CDZ Guns, Culture & Politics

[Skull Pilot]

And I want to point your attention to the title of the thread

Guns, Culture and Politics so it seems to me the subject of the thread is not solely guns

Our murder rate certainly pertains to culture and politics as well as guns and as such is perfectly reasonable to bring up in this thread

And you know what else I see?

You are not the OP of the thread hence you have no authority to tell anyone n the thread what they can and can't bring up

Just so ya know. Even though the subject is gun violence, I found where you got that 70% of "murders" happen in 2% of counties stat. The claim is actually 68%. The source is John Lott and his "Crime Prevention Research Center".

I am looking ( unsuccessfully ) for a corroborating source as he is a known bullshitter. If I don't find one, you will be asked to support the claim with something reliable.

I expect you won't. And we will once again go nowhere.

And so the USMB world turns.

Yes you can't look at the actual data or where it was gathered so you say the source is no good

I looked at the data and where it came from and I also double checked items using the crime data on this site

Crime Rates, Statistics and Crime Data for every Address in America - NeighborhoodScout

You insult my intelligence.

Gee that was easy

You should have some respect for others and not lie so easily. You looked at nothing. This "report" was passed around RW news sources last year you saw it and it fit your preconceived notions about crime in America. You did not look at the data where it came from. You simply lied here.

Own it, at least. I'll forgive you.

Like I need or want your forgiveness.

All you did was dismiss the entire thing because you don't like John Lott

If you disagree then refute the numbers

You didn't do that you whined about the author of the article instead

 

[Pop23]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

I was concentrating on popular culture, but you make an important point - we could look beyond popular culture - internet, video games, violence in TV, movies, video games - to our culture in general. Drugs, dependence, lowered standards and expectations, absent parents, etc.

Our young people are being damaged by both, and for us to pretend that these various influences are not causing damage is denial in the extreme.

One of my daughters is a teacher, kindergarten. The stories she tells me about both the children and their parents (when they're there) are absolutely depressing. The children are so wild and uncontrollable that the school is having trouble keeping teachers. I could go and on with examples, but I suspect you get my drift.

Laws and regulations can be changed relatively quickly, but a sick culture is going to take time. We have a long way to go.
.

What you say is right, but you're spending time trying to cut down weeds when you focus on firearms rather than the stuff we know is going on.

Among the items we KNOW, for a fact, are associated with mass shooters is an obsession with violent video games, movies, and one parent / dysfunctional families.

Part of solving the problem is admitting that we have a problem. And, at the end of the day, our government is the biggest problem, as they are the enablers... they may as well be the major drug dealer.

I have a problem with only your last sentence.

If they pass law, allowing this to happen, whether they profit directly from it or not, they are the major drug dealers.

Can you imagine the loss of votes a politician would have if he threatened to bring a bill about “common sense” use of medication?

As you pointed out, there are so many legal “junkies” or parents that have their children on these things, he/she would lose an election in landslide fashion.

 

[Humorme]

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

I was concentrating on popular culture, but you make an important point - we could look beyond popular culture - internet, video games, violence in TV, movies, video games - to our culture in general. Drugs, dependence, lowered standards and expectations, absent parents, etc.

Our young people are being damaged by both, and for us to pretend that these various influences are not causing damage is denial in the extreme.

One of my daughters is a teacher, kindergarten. The stories she tells me about both the children and their parents (when they're there) are absolutely depressing. The children are so wild and uncontrollable that the school is having trouble keeping teachers. I could go and on with examples, but I suspect you get my drift.

Laws and regulations can be changed relatively quickly, but a sick culture is going to take time. We have a long way to go.
.

What you say is right, but you're spending time trying to cut down weeds when you focus on firearms rather than the stuff we know is going on.

Among the items we KNOW, for a fact, are associated with mass shooters is an obsession with violent video games, movies, and one parent / dysfunctional families.

Part of solving the problem is admitting that we have a problem. And, at the end of the day, our government is the biggest problem, as they are the enablers... they may as well be the major drug dealer.

