Happy Trails to me...

....... So -- I'm gonna be mostly absent until ...... people take an interest in honest conversation and disagreement again.. ...... not so much reading thru threads of folks poking at each other like 5th graders. .....
Hmmmmm. I belong to more than one discussion forum. I could just choose one of them and drop the others but I have no plan on doing that. They are unique, each of them, and they serve my purpose on any day or moment of frustration, anger, sadness, solace, happiness, joy, or introspection. I very, very, very seldom use four-letter words but I appreciate this forum where one can ... and many do. I think that is the most unique thing about this forum, that one can swear. The "good guys" the "bad guys" the intelligent, the fools, the trolls, the sweethearts, the bitches, the nationalists, the free-thinkers, the antagonists, those on my ignore list, they are here - there - and everywhere. BUT this is the only place I know of where you can let it all hang out! :cool:
 
..... There is no truth in media these days, just propaganda.
Exactly. That is why a forum like this one is important. This is where those who believe the propaganda and those who do not can meet "no holes barred", not even a PC officer here to stop you that I can see. Run what ya' brung boys, run what ya' brung. We'll see what's what when your colours run. :cow:
 
Exactly. That is why a forum like this one is important. This is where those who believe the propaganda and those who do not can meet "no holes barred", not even a PC officer here to stop you that I can see. Run what ya' brung boys, run what ya' brung. We'll see what's what when your colours run. :cow:

Hopefully while you're enjoying the freedom to cuss like a normal adult and NOT face being cancelled for micro-aggressing anyone -- you're putting your best effort into CHALLENGING "what they brung".. You get out of this genre of social media what you put into it. And I cry myself to sleep every night about the low effort posters not APPRECIATING a site that's COMMITTED to free expression.. It's getting more valuable every day if ONLY THE MEMBERS understood what we're REALLY here for.. And that's to discuss, and fight over TOPICS and ideas and principles..

Not just to have 35 different Flame Zones.
 
Hopefully while you're enjoying the freedom to cuss like a normal adult and NOT face being cancelled for micro-aggressing anyone -- you're putting your best effort into CHALLENGING "what they brung".. You get out of this genre of social media what you put into it. And I cry myself to sleep every night about the low effort posters not APPRECIATING a site that's COMMITTED to free expression.. It's getting more valuable every day if ONLY THE MEMBERS understood what we're REALLY here for.. And that's to discuss, and fight over TOPICS and ideas and principles..

Not just to have 35 different Flame Zones.
I guess what you are saying pretty much goes without saying except for those who do not APPRECIATE a site such as this one. But that’s the beauty of it. You’ve got the hardheads, the softies, the trolls, and everything in between them. The trolls and the hard heads go on the ignore list of the softies. The trolls and the softies go on the ignore list of the hard heads. And the trolls don’t put anyone on the ignore list because then they won’t know who’ve they’ve successfully trolled. The point, the real point, is that there’s something for everyone and it’s up to each of us to react in the way that we believe will enlighten both ourselves and those with whom we’ve interacted in every possible scenario. It’s life without a microscope.

I don’t even want to guess at the number of “low effort posters” on the forum but they are a slice of the community. Some members come here for the specific purpose of confronting “low effort” people in order to earnestly teach them something or maybe just to give them a verbal bloody nose. I think it’s healthy for everyone. You know as well as I that there is also a percentage of up-standing forum members who contribute on a daily basis. Again, I don’t want to guess at the number of them, but do you not feel they are worth it? I think they are.
 
Hopefully while you're enjoying the freedom to cuss like a normal adult and NOT face being cancelled for micro-aggressing anyone -- you're putting your best effort into CHALLENGING "what they brung"..
Apparently a futile exercise, Flacc! It takes two to tango and my experience here is that a great many people on the Left here throw out all kinds of rash statements, attacks and accusations, but when you CHALLENGE them on the factuality of it, to back it up somehow, most of them just give you a laugh, a thumbs down, or call you a functional braindead moron or other insult then say that you are simply too far below the brains of a slug for them to even bother wasting time on. I call that a bomb-thrower. Many call that TROLLING.

