most of us work for wages and we produce goods or services as workers. Same everywhere, including even China. Are “the producers” the owners of great corporations or the workers in them? You seem to see government as always plundering producers, but state capitalist institutions can also produce (think of China), though in the U.S. they usually produce mostly implements of war and are state funded but allow profits to go into private hands. Corporations, Banks & Wall Street also produce money profits — “wealth.” They are producers of many goods, but also “plunder” the environment, destabilize society and require bailouts from the state. It isn’t easy distinguishing “real producers” from speculators and money movers in a capitalist economy like the U.S.

In asking whether our Republic — or Empire — is dead or dying, to concentrate on partisan politics or to abstractly blame “government” ... is to miss the main point in my view. We need to ask deeper questions that get at the process that is occurring. Has our Republic already become largely a government “Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations”? Can it thrive or even survive if society is increasingly polarized between stock-owning haves and have nots? Both mainstream parties raise phoney issues that divide our people, but the reality of real existing capitalism and world competition and world trade should never be ignored.

These issues I tried to raise earlier:

Has Our Republic Died?

We are at a point in our Republic that leads me to believe it is about to die if it has not already. Joe Biden is accused of Committing Treason while he was a sitting Vice President and our media refuses to cover the story. Hard evidence of Joe committing Treason and giving up secrets to China...

www.usmessageboard.com

The problem with government as it’s structured today, is it doesn’t work for the majority of the people. We have several thousand years of history proving this. Time to think outside the box and do it differently.

Yes. What we are doing in this country is clearly no longer working.

As Alexander Frasier Tytler observed, a democracy lasts about 200 years. Then it's overrun by greedy Democrats voting for free shit

I don’t believe that’s the way a democracy degenerates. It certainly isn’t how ours is. It’s the ultra wealthy who are and have been destroying the nation. Their greed and iron grip on politicians and government bureaucrats, is the problem.

So Democrats are overrunning the system with handouts and government spending and you think the problem is the people they are robbing to do it. Well, that makes a lot of sense. That was sarcasm, FYI

 

[gipper]

Anarchy is much better than what we have now. It’s not even close.

Anarchy is better? Anarchy without a Republic? Truly without government at all?

The American people — probably any people in the modern world — would much prefer dictatorship to anarchy. Even a hint of televised anarchy on the streets of a distant city get many Americans screaming for police crackdowns and voting for an authoritarian demagogue like Trump! Or are you for the anarchy of uncontrolled militia fighting it out on the streets. Yes, as in Somalia!

You are talking nonsense.

It takes thinking outside the ruling class’ box most of us put ourselves in. It’s a different way of thinking and lord knows we need something different. Doing the same thing expecting a different result, is you know what.

You need to research the many meanings of anarchy. It doesn’t have to be chaos or survival of the fittest.

Anarchy can only exist for a moment. Once we have it, the bad guys organize to plunder producers. Producers organize to defend themselves. Then we have government again.

Most of us aren't big on the idea of spending our entire lives within a half mile of where we are born or sitting in a tower all day with a gun to protect our family and our property either

As much as I disagree with you on most everything else politically, here at least we are in accord.

I believe “Government” is increasingly necessary — though most Americans refuse to accept this fact. The same is true about international rules of trade and international organization. We should strive to preserve local decision making and entrepreneurship wherever possible — and it is often entirely possible — and of course we must always preserve individual human rights. But capitalism has also brought about a new inescapable reality of increasingly enmeshed global economies.

To put things in your terms: Most “producers” are no longer farmers working the land. Most of us work for wages and we produce goods or services as workers. Same everywhere, including even China. Are “the producers” the owners of great corporations or the workers in them? You seem to see government as always plundering producers, but state capitalist institutions can also produce (think of China), though in the U.S. they usually produce mostly implements of war and are state funded but allow profits to go into private hands. Corporations, Banks & Wall Street also produce money profits — “wealth.” They are producers of many goods, but also “plunder” the environment, destabilize society and require bailouts from the state. It isn’t easy distinguishing “real producers” from speculators and money movers in a capitalist economy like the U.S.

In asking whether our Republic — or Empire — is dead or dying, to concentrate on partisan politics or to abstractly blame “government” ... is to miss the main point in my view. We need to ask deeper questions that get at the process that is occurring. Has our Republic already become largely a government “Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations”? Can it thrive or even survive if society is increasingly polarized between stock-owning haves and have nots? Both mainstream parties raise phoney issues that divide our people, but the reality of real existing capitalism and world competition and world trade should never be ignored.

