CDZ Guns, Culture & Politics

[Skull Pilot]

So then you completely own every child rapist

not sure where you are going with this, but never mind.

If people who own guns are responsible for all gun murders then all people with penises are responsible for all rapes.
All people with hands are responsible for all deaths committed with fists
All people with liquor in their homes are responsible for all drunk drivers

This is the world you want to live in

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then more than 99% if guns ever made have failed their purpose? Is that what your selling? Seems that I’d be more concerned over something NOT designed to kill people being highly effective at doing so, then something that (cough cough) is supposedly designed to kill people, failing to meet its purpose.

Or are you just paranoid?

33,000 times a year, they work just fine.. and that's too many.

SUICIDE IS A CHOICE

but we all know you hate it when people actually have choices

 

[JoeB131]

Thing is, gun owners have always given in, or been steamrolled. No law, not any of the common sense gun laws that have been passed or have been reccomended have had anything to do with the event that spurred them. For instance, many laws we have no were put into place when Kennedy was shot. Name one law that prevented Reagen from being shot . And after Reagen was shot we got more laws including the Brady Bill, and mass shootings happened. We had the 94 crime bill and Columbine ( among other mass shootings happened) and still more laws get passed. Answer honestly, banning bump stocks after the parkland shooting addresses what exactly?

You do know his name was spelled "Reagan", right?

Here was the thing, Hinkley was crazy, and able to buy a gun anyway.. that was the problem here.

 

[JoeB131]

If people who own guns are responsible for all gun murders then all people with penises are responsible for all rapes.
All people with hands are responsible for all deaths committed with fists
All people with liquor in their homes are responsible for all drunk drivers

This is the world you want to live in

It's not people who own guns who are the problem here.

It's people who won't even agree to the most common sense gun laws, like 'Crazy people shouldn't be allowed to buy military grade weapons"

 

[Skull Pilot]

If people who own guns are responsible for all gun murders then all people with penises are responsible for all rapes.
All people with hands are responsible for all deaths committed with fists
All people with liquor in their homes are responsible for all drunk drivers

This is the world you want to live in

It's not people who own guns who are the problem here.

It's people who won't even agree to the most common sense gun laws, like 'Crazy people shouldn't be allowed to buy military grade weapons"

There you go again

Civilians can't buy military weapons without the proper permit.
And we already have laws to determine who is mentally incompetent and a thing called due process that can be used to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns

 

[JoeB131]

There you go again

Civilians can't buy military weapons without the proper permit.
And we already have laws to determine who is mentally incompetent and a thing called due process that can be used to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns

Yet none of them stopped Cruz from buying an AR-15 (A weapon designed for the Army) and shooting up 17 of his classmates with it.

Hey, when a law doesn't work, you make it work. You don't throw up your hands and give up.

 

[Skull Pilot]

There you go again

Civilians can't buy military weapons without the proper permit.
And we already have laws to determine who is mentally incompetent and a thing called due process that can be used to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns

Yet none of them stopped Cruz from buying an AR-15 (A weapon designed for the Army) and shooting up 17 of his classmates with it.

Hey, when a law doesn't work, you make it work. You don't throw up your hands and give up.

No one petitioned for Cruz to be given a competency trial

If people don't follow due process the system doesn't work.

 

[Skull Pilot]

There you go again

Civilians can't buy military weapons without the proper permit.
And we already have laws to determine who is mentally incompetent and a thing called due process that can be used to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns

Yet none of them stopped Cruz from buying an AR-15 (A weapon designed for the Army) and shooting up 17 of his classmates with it.

Hey, when a law doesn't work, you make it work. You don't throw up your hands and give up.

And it's the government you think can save you that failed here not the laws.

The government ignored the people and their reports.

Why?

Because the governemnt has neither the ability nor the obligation to protect you

 

[Crixus]

Thing is, gun owners have always given in, or been steamrolled. No law, not any of the common sense gun laws that have been passed or have been reccomended have had anything to do with the event that spurred them. For instance, many laws we have no were put into place when Kennedy was shot. Name one law that prevented Reagen from being shot . And after Reagen was shot we got more laws including the Brady Bill, and mass shootings happened. We had the 94 crime bill and Columbine ( among other mass shootings happened) and still more laws get passed. Answer honestly, banning bump stocks after the parkland shooting addresses what exactly?