I dunno, I look at a culture in decay as the root cause of most of our problems, our biggest threat. We're in a constant sprint to lower standards. The people we elect are merely a reflection of the decay. Our willingness to enable them are merely a symptom of the decay.
.

So, you think a bigger and more intrusive government is going to be in our best interests?

 

[Mac1958]

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

I was concentrating on popular culture, but you make an important point - we could look beyond popular culture - internet, video games, violence in TV, movies, video games - to our culture in general. Drugs, dependence, lowered standards and expectations, absent parents, etc.

Our young people are being damaged by both, and for us to pretend that these various influences are not causing damage is denial in the extreme.

One of my daughters is a teacher, kindergarten. The stories she tells me about both the children and their parents (when they're there) are absolutely depressing. The children are so wild and uncontrollable that the school is having trouble keeping teachers. I could go and on with examples, but I suspect you get my drift.

Laws and regulations can be changed relatively quickly, but a sick culture is going to take time. We have a long way to go.
.

What you say is right, but you're spending time trying to cut down weeds when you focus on firearms rather than the stuff we know is going on.

Among the items we KNOW, for a fact, are associated with mass shooters is an obsession with violent video games, movies, and one parent / dysfunctional families.

Part of solving the problem is admitting that we have a problem. And, at the end of the day, our government is the biggest problem, as they are the enablers... they may as well be the major drug dealer.

I dunno, I look at a culture in decay as the root cause of most of our problems, our biggest threat. We're in a constant sprint to lower standards. The people we elect are merely a reflection of the decay. Our willingness to enable them are merely a symptom of the decay.
.

So, you think a bigger and more intrusive government is going to be in our best interests?

I don't look at "bigger" as being "better". I think many on the Left make that simplistic mistake.

To me, it's about effectiveness, efficiency. Finding an equilibrium between safety nets/protections, and not retarding the natural dynamics of a free society & economy.

So, it's gonna be complicated.

Since the crazies have taken over both ends of the spectrum, and since this country has literally lost the ability to communicate effectively, I'm not holding my breath. What I'm expecting is more wild swings back and forth, solving nothing.
.

 

[Humorme]

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

I was concentrating on popular culture, but you make an important point - we could look beyond popular culture - internet, video games, violence in TV, movies, video games - to our culture in general. Drugs, dependence, lowered standards and expectations, absent parents, etc.

Our young people are being damaged by both, and for us to pretend that these various influences are not causing damage is denial in the extreme.

One of my daughters is a teacher, kindergarten. The stories she tells me about both the children and their parents (when they're there) are absolutely depressing. The children are so wild and uncontrollable that the school is having trouble keeping teachers. I could go and on with examples, but I suspect you get my drift.

Laws and regulations can be changed relatively quickly, but a sick culture is going to take time. We have a long way to go.
.

What you say is right, but you're spending time trying to cut down weeds when you focus on firearms rather than the stuff we know is going on.

Among the items we KNOW, for a fact, are associated with mass shooters is an obsession with violent video games, movies, and one parent / dysfunctional families.

Part of solving the problem is admitting that we have a problem. And, at the end of the day, our government is the biggest problem, as they are the enablers... they may as well be the major drug dealer.

I have a problem with only your last sentence.

If they pass law, allowing this to happen, whether they profit directly from it or not, they are the major drug dealers.

Can you imagine the loss of votes a politician would have if he threatened to bring a bill about “common sense” use of medication?

As you pointed out, there are so many legal “junkies” or parents that have their children on these things, he/she would lose an election in landslide fashion.

I'm sorry that I failed in my articulation of the last sentence.

What happens with the government is that they farm out work to independent contractors. Those independent contractors use this cookie cutter model to deal with children. In other words, suppose that you have a young child is acting up in school. You take the child to an MD. The doctor says the child has ADD / ADHD and the Ritalin is then prescribed. It also might be that the child has a "welfare check" done by DFACS / CPS. DFACS / CPS (independent contractors) have a standing policy to put children on drugs.