These issues I tried to raise earlier:

Has Our Republic Died?

We are at a point in our Republic that leads me to believe it is about to die if it has not already. Joe Biden is accused of Committing Treason while he was a sitting Vice President and our media refuses to cover the story. Hard evidence of Joe committing Treason and giving up secrets to China...

www.usmessageboard.com

The problem with government as it’s structured today, is it doesn’t work for the majority of the people. We have several thousand years of history proving this. Time to think outside the box and do it differently.

Yes. What we are doing in this country is clearly no longer working.

As Alexander Frasier Tytler observed, a democracy lasts about 200 years. Then it's overrun by greedy Democrats voting for free shit

I don’t believe that’s the way a democracy degenerates. It certainly isn’t how ours is. It’s the ultra wealthy who are and have been destroying the nation. Their greed and iron grip on politicians and government bureaucrats, is the problem.

So Democrats are overrunning the system with handouts and government spending and you think the problem is the people they are robbing to do it. Well, that makes a lot of sense. That was sarcasm, FYI

That’s a falsehood promoted by the establishment. Millions of Americans live in or near poverty, while government showers the ultra wealthy with unbelievable benefits.

 

[JoeB131]

You literally just argued that our choices are Marxism or anarchy,

I said nothing of the sort... but the problem is, you see even the smallest government as "Marxism".

You are talking nonsense.

He does that a lot.

 

[kaz]

Anarchy is much better than what we have now. It’s not even close.

Anarchy is better? Anarchy without a Republic? Truly without government at all?

The American people — probably any people in the modern world — would much prefer dictatorship to anarchy. Even a hint of televised anarchy on the streets of a distant city get many Americans screaming for police crackdowns and voting for an authoritarian demagogue like Trump! Or are you for the anarchy of uncontrolled militia fighting it out on the streets. Yes, as in Somalia!

You are talking nonsense.

It takes thinking outside the ruling class’ box most of us put ourselves in. It’s a different way of thinking and lord knows we need something different. Doing the same thing expecting a different result, is you know what.

You need to research the many meanings of anarchy. It doesn’t have to be chaos or survival of the fittest.

Anarchy can only exist for a moment. Once we have it, the bad guys organize to plunder producers. Producers organize to defend themselves. Then we have government again.

Most of us aren't big on the idea of spending our entire lives within a half mile of where we are born or sitting in a tower all day with a gun to protect our family and our property either

As much as I disagree with you on most everything else politically, here at least we are in accord.

I believe “Government” is increasingly necessary — though most Americans refuse to accept this fact. The same is true about international rules of trade and international organization. We should strive to preserve local decision making and entrepreneurship wherever possible — and it is often entirely possible — and of course we must always preserve individual human rights. But capitalism has also brought about a new inescapable reality of increasingly enmeshed global economies.

To put things in your terms: Most “producers” are no longer farmers working the land. Most of us work for wages and we produce goods or services as workers. Same everywhere, including even China. Are “the producers” the owners of great corporations or the workers in them? You seem to see government as always plundering producers, but state capitalist institutions can also produce (think of China), though in the U.S. they usually produce mostly implements of war and are state funded but allow profits to go into private hands. Corporations, Banks & Wall Street also produce money profits — “wealth.” They are producers of many goods, but also “plunder” the environment, destabilize society and require bailouts from the state. It isn’t easy distinguishing “real producers” from speculators and money movers in a capitalist economy like the U.S.

In asking whether our Republic — or Empire — is dead or dying, to concentrate on partisan politics or to abstractly blame “government” ... is to miss the main point in my view. We need to ask deeper questions that get at the process that is occurring. Has our Republic already become largely a government “Of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations”? Can it thrive or even survive if society is increasingly polarized between stock-owning haves and have nots? Both mainstream parties raise phoney issues that divide our people, but the reality of real existing capitalism and world competition and world trade should never be ignored.

These issues I tried to raise earlier:

Has Our Republic Died?

We are at a point in our Republic that leads me to believe it is about to die if it has not already. Joe Biden is accused of Committing Treason while he was a sitting Vice President and our media refuses to cover the story. Hard evidence of Joe committing Treason and giving up secrets to China...

www.usmessageboard.com

The problem with government as it’s structured today, is it doesn’t work for the majority of the people. We have several thousand years of history proving this. Time to think outside the box and do it differently.