We even have a rule against that:

Screen Shot 2021-08-26 at 1.55.35 PM.png


I've chased after some people after they threw a bomb of incendiary words then refused to explain at all or even back up with some supporting evidence for the validity of the remark to no avail. They troll and run because the above rule has no teeth, it is not enforced, and I've not seen one person here take heat for saying crap then taking off despite repeated efforts to get them to back up or at least embellish on their statements. In other words, to DISCUSS their claims.

And with that, the prospects of any DISCUSSION become rather moot. Trolling runs amok here because it is a lot easier than sticking to things with substance that you are prepared to defend.

You get out of this genre of social media what you put into it.
And many here put little or nothing into this place. They troll coming here mainly to insult conservatives, troll Trump, and to disrupt. A good indicator of the state of a person is whether they use an unflattering picture of, say, Trump as their avatar. If someone sports a goofy photoshoped picture or cartoon of Trump, for instance, you can't very well expect any serious discussion of the man from them. They have already announced that their every view of Trump, etc., will be nothing but nonsense and comedy.

And I cry myself to sleep every night about the low effort posters not APPRECIATING a site that's COMMITTED to free expression.. It's getting more valuable every day if ONLY THE MEMBERS understood what we're REALLY here for.. And that's to discuss, and fight over TOPICS and ideas and principles..
And therein lies the conflict. On the one end of the spectrum there is TOTAL FREE EXPRESSION, but the flaw there is that you end up with a lot of people freely trolling and venting garbage that they KNOW is garbage just to disrupt threads and get a rise out of others.

On the other end of the spectrum you have really good DISCUSSION, but in order to achieve that, you must have some boundaries to your expression to where trolling is suppressed and people are expected to answer questions and back up their statements with reasonable evidence. You need to attract quality people and keep track of people who excessively troll, throw bombs, ridicule, insult for no other reason than to inflame rather than to make a point, refuse to answer questions or back up claims, and have a high number of reports on them, complaints, others ignoring them, perennially just giving out funnies or dislikes.

There are easily 30-60 people here who would not be here at all if they couldn't just freely troll threads and people saying stupid things. Even if they do bother to write back to your comments, it isn't with any desire or willingness to actually DISCUSS. Most of them come from other forums and are only here to try to monopolize USMB because unlike many other boards, USMB lets conservatives get their views out AT ALL.

What I've found is that you get the most return out of members who show some history of a qualitative input. True DISCUSSION is at odds with absolutely FREE EXPRESSION. Until USMB finds a better way of weeding out undesirables unable or unwilling to really DISCUSS things in an open, fair and qualitative way, we will always be plagued by and overrun with Flame Zone and Flame Zone Light, where people can make most any outrageous claim, unsupported, and just . . . carry on.

And central to that problem is the ONE WORD missing in all the myriad rules on our board: ------ NO WHERE in the guidelines or rules does it ever say anything about the QUALITY of the content you contribute nor the INTEGRITY of the individual; you see, when you care not about the quality a person is willing to bring to a thread, you tend to end up with just a lot of FREE EXPRESSION, but not much quality, and the opposite of quality is TROLLING for trolling's sake.

As the saying goes, . . . a few good men---, you can go a lot farther by setting STANDARDS of membership and getting 10 good men than you'll ever get with 100 mostly idiots.

But then, that problem is again reflected in the failings of our Reaction and Points scores where a person playing mere spelling word games rattling off two word comments every 10 seconds gets the same point consideration and weighting as people who spend hours and days on a single post researching and carefully typing thoroughly worded dissertations about social issues.
 
Apparently a futile exercise, Flacc! It takes two to tango and my experience here is that a great many people on the Left here throw out all kinds of rash statements, attacks and accusations .......
Oh, ain't you cute. You make a fucking six-volume reply (all of which I am leaving out for the sake of sanity) and you start out by blaming the problem on the political Left. It looks to me that you are now part of the problem itself.
 