I was being sarcastic when I said the government may as well be major drug dealers. In reality, there is no such thing as ADD / ADHD. Take those hyperactive kids in and give them a good diet, exercise, and some activities that stimulate their mind. Get rid of their "devices" (celll phone, lap top, tablets, etc.) make them clean up their rooms every day, and you soon learn that exercise, work, mentally stimulating exercises, diet, and a stable / nurturing atmosphere solves that condition.

 

[Humorme]

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

This is what I'm talking about. As long as this is the debate, those who are enabling our decaying culture continue to win. Sometimes a smart overall strategy has to include a little capitulation here and there.
.

Capitulate what?

I pointed it out in the OP: "If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners."

If your response is "no, we can't give an inch", that's my point.
.

I've pointed out that the gun owners have compromised every time. Gun owners compromised on full auto weapons (those are being phased out without a single one that was legally owned being used in a crime.) There was the semi-auto import ban, the ban on bringing back our own weaponry stored in Korean warehouses (like the M1 Garand and M1 carbine.) There was the Assault Weapon Ban (which proved NOT to be the answer), the wholly unconstitutional Lautenberg Amendment, the Brady Bill, etc., etc.

When it comes to the guns, there is NO new GUN regulation that could have been passed that would have stopped Parkland Florida, Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc., etc.

This time we don't need to even consider any more regulations. As a matter of fact, the term "reasonable regulations" is an oxymoron when applied to gun control.

The real solution is to fix the problems within our culture. We don't need to ban any more guns and a background check only tells you that person hasn't committed a crime yet. Registration leads to confiscation. And believe it or not, you ban one gun and another becomes the "dangerous weapon." The AK used to be the cheap weapon of choice. Now the left wants the AR off the market. Then it will be Glock. On and on the incremental attack will go.

Let's do something and have the LEFT do the the compromising on this one. Let's address people before they grow up to become mass shooters, domestic abusers, violent criminals, etc. Let's focus on fixing the family this time.

 

[Mac1958]

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

This is what I'm talking about. As long as this is the debate, those who are enabling our decaying culture continue to win. Sometimes a smart overall strategy has to include a little capitulation here and there.
.

Capitulate what?

I pointed it out in the OP: "If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners."

If your response is "no, we can't give an inch", that's my point.
.

I've pointed out that the gun owners have compromised every time. Gun owners compromised on full auto weapons (those are being phased out without a single one that was legally owned being used in a crime.) There was the semi-auto import ban, the ban on bringing back our own weaponry stored in Korean warehouses (like the M1 Garand and M1 carbine.) There was the Assault Weapon Ban (which proved NOT to be the answer), the wholly unconstitutional Lautenberg Amendment, the Brady Bill, etc., etc.

When it comes to the guns, there is NO new GUN regulation that could have been passed that would have stopped Parkland Florida, Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc., etc.

This time we don't need to even consider any more regulations. As a matter of fact, the term "reasonable regulations" is an oxymoron when applied to gun control.

The real solution is to fix the problems within our culture. We don't need to ban any more guns and a background check only tells you that person hasn't committed a crime yet. Registration leads to confiscation. And believe it or not, you ban one gun and another becomes the "dangerous weapon." The AK used to be the cheap weapon of choice. Now the left wants the AR off the market. Then it will be Glock. On and on the incremental attack will go.

Let's do something and have the LEFT do the the compromising on this one. Let's address people before they grow up to become mass shooters, domestic abusers, violent criminals, etc. Let's focus on fixing the family this time.

Well, while we wait for that, the culture continues to decay. Rapidly. And the Left is in control of that. That's the only thing I know for sure.
.

 

[Humorme]

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

This is what I'm talking about. As long as this is the debate, those who are enabling our decaying culture continue to win. Sometimes a smart overall strategy has to include a little capitulation here and there.
.

Capitulate what?

I pointed it out in the OP: "If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners."

If your response is "no, we can't give an inch", that's my point.
.

I've asked you twice now, what should be given? What new law would have prevented Parkland?

None. Nothing could have prevented Parkland. You win. Never mind.
.