Yes. What we are doing in this country is clearly no longer working.

As Alexander Frasier Tytler observed, a democracy lasts about 200 years. Then it's overrun by greedy Democrats voting for free shit

I don’t believe that’s the way a democracy degenerates. It certainly isn’t how ours is. It’s the ultra wealthy who are and have been destroying the nation. Their greed and iron grip on politicians and government bureaucrats, is the problem.

So Democrats are overrunning the system with handouts and government spending and you think the problem is the people they are robbing to do it. Well, that makes a lot of sense. That was sarcasm, FYI

That’s a falsehood promoted by the establishment. Millions of Americans live in or near poverty, while government showers the ultra wealthy with unbelievable benefits.

You don't think government is taking in and redistributing money everywhere, only to the "ultra wealthy????"

 

[kaz]

You literally just argued that our choices are Marxism or anarchy,

I said nothing of the sort... but the problem is, you see even the smallest government as "Marxism".

You are talking nonsense.

He does that a lot.

I said the US government is ignoring its Constitutional limits and to you told me my only other alternative was anarchy.

Cut the bull, you clearly did say that. Here you go, liar

Ahhhh.... Libertarian Crazy at it's very finest. Civilization can happen without government and taxes.

My choices are not Marxism and anarchy. Just more of your hyperbole bull crap. You're unable to think in any terms but black and white

 

[JoeB131]

I said the US government is ignoring its Constitutional limits and to you told me my only other alternative was anarchy.

Which isn't Marxism... It's a recognition that we shouldn't limit ourselves to the thinking of 18th century slave rapists on what the role of government is.

The Founding Slave Owners shit in chamber Pots and thought that bleeding people was a good treatment for disease.

Personally, I'd like to see a constitutional convention and start over again... create a modern constitution for a modern state. But that's just me.

My choices are not Marxism and anarchy. Just more of your hyperbole bull crap. You're unable to think in any terms but black and white

I'm able to think in terms of the real world. The only time you Libetarians get any votes is when someone wants to protest the two major parties... and don't think their vote will count.

 

[kaz]

I said the US government is ignoring its Constitutional limits and to you told me my only other alternative was anarchy.

Which isn't Marxism... It's a recognition that we shouldn't limit ourselves to the thinking of 18th century slave rapists on what the role of government is.

The Founding Slave Owners shit in chamber Pots and thought that bleeding people was a good treatment for disease.

Personally, I'd like to see a constitutional convention and start over again... create a modern constitution for a modern state. But that's just me.

Where the fuck do you get slavery in this? You need your head examined. And it's clearly Marxism you idiots are after now. Just read the communist manifesto and listen to any of the Democrats in DC

My choices are not Marxism and anarchy. Just more of your hyperbole bull crap. You're unable to think in any terms but black and white

I'm able to think in terms of the real world. The only time you Libetarians get any votes is when someone wants to protest the two major parties... and don't think their vote will count.

Actually the four times I voted for the Libertarian Party for President, it was because while Republicans and Democrats talk a different game, they rarely actually did anything different. Most Libertarians I knew thought the same thing. The main reason that I'm voting Republican this time is you've given credibility to that you're crazy enough now to do it. Democrats also supporting threats, intimidation and street violence to silence your opposition is a bridge too far for me to ignore.

And I said the US is ignoring it's Constitutional limits and you said I was advocating no government. Cut the bull you didn't say what you said. I quoted you, ass hat. It's still in my post above even though you keep cutting out your quote saying what I said you said. Here you go again. Your response to my saying the government is ignoring it's Constitutional limits. You directly said my only choice is anarchy

Ahhhh.... Libertarian Crazy at it's very finest. Civilization can happen without government and taxes.

 

[JoeB131]

Where the fuck do you get slavery in this? You need your head examined. And it's clearly Marxism you idiots are after now. Just read the communist manifesto and listen to any of the Democrats in DC

Um- Our constitution- Written by slave-owners for slave owners who lived in mortal fear the British Crown would outlaw slavery. We really shouldn't bind ourselves by their limited thinking.

Actually the four times I voted for the Libertarian Party for President, it was because while Republicans and Democrats talk a different game, they rarely actually did anything different. Most Libertarians I knew thought the same thing. The main reason that I'm voting Republican this time is you've given credibility to that you're crazy enough now to do it. Democrats also supporting threats, intimidation and street violence to silence your opposition is a bridge too far for me to ignore.