Apparently a futile exercise, Flacc! It takes two to tango and my experience here is that a great many people on the Left here throw out all kinds of rash statements, attacks and accusations, but when you CHALLENGE them on the factuality of it, to back it up somehow, most of them just give you a laugh, a thumbs down, or call you a functional braindead moron or other insult then say that you are simply too far below the brains of a slug for them to even bother wasting time on. I call that a bomb-thrower. Many call that TROLLING.

We even have a rule against that:

View attachment 530965

I've chased after some people after they threw a bomb of incendiary words then refused to explain at all or even back up with some supporting evidence for the validity of the remark to no avail. They troll and run because the above rule has no teeth, it is not enforced, and I've not seen one person here take heat for saying crap then taking off despite repeated efforts to get them to back up or at least embellish on their statements. In other words, to DISCUSS their claims.

And with that, the prospects of any DISCUSSION become rather moot. Trolling runs amok here because it is a lot easier than sticking to things with substance that you are prepared to defend.


And many here put little or nothing into this place. They troll coming here mainly to insult conservatives, troll Trump, and to disrupt. A good indicator of the state of a person is whether they use an unflattering picture of, say, Trump as their avatar. If someone sports a goofy photoshoped picture or cartoon of Trump, for instance, you can't very well expect any serious discussion of the man from them. They have already announced that their every view of Trump, etc., will be nothing but nonsense and comedy.


And therein lies the conflict. On the one end of the spectrum there is TOTAL FREE EXPRESSION, but the flaw there is that you end up with a lot of people freely trolling and venting garbage that they KNOW is garbage just to disrupt threads and get a rise out of others.

On the other end of the spectrum you have really good DISCUSSION, but in order to achieve that, you must have some boundaries to your expression to where trolling is suppressed and people are expected to answer questions and back up their statements with reasonable evidence. You need to attract quality people and keep track of people who excessively troll, throw bombs, ridicule, insult for no other reason than to inflame rather than to make a point, refuse to answer questions or back up claims, and have a high number of reports on them, complaints, others ignoring them, perennially just giving out funnies or dislikes.

There are easily 30-60 people here who would not be here at all if they couldn't just freely troll threads and people saying stupid things. Even if they do bother to write back to your comments, it isn't with any desire or willingness to actually DISCUSS. Most of them come from other forums and are only here to try to monopolize USMB because unlike many other boards, USMB lets conservatives get their views out AT ALL.

What I've found is that you get the most return out of members who show some history of a qualitative input. True DISCUSSION is at odds with absolutely FREE EXPRESSION. Until USMB finds a better way of weeding out undesirables unable or unwilling to really DISCUSS things in an open, fair and qualitative way, we will always be plagued by and overrun with Flame Zone and Flame Zone Light, where people can make most any outrageous claim, unsupported, and just . . . carry on.

And central to that problem is the ONE WORD missing in all the myriad rules on our board: ------ NO WHERE in the guidelines or rules does it ever say anything about the QUALITY of the content you contribute nor the INTEGRITY of the individual; you see, when you care not about the quality a person is willing to bring to a thread, you tend to end up with just a lot of FREE EXPRESSION, but not much quality, and the opposite of quality is TROLLING for trolling's sake.

As the saying goes, . . . a few good men---, you can go a lot farther by setting STANDARDS of membership and getting 10 good men than you'll ever get with 100 mostly idiots.

But then, that problem is again reflected in the failings of our Reaction and Points scores where a person playing mere spelling word games rattling off two word comments every 10 seconds gets the same point consideration and weighting as people who spend hours and days on a single post researching and carefully typing thoroughly worded dissertations about social issues.
Oh the irony.
 