This is where you are wholly wrong. The Parkland could have been stopped and should have been stopped. The LEO community did not do their job to prevent it, despite all the warning signs. I mean when you have the police being called to the same house 39 times and a child being reported by the neighbors AND this same child being suspended from school for violent acts; when that child is known to have an obsession with guns and violence; when he made threats on Facebook and posted pictures of himself in bad ass poses with firearms.... it should have sent red flags from the city police to the school officials, to the county police, state authorities AND the FBI that SOMETHING WAS WRONG.

When the rampage was over, those who knew Nickolas Cruz said they were not surprised. WE know which people pose a potential threat and do NOTHING???? And the only "solution" society can come up with is more gun control?

NOBODY is asking WHY the government is not being held accountable. NOBODY is asking for a crackdown on a government that simply observes the situation and does nothing to prevent it. It would take me a long post, but I can tell you exactly how Lakeland, Sandy Hook, Columbine, etc. could have been prevented. AND, best of all, it would not take very much money to start it. To sweeten the deal, if it were implemented, it would not only save lives, but tax dollars as well. But there won't be any gun control in the proposal.

THAT is why it has no appeal to the left or the right.

 

[Pop23]

You may have a misunderstanding of my position on all this. I'm a left-leaning Independent, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think this is one of the several issues on which the Right just becomes paralyzed by its ideology and is just unwilling to give an inch. While there are some on the Left who want to take it too far, most of the proposals I've seen seem perfectly reasonable. But the pro-gunners are conditioned to not budge one inch. They have been conditioned to equate cooperation with capitulation.

That said, I do believe there is a deeper issue, and that's a society in decay. We expose our young people (including, of course, young people who already damaged in some way) to an immense amount of mind-numbing violence and gore and hatred within our popular culture. And as much as the Right is unwilling to give an inch on guns, the Left is unwilling to admit that our popular culture is playing a role as well.

That's why I'd like to see the Right make some concessions, so we can turn our attention to our societal decay.
.

Here is the problem in a nutshell, however:

1 The gun control laws go far and beyond what the Constitution allows

2) The weapons the left seeks to outlaw are the most protected under our Constitution

3) The left has never offered up alternative ideas. And you have a point. The right refuses to consider any ideas other than more armed people. Adding insult to injury, the right refuses to put an new ideas on the table... and I have some ideas.

Now, here is where we might agree:

* The government starts children off, at an early age with drugs for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD. They never recover

* Soon these children are on SSRIs (and virtually ALL mass shooters are on SSRIs... Unless they are political jihadists

* So these kids sit at home never getting an education, never learning job skills, never having to learn how to solve a problem and many never do the things that were common in your era... like getting a driver's license

* In their mid 20s, these kids lose their insurance policy since the insurance company cuts them off at around 26

* These kids then become permanent drug addicts, buying drugs off the street because they have no insurance and a very expensive habit thanks to Uncle Scam. BTW, people are being put on drugs in exchange for a government disability condition when their condition is disabling, but NOT cause to be taking psychotropic drugs

* Over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply is consumed in the United States

In another thread, I listed the sixteen attributes of a mass shooter. If any child reaches eight of those attributes, they WILL commit a violent act in their lifetime.

Embarrassingly, for the United States we have the laws, the technology and the manpower - and most of the laws it takes to resolve this without gun control. It's just that neither side will investigate and get to the ROOT of gun violence. And it is not guns. Maybe the right realizes that over half of Americans are dependent upon a government check for their daily bread. Maybe the right knows that the United States already has more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

How can we ignore the drug culture and the societal problems it causes, beg for more trillions of tax dollars to implement more of the same and hope to fix America? How?

Again, I have a long and detailed plan that would require its own thread, but finding people to participate is almost impossible. Qualifications?

1) Raised in a broken home

2) Mother lived on welfare when I was a kid

3) Father stayed in prison a lot - was physically and verbally abusive

4) I ran away from home at 14 and overcame that

5) Was a DFACS asset taking in children when they were taken from parents and put into the custody of DFACS / CPS

6) Have a lot of relatives that have those kinds of mommies that make their children rely on mommy and government handouts for their existence.

7) Obtained both a legal and theological education

When you have lived it, rose above it and overcome it, then it should count towards having a relevant suggestion to end it. End the dependency culture and the drug culture - the gun violence will go down to minuscule numbers. Do YOU know what we need?