Oh, did the scary black people scare you? Are you weeing in your pants. Hey, how about addressing the things they are concerned about.

As one of my officers said about rioting when we took civil disturbance training, "Those are you fellow citizens out there, they are damned mad about something and they have every right to be."

The funny thing is you guys keep saying we needs our guns to fights us the gummit, and here are people fighting the gummit, and you are all upset about it.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Um- Our constitution- Written by slave-owners for slave owners who lived in mortal fear the British Crown would outlaw slavery.

It is simply NOT true that the slave owners who wrote our Constitution “lived in mortal fear the British Crown would outlaw slavery.” This was not a significant cause of the American Revolution. The abolitionist movement in England was nowhere near strong enough in 1776 to give birth to such fears. This is one of the misinterpretations, exaggerations and historical errors of the NYTimes “1619 Project” that has been criticized by most historians (regardless of political view), and is being appropriately corrected.

 

[JoeB131]

Um- Our constitution- Written by slave-owners for slave owners who lived in mortal fear the British Crown would outlaw slavery.

It is simply NOT true that the slave owners who wrote our Constitution “lived in mortal fear the British Crown would outlaw slavery.” This was not a significant cause of the American Revolution. The abolitionist movement in England was nowhere near strong enough in 1776 to give birth to such fears. This is one of the misinterpretations, exaggerations and historical errors of the NYTimes “1619 Project” that has been criticized by most historians (regardless of political view), and is being appropriately corrected.

Uh-huh.

History is the lie everyone agrees upon. - Voltaire.

I'm sure that when the British offered freedom to any slave that took up arms against the colonists, that didn't bother them in the least.

 

[kaz]

Where the fuck do you get slavery in this? You need your head examined. And it's clearly Marxism you idiots are after now. Just read the communist manifesto and listen to any of the Democrats in DC

Um- Our constitution- Written by slave-owners for slave owners who lived in mortal fear the British Crown would outlaw slavery. We really shouldn't bind ourselves by their limited thinking.

Actually the four times I voted for the Libertarian Party for President, it was because while Republicans and Democrats talk a different game, they rarely actually did anything different. Most Libertarians I knew thought the same thing. The main reason that I'm voting Republican this time is you've given credibility to that you're crazy enough now to do it. Democrats also supporting threats, intimidation and street violence to silence your opposition is a bridge too far for me to ignore.

Oh, did the scary black people scare you? Are you weeing in your pants. Hey, how about addressing the things they are concerned about.

As one of my officers said about rioting when we took civil disturbance training, "Those are you fellow citizens out there, they are damned mad about something and they have every right to be."

The funny thing is you guys keep saying we needs our guns to fights us the gummit, and here are people fighting the gummit, and you are all upset about it.

Going off in your racist rants again. No one is talking about race but you. That wasn't the subject of the discussion.

But KKK members have to bring race into every discussion, don't you, Grand Turtle?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The author of the 1619 Project wrote that "one of the primary reasons the colonists decided to declare their independence from Britain was because they wanted to protect the institution of slavery.” This was simply not true.

Of course in the actual war there were opportunist appeals to various Indian tribes and slaves ... from both sides. The few slaves in the South who actually escaped and fought with the British side ... were brave men battling for their freedom. So too were the Indians who fought with the British. But this doesn’t change the nature of the struggle as a whole.

Blacks in New England, where anti-slavery sentiments were then more fertile than in England itself, often fought with the Americans. Crucially, emancipation was achieved in many New England states as that revolutionary period ended. Time limits were put on slavery in important states like New York, so that future generations were born free, and even once enslaved men and women like Sojourner Truth could become free. Anti-slavery sentiment was stronger in New England than England proper in those early times.

Of course racism was already a reality almost everywhere and slavery was not to “wither away” as many hoped but to ever more deeply embed itself in the Southern economy. The Constitution of the new Republic, without mentioning the word “slavery” or slaves, carved out a political compromise recognizing its reality. The Civil War of course did not end racism.

In my opinion it is appropriate to recognize human slavery (and the racism and stigmas and inequality it generated) as a deep rooted “Original Sin” of our Republic. Its effects unfortunately remain with us even today, long after the Civil War, long after the rise of Jim Crow segregation, and long after its formal end in the 1960s.