Oh, ain't you cute. You make a fucking six-volume reply (all of which I am leaving out for the sake of sanity) and you start out by blaming the problem on the political Left. It looks to me that you are now part of the problem itself.
A six volume reply? I did not know having a discussion giving a detailed and articulated reply of a serious topic of a page worth (800 words, probably more than you've ever written in a day), amounted to a "six volume reply"! Maybe you just shouldn't read if it hurts your eyes or brain to do so.

And am I blaming the Left? Largely. I have no problems generally discussing things with people on the right, even when we don't agree. And you have just further illustrated my point.

And as far as being the problem, since you did not address any of the points I brought up at all other than just to attack me and bitch, it would seem that YOU are part of the problem, again, trolling, apparently because you are incensed that someone wrote something you'd either have to give thought to or might challenge your political sensibilities.

In the future, if a post doesn't concern you or is too long or difficult for you to read because of a limited attention span, maybe you ought to just skip over it.
 
I guess what you are saying pretty much goes without saying except for those who do not APPRECIATE a site such as this one. But that’s the beauty of it. You’ve got the hardheads, the softies, the trolls, and everything in between them. The trolls and the hard heads go on the ignore list of the softies. The trolls and the softies go on the ignore list of the hard heads. And the trolls don’t put anyone on the ignore list because then they won’t know who’ve they’ve successfully trolled. The point, the real point, is that there’s something for everyone and it’s up to each of us to react in the way that we believe will enlighten both ourselves and those with whom we’ve interacted in every possible scenario. It’s life without a microscope.

I don’t even want to guess at the number of “low effort posters” on the forum but they are a slice of the community. Some members come here for the specific purpose of confronting “low effort” people in order to earnestly teach them something or maybe just to give them a verbal bloody nose. I think it’s healthy for everyone. You know as well as I that there is also a percentage of up-standing forum members who contribute on a daily basis. Again, I don’t want to guess at the number of them, but do you not feel they are worth it? I think they are.

Sounds like you have a good set of survival tools for being on USMB.. Just remember, if YOU aren't bringing an ACTUAL DISCUSSION -- you're not wracking up points. I just wish folks would honor this place with a little more effort at WINNING debate. Instead of getting personal ego validated by "likes" or points for dissing other members.

Some parts of the political spectrum have had the natural "self-preservation" instinct bred right out of them.. They cant be honest and work hard at winning debate because they'd rather troll.. But I never come here unless I'm seriously committed to winning discussions..

Mobile devices and social media are pretty much a curse controlled now by the techno-fascists. If ya dont appreciate this place -- then we all could lose it..
 
And many here put little or nothing into this place. They troll coming here mainly to insult conservatives, troll Trump, and to disrupt. A good indicator of the state of a person is whether they use an unflattering picture of, say, Trump as their avatar. If someone sports a goofy photoshoped picture or cartoon of Trump, for instance, you can't very well expect any serious discussion of the man from them. They have already announced that their every view of Trump, etc., will be nothing but nonsense and comedy.

We cant choose our members. Dont actually want that power. But I'll tell you that folks who aren't contributing spend a lot of their time on ban.. LARGEST problem is -- there's a sense of "community" as well.. To moderate effectively, you have to at least LIKE "the community as a whole".. Even the trolls.. Who are like the "small cat" exhibit at the zoo that doesn't get the most attention.

If you stop LIKING the community as a whole -- then you take a BREAK from moderating at this place for awhile. :auiqs.jpg:


Or at least until shit gets so serious, the trolls start to realize it's a matter of THEIR survival to honestly discuss.
 
We cant choose our members. Dont actually want that power.
Unusual. Any group I've ever run, we set certain standards or conditions for membership, to weed out troublemakers. It can be almost any criteria, for me, it is usually a sincere interest in the subject (I guess here it is politics) and a willingness and ability to make some positive contribution to the group or at least not be a problem. In this case here, I suppose that would be an ability to stick mostly within the rules most of the time, and to not be a total idiot, pain in the butt or deliberate irritant or shithead ALL of the time, ie, some redeemable quality.