I was concentrating on popular culture, but you make an important point - we could look beyond popular culture - internet, video games, violence in TV, movies, video games - to our culture in general. Drugs, dependence, lowered standards and expectations, absent parents, etc.

Our young people are being damaged by both, and for us to pretend that these various influences are not causing damage is denial in the extreme.

One of my daughters is a teacher, kindergarten. The stories she tells me about both the children and their parents (when they're there) are absolutely depressing. The children are so wild and uncontrollable that the school is having trouble keeping teachers. I could go and on with examples, but I suspect you get my drift.

Laws and regulations can be changed relatively quickly, but a sick culture is going to take time. We have a long way to go.
.

What you say is right, but you're spending time trying to cut down weeds when you focus on firearms rather than the stuff we know is going on.

Among the items we KNOW, for a fact, are associated with mass shooters is an obsession with violent video games, movies, and one parent / dysfunctional families.

Part of solving the problem is admitting that we have a problem. And, at the end of the day, our government is the biggest problem, as they are the enablers... they may as well be the major drug dealer.

I have a problem with only your last sentence.

If they pass law, allowing this to happen, whether they profit directly from it or not, they are the major drug dealers.

Can you imagine the loss of votes a politician would have if he threatened to bring a bill about “common sense” use of medication?

As you pointed out, there are so many legal “junkies” or parents that have their children on these things, he/she would lose an election in landslide fashion.

I'm sorry that I failed in my articulation of the last sentence.

What happens with the government is that they farm out work to independent contractors. Those independent contractors use this cookie cutter model to deal with children. In other words, suppose that you have a young child is acting up in school. You take the child to an MD. The doctor says the child has ADD / ADHD and the Ritalin is then prescribed. It also might be that the child has a "welfare check" done by DFACS / CPS. DFACS / CPS (independent contractors) have a standing policy to put children on drugs.

I was being sarcastic when I said the government may as well be major drug dealers. In reality, there is no such thing as ADD / ADHD. Take those hyperactive kids in and give them a good diet, exercise, and some activities that stimulate their mind. Get rid of their "devices" (celll phone, lap top, tablets, etc.) make them clean up their rooms every day, and you soon learn that exercise, work, mentally stimulating exercises, diet, and a stable / nurturing atmosphere solves that condition.

Oh I understood completely, it was said somewhat sarcastically.

This whole gun ban movement is simply "look, is that a rabbit"? routine that has been tried a million times. No one want's to examine the cause, better just to blame the tool. This time it's the AR style rifle, before it was the full auto.

Banning the AR will not cure the school shooting problem. I don't think any serious person actually believes it will. The next one WILL use a semi auto pistol(s) or a shotgun, both of which are as deadly in close quarters, if not more so. And shooting in a school is close quarters.

Will those who support these bans admit they are wrong when the next shooting occur? Absolutely not, they put way to much political capital into this movement, so the next "look, is that a rabbit" movement will be put into place, and they go for more bans or restrictions.

To stop the problem is to look inwards, which you, and few others on this board have done, and I applaud you for clear headed thinking and a presentation that is simply incredible.

Well done Sir, and keep up the great work. Sane heads will prevail. Just hope it's not too late.

 

[hunarcy]

So, to start as your premise that gun owners haven't done enough is ridiculous on its face.

Let me try to flesh this out a bit.

I think that there are so many guns in this country that the cat is pretty much out of the bag, and that most gun regulations are missing the point, that those who break the laws won't follow any regulations anyway. I really do get that. I do think that background checks can be helpful, and that's one place where we need to look carefully. But for the most part, I get it.

HOWEVER...

As long as we're focused on guns and regulations, we're never going to get the root cause of this, and that's a culture that is creating crazies and/or making them much crazier. That's where the focus is going to remain, because those who control the conversation want it that way. And, for some reason, gun supporters don't seem to be able to multi-task and make a bigger issue of this.