You do know his name was spelled "Reagan", right?

Here was the thing, Hinkley was crazy, and able to buy a gun anyway.. that was the problem here.

Again, no law since the NFA of 1934 has done anything to stop one murder since it was put on paper. You can’t post one instance at all. Say Jose, what have any of them gun laws done to keep the natives from shooting eachother there in Chicago this weekend?

 

[Crixus]

There you go again

Civilians can't buy military weapons without the proper permit.
And we already have laws to determine who is mentally incompetent and a thing called due process that can be used to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns

Yet none of them stopped Cruz from buying an AR-15 (A weapon designed for the Army) and shooting up 17 of his classmates with it.

Hey, when a law doesn't work, you make it work. You don't throw up your hands and give up.

Dum.

 

[Crixus]

There you go again

Civilians can't buy military weapons without the proper permit.
And we already have laws to determine who is mentally incompetent and a thing called due process that can be used to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns

Yet none of them stopped Cruz from buying an AR-15 (A weapon designed for the Army) and shooting up 17 of his classmates with it.

Hey, when a law doesn't work, you make it work. You don't throw up your hands and give up.

Please give us an excample or your Mayer “making gun laws work” in Chicago there.

 

[BlackSand]

uh, you guys created the gun culture with stupid statements like "gun ownership is a right"...

You completely own Lanza and Cruz and Holmes and every other nutter who shoots up a school or a theater.

Cruz didn't necessarily go shoot up a school ... He shot up the school Progressives insisted he attend.
It didn't matter he had special needs ... He was mainstreamed into the classroom by your culture and policy ... You own that.

Edit:
It should be noted that President Bush's No Child left Behind policy played its part as well.
If we weren't required to score the schools ... Then administrators could discipline the students.
Since discipline (expulsion, referral and so on) count against the school's score ...
Progressives think that means they shouldn't discipline a child with appropriate corrective actions.

.

 

[OldLady]

uh, you guys created the gun culture with stupid statements like "gun ownership is a right"...

You completely own Lanza and Cruz and Holmes and every other nutter who shoots up a school or a theater.

Cruz didn't necessarily go shoot up a school ... He shot up the school Progressives insisted he attend.
It didn't matter he had special needs ... He was mainstreamed into the classroom by your culture and policy ... You own that.

Edit:
It should be noted that President Bush's No Child left Behind policy played its part as well.
If we weren't required to score the schools ... Then administrators could discipline the students.
Since discipline (expulsion, referral and so on) count against the school's score ...
Progressives think that means they shouldn't discipline a child with appropriate corrective actions.

.

They need the $$. They don't want to deal with corrective action plans for years. The current "accountability" structure is weighted toward the pie in the sky hopes of graduating all students. On the local level, they don't want to see their school in the "best neighborhood in Florida" have a large number of disciplinary problems. That doesn't mean the Promise Program doesn't have merit. Anything can be overdone, though.

 

[BlackSand]

They need the $$. They don't want to deal with corrective action plans for years. The current "accountability" structure is weighted toward the pie in the sky hopes of graduating all students. On the local level, they don't want to see their school in the "best neighborhood in Florida" have a large number of disciplinary problems. That doesn't mean the Promise Program doesn't have merit. Anything can be overdone, though.

I agree to some extent ... But you also mentioned corrective action plans (as did I).

There is a difference in a Corrective Action and an appropriate Corrective Action.
Just like the program does have merit ... It just isn't implemented and executed correctly.
For instance ... If you use a Corrective Action and it doesn't work ... Then it is not appropriate to use that Corrective Action again on the same individual.

Also ... To excuse the inability of teachers, administrators and school districts to meet higher standards ... As pie in the sky ... Is where the program fails.

If they want the children to actually score better on testing ... Or want better discipline in schools ...
You don't accomplish that by ignoring the fact you suck and need to actually address the problems ...
Instead of finding new and improved ways to ignore or excuse failure.

.

 

[OldLady]

They need the $$. They don't want to deal with corrective action plans for years. The current "accountability" structure is weighted toward the pie in the sky hopes of graduating all students. On the local level, they don't want to see their school in the "best neighborhood in Florida" have a large number of disciplinary problems. That doesn't mean the Promise Program doesn't have merit. Anything can be overdone, though.