That still leaves at least 30 people or so here I find NO redeemable qualities to like!
 
Unusual. Any group I've ever run, we set certain standards or conditions for membership, to weed out troublemakers. It can be almost any criteria, for me, it is usually a sincere interest in the subject (I guess here it is politics) and a willingness and ability to make some positive contribution to the group or at least not be a problem.

Way too subjective for a board that has 600 ACTIVE members and over 6000 posts a day.. When do you decide this? On their first day before you've explained the rules to them? Or on their 1st BAD DAY on the boards? I'd wager that would be a 30% exclusion rate off the bat..

And "trouble makers" could mean ANYTHING.. From staging a valid protest to folks who post too much... I'm leery of ANY authority who declares a war on "troublemakers"... I've been mentioned by my govt leaders as a potential troublemaker.. I'm proud of that but aware that I need to watch those who THINK I'm a troublemaker because I'm a Libertarian or how I voted or what my opinion are...
 
Way too subjective for a board that has 600 ACTIVE members and over 6000 posts a day.. When do you decide this? On their first day before you've explained the rules to them? Or on their 1st BAD DAY on the boards? I'd wager that would be a 30% exclusion rate off the bat.. And "trouble makers" could mean ANYTHING.. From staging a valid protest to folks who post too much... I'm leery of ANY authority who declares a war on "troublemakers"...

That's a good question. I don't presume to have all the answers for USMB while standing on one leg, these things take a lot of thought, but I can say this:
  1. You decide that over time by a pattern of behavior that accrues, from flagrantly and severely breaking rules to repeatedly not abiding by moderation. For instance, the rule I posted here earlier about repeatably not following up questions about things you say with some sort of credible answers. For you see, to have a DISCUSSION BOARD, people at least have to be willing to DISCUSS their opinions! Hopefully support them with some evidence. Not just tell people how stupid, brainwashed, cult-like and unworthy they are. People who hurl insults and rash statements then run away without a willingness to follow up and explain them are not here to DISCUSS, but to just hurl bombs. Surely this forum affords you tools for tabulating quality data on members such as infractions, number of people having them on Ignore, word counts and other things which graph the character of how they participate. If the average person has 3-5 people who ignore them and one guy has 99 people who ignores him, that could be a very good indication this person is a flaming ASS.
  2. I define a troublemaker as someone who is habitually outside the rules and who consistently acts as an agent of chaos taking the group FARTHER from the group ideal of an equanimous discussion board, not closer.
For a forum with 600 active members and very few moderators, achieving the goal of an equanimous discussion board is an impossible task unless you are either somewhat selective in approving members based on some initial "test of suitability" to stay within a set of guidelines rather than just taking everyone who applies until they FORCE you to kick them out, AND, greatly simplifying the rules needing moderated.

All the rules and guidelines on USMB could be cooked down to and condensed into just 1-3 rules.
 
That's a good question. I don't presume to have all the answers for USMB while standing on one leg, these things take a lot of thought, but I can say this:
  1. You decide that over time by a pattern of behavior that accrues, from flagrantly and severely breaking rules to repeatedly not abiding by moderation. For instance, the rule I posted here earlier about repeatably not following up questions about things you say with some sort of credible answers. For you see, to have a DISCUSSION BOARD, people at least have to be willing to DISCUSS their opinions! Hopefully support them with some evidence. Not just tell people how stupid, brainwashed, cult-like and unworthy they are. People who hurl insults and rash statements then run away without a willingness to follow up and explain them are not here to DISCUSS, but to just hurl bombs. Surely this forum affords you tools for tabulating quality data on members such as infractions, number of people having them on Ignore, word counts and other things which graph the character of how they participate. If the average person has 3-5 people who ignore them and one guy has 99 people who ignores him, that could be a very good indication this person is a flaming ASS.
  2. I define a troublemaker as someone who is habitually outside the rules and who consistently acts as an agent of chaos taking the group FARTHER from the group ideal of an equanimous discussion board, not closer.
For a forum with 600 active members and very few moderators, achieving the goal of an equanimous discussion board is an impossible task unless you are either somewhat selective in approving members based on some initial "test of suitability" to stay within a set of guidelines rather than just taking everyone who applies until they FORCE you to kick them out, AND, greatly simplifying the rules needing moderated.