So, if it were me, my long game would be to give in a bit on the regulations (at least on the margins, where there may be some agreement) so there would no longer be an excuse to avoid the bigger picture. Remember, laws and regulations can be changed, but a culture is a heavy lift and a process. But if we don't get to it, pressure for strict regulations will only get worse, because this culture is clearly in decay.
.

My long game is to do away with all the hundreds and hundreds of ineffective laws that do nothing but restrict MY rights while doing nothing to make us safer. THEN, we need to look at ways to control violence that has proven effective over time and give THAT a try, rather than trying to control behavior by regulating a thing.

 

[Humorme]

So, to start as your premise that gun owners haven't done enough is ridiculous on its face.

Let me try to flesh this out a bit.

I think that there are so many guns in this country that the cat is pretty much out of the bag, and that most gun regulations are missing the point, that those who break the laws won't follow any regulations anyway. I really do get that. I do think that background checks can be helpful, and that's one place where we need to look carefully. But for the most part, I get it.

HOWEVER...

As long as we're focused on guns and regulations, we're never going to get the root cause of this, and that's a culture that is creating crazies and/or making them much crazier. That's where the focus is going to remain, because those who control the conversation want it that way. And, for some reason, gun supporters don't seem to be able to multi-task and make a bigger issue of this.

So, if it were me, my long game would be to give in a bit on the regulations (at least on the margins, where there may be some agreement) so there would no longer be an excuse to avoid the bigger picture. Remember, laws and regulations can be changed, but a culture is a heavy lift and a process. But if we don't get to it, pressure for strict regulations will only get worse, because this culture is clearly in decay.
.

My long game is to do away with all the hundreds and hundreds of ineffective laws that do nothing but restrict MY rights while doing nothing to make us safer. THEN, we need to look at ways to control violence that has proven effective over time and give THAT a try, rather than trying to control behavior by regulating a thing.

I agree with you, but you have two immediate problems:

1) The Republicans and the gun rights organizations have offered up no such proposal - and I'm going to keep bitching about it until someone adopts my own proposals or puts something on the table

2) The solution is going to be opposed by a lot of people holding cushy jobs, profiting off the misery caused by neglecting the roots of the problem.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

The cultural phenomena you describe have the influence of breaking down morality and creating a more dangerous society. This is precisely what is desired by those in high positions of power.

Another great example is the war on drugs, implemented amidst much talk of the evils of drug abuse, as though the crackdown was ever intended to address that problem. It most certainly was not, as it is beyond reason to suppose that the lessons learned just a few decades earlier during alcohol prohibition were completely lost on government officials. And what has the predictable result been? The emergence of a violent black market, justifying more infringements into personal liberties, the militarization and expansion of police forces, and greater taxation.

So the issue you’re describing is an issue concerning the left to a greater extent than you’re suggesting. It is a power play being pedaled by puppets on the left, to their base, in order to create public outcry for policies that make progress in the direction of the long-term goal of full disarmament.

Though the cultural obsession with violence is important, the more relevant issue is the illogical mindset that permits reactionary fear to be accepted as a rational basis for regulatory policy. The world will always be dangerous (at least for the forseeable future), but to believe that the answer is more governmental control is always - in every circumstance - a dreadful mistake.

 

[Humorme]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

The cultural phenomena you describe have the influence of breaking down morality and creating a more dangerous society. This is precisely what is desired by those in high positions of power.

Another great example is the war on drugs, implemented amidst much talk of the evils of drug abuse, as though the crackdown was ever intended to address that problem. It most certainly was not, as it is beyond reason to suppose that the lessons learned just a few decades earlier during alcohol prohibition were completely lost on government officials. And what has the predictable result been? The emergence of a violent black market, justifying more infringements into personal liberties, the militarization and expansion of police forces, and greater taxation.

So the issue you’re describing is an issue concerning the left to a greater extent than you’re suggesting. It is a power play being pedaled by puppets on the left, to their base, in order to create public outcry for policies that make progress in the direction of the long-term goal of full disarmament.

Though the cultural obsession with violence is important, the more relevant issue is the illogical mindset that permits reactionary fear to be accepted as a rational basis for regulatory policy. The world will always be dangerous (at least for the forseeable future), but to believe that the answer is more governmental control is always - in every circumstance - a dreadful mistake.