I agree to some extent ... But you also mentioned corrective action plans (as did I).

There is a difference in a Corrective Action and an appropriate Corrective Action.
Just like the program does have merit ... It just isn't implemented and executed correctly.
For instance ... If you use a Corrective Action and it doesn't work ... Then it is not appropriate to use that Corrective Action again on the same individual.

Also ... To excuse the inability of teachers, administrators and school districts to meet higher standards ... As pie in the sky ... Is where the program fails.

If they want the children to actually score better on testing ... Or want better discipline in schools ...
You don't accomplish that by ignoring the fact you suck and need to actually address the problems ...
Instead of finding new and improved ways to ignore or excuse failure.

.

There are myriad reasons why students drop out of school, act out in school, fail in school. I agree that addressing those problems is important, but when the system penalizes the school for societal problems totally outside its control and gives them no support in addressing those problems, that is not reasonable. It will not lead to "improvements" either, only ways to massage the numbers.

 

[BlackSand]

There are myriad reasons why students drop out of school, act out in school, fail in school. I agree that addressing those problems is important, but when the system penalizes the school for societal problems totally outside its control and gives them no support in addressing those problems, that is not reasonable. It will not lead to "improvements" either, only ways to massage the numbers.

Yes ... There are numerous reasons why children fail or drop out of school.
I also fully understand how difficult it is to meet high standards especially in regards to environmental variables.

On the other hand ... I deal directly with a product used to carry pharmaceuticals that is injected directly into a human's blood stream.
The quality standards are extremely high ... The number of environmental and process variables are just as numerous and anything else.

In a statistically perfect system ... There are still three failures in every thousand attempts.

Should I excuse the fact that I know there are three failure at the best possible means to produce the product?
Should I reject the FDA's attempts to penalize me if I fail to find and adequately address those failures?
Should I risk the life of a patient because it is more convenient to ignore the higher standards?

If you answered "no" to any of those questions ... And think it is acceptable to show the same disregard towards educational standards and a child ...
You have failed the child ... Your job ... And shouldn't be trusted with any more children.

I never suggested anything was easy ... I simply suggest it is about time people understand we are going to expect better results ...
And take responsibility for where they are actually failing.

.

 

[JoeB131]

No one petitioned for Cruz to be given a competency trial

If people don't follow due process the system doesn't work.

You mean you have to prove he's crazy before you can prevent him from getting a semi-automatic assault rifle. (I'd say machine gun, but that would make you guys nuts.)

Yeah, that makes sense.

Again, no law since the NFA of 1934 has done anything to stop one murder since it was put on paper. You can’t post one instance at all. Say Jose, what have any of them gun laws done to keep the natives from shooting eachother there in Chicago this weekend?

Wouldn't know, we had all our guns laws repealed by the McDonald decision...

And then the murder rate shot up in a year.

And it's the government you think can save you that failed here not the laws.

The government ignored the people and their reports.

I agree, the government did fail to pass sensible gun laws after a crazy person named Adam Lanza shot up a school

So then another crazy person named Nikolas Cruz shot up a school.

 

[JoeB131]

Cruz didn't necessarily go shoot up a school ... He shot up the school Progressives insisted he attend.
It didn't matter he had special needs ... He was mainstreamed into the classroom by your culture and policy ... You own that.

He didn't have special needs. He wasn't 'mainstreamed'.

I know you miss the good old days when we put the retarded in warehouses, but those days are gone, and good riddance.

Now we need to stop putting the retards in charge of gun policy.

 

[JoeB131]

Please give us an excample or your Mayer “making gun laws work” in Chicago there.

I'm not sure. What is a "Mayer"?

A gun law in a city is kind of meaningless, if you can drive over a state line and buy a bunch of guns without even showing an ID, which is exactly what you can do in Indiana.

It proves why we need a FEDERAL law.

 

[BlackSand]

He didn't have special needs. He wasn't 'mainstreamed'.

I know you miss the good old days when we put the retarded in warehouses, but those days are gone, and good riddance.

Now we need to stop putting the retards in charge of gun policy.

I don't miss anything ... Much less what you refer to the good old days.
The idea of putting anyone in the federal government in charge of gun control policy is a fairly retarded idea though.

So thanks for the input ...

.