All the rules and guidelines on USMB could be cooked down to and condensed into just 1-3 rules.

I hate quizzes and tests to join anything.. LOL.

However, MAYBE a psych exam or Rorshach test would be helpful.. :auiqs.jpg:
 
I hate quizzes and tests to join anything.. LOL. However, MAYBE a psych exam or Rorshach test would be helpful.. :auiqs.jpg:

Now you're just being silly. It wouldn't have to be any more than a statement of mission by the group and what will (and will not) be expected from the members! If it sounds good to you, great! If you don't think it would work for you, why bother joining.

Then people will have less to complain about when they get moderated.

The first step to improving the board is by setting and keeping a higher bar of expectation for the members. It is the height of hubris to OTOH Flacc say you will take anyone who just comes along and signs up then hope you'll get some high standard of conduct from them.

Many people here are clearly not here to just freely and openly debate and discuss topics. They are not here to discuss what is wrong with their party, but to deny there is ANYTHING wrong with their party while telling you that everything is wrong with YOUR party. You can't expect "discussion" from these people, just messages denying everything about one party and accusing everything against the other.

Are there so few people in the world really willing or interested to discuss the REALITY of the world we are in as it actually is? Then is it any wonder how it got this way in the first place?

But I understand and admire your goal on this being a forum where everybody has a say (free expression) no matter what it is. But there is a difference between free expression and a free-for-all.

Even the Autobahn has guardrails.
 
A six volume reply? I did not know having a discussion giving a detailed and articulated reply of a serious topic of a page worth (800 words, probably more than you've ever written in a day), amounted to a "six volume reply"! Maybe you just shouldn't read if it hurts your eyes or brain to do so.

And am I blaming the Left? Largely. I have no problems generally discussing things with people on the right, even when we don't agree. And you have just further illustrated my point.

And as far as being the problem, since you did not address any of the points I brought up at all other than just to attack me and bitch, it would seem that YOU are part of the problem, again, trolling, apparently because you are incensed that someone wrote something you'd either have to give thought to or might challenge your political sensibilities.

In the future, if a post doesn't concern you or is too long or difficult for you to read because of a limited attention span, maybe you ought to just skip over it.
You have lost your mind. Your reply(ies) is an example of the very issue at hand, ie. blanketing a cause/blame for lack of honest debate. Plus your "illustration on your point" is based upon what you perceive to be my political bent although you've neither asked nor have the slightest basis or indication of what that might be.

I sincerely hope this response of mine is painful for you because it certainly is for me. Up until this point, I've always thought of you as a kindred spirit. Maybe you're just having a bad day?
 
Sounds like you have a good set of survival tools for being on USMB.. Just remember, if YOU aren't bringing an ACTUAL DISCUSSION -- you're not wracking up points. I just wish folks would honor this place with a little more effort at WINNING debate. Instead of getting personal ego validated by "likes" or points for dissing other members.

Some parts of the political spectrum have had the natural "self-preservation" instinct bred right out of them.. They cant be honest and work hard at winning debate because they'd rather troll.. But I never come here unless I'm seriously committed to winning discussions..

Mobile devices and social media are pretty much a curse controlled now by the techno-fascists. If ya dont appreciate this place -- then we all could lose it..
I only disagree with the idea of "WINNING debate", particularly the all caps part. No, I am not going into the subject of winning vs. learning/teaching. That's too obvious.
 
Hey! What happened to your "Bug" ? I like that effect. How about putting it back?
Wow! I completely forgot about that! Being a political forum I decided to change my sig to something more provocative. You know, if you decide to use it yourself I won't hold it against you. It's on Google somewhere if you want it. :)
 

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