First I agree with what you are saying. And I'm not trying to be a fly in the ointment, but a lot of people are echoing this sentiment. Only one person is advocating a solution where, ultimately, less government can actually reduce the bulk of gun violence.

 

[hunarcy]

So, to start as your premise that gun owners haven't done enough is ridiculous on its face.

Let me try to flesh this out a bit.

I think that there are so many guns in this country that the cat is pretty much out of the bag, and that most gun regulations are missing the point, that those who break the laws won't follow any regulations anyway. I really do get that. I do think that background checks can be helpful, and that's one place where we need to look carefully. But for the most part, I get it.

HOWEVER...

As long as we're focused on guns and regulations, we're never going to get the root cause of this, and that's a culture that is creating crazies and/or making them much crazier. That's where the focus is going to remain, because those who control the conversation want it that way. And, for some reason, gun supporters don't seem to be able to multi-task and make a bigger issue of this.

So, if it were me, my long game would be to give in a bit on the regulations (at least on the margins, where there may be some agreement) so there would no longer be an excuse to avoid the bigger picture. Remember, laws and regulations can be changed, but a culture is a heavy lift and a process. But if we don't get to it, pressure for strict regulations will only get worse, because this culture is clearly in decay.
.

My long game is to do away with all the hundreds and hundreds of ineffective laws that do nothing but restrict MY rights while doing nothing to make us safer. THEN, we need to look at ways to control violence that has proven effective over time and give THAT a try, rather than trying to control behavior by regulating a thing.

I agree with you, but you have two immediate problems:

1) The Republicans and the gun rights organizations have offered up no such proposal - and I'm going to keep bitching about it until someone adopts my own proposals or puts something on the table

2) The solution is going to be opposed by a lot of people holding cushy jobs, profiting off the misery caused by neglecting the roots of the problem.

But, last week, it was just me. Today, it's you and me. It'll be a long journey, but we can overcome such opposition if we persevere and keep doubling our numbers. ;-)

 

[Humorme]

So, to start as your premise that gun owners haven't done enough is ridiculous on its face.

Let me try to flesh this out a bit.

I think that there are so many guns in this country that the cat is pretty much out of the bag, and that most gun regulations are missing the point, that those who break the laws won't follow any regulations anyway. I really do get that. I do think that background checks can be helpful, and that's one place where we need to look carefully. But for the most part, I get it.

HOWEVER...

As long as we're focused on guns and regulations, we're never going to get the root cause of this, and that's a culture that is creating crazies and/or making them much crazier. That's where the focus is going to remain, because those who control the conversation want it that way. And, for some reason, gun supporters don't seem to be able to multi-task and make a bigger issue of this.

So, if it were me, my long game would be to give in a bit on the regulations (at least on the margins, where there may be some agreement) so there would no longer be an excuse to avoid the bigger picture. Remember, laws and regulations can be changed, but a culture is a heavy lift and a process. But if we don't get to it, pressure for strict regulations will only get worse, because this culture is clearly in decay.
.

My long game is to do away with all the hundreds and hundreds of ineffective laws that do nothing but restrict MY rights while doing nothing to make us safer. THEN, we need to look at ways to control violence that has proven effective over time and give THAT a try, rather than trying to control behavior by regulating a thing.

I agree with you, but you have two immediate problems:

1) The Republicans and the gun rights organizations have offered up no such proposal - and I'm going to keep bitching about it until someone adopts my own proposals or puts something on the table

2) The solution is going to be opposed by a lot of people holding cushy jobs, profiting off the misery caused by neglecting the roots of the problem.

But, last week, it was just me. Today, it's you and me. It'll be a long journey, but we can overcome such opposition if we persevere and keep doubling our numbers. ;-)

I haven't seen your proposed solutions. I've started posting the beginning of mine, but too many people lack critical thinking skills so they assume I'm advocating building a bigger government and / or advocating more criminal laws.

In fact, you don't have to do either. And if the right gets mad at my proposals, they have to remember it was one of their Tea Party Republicans, U.S. James Sensenbrenner that made my proposals possible with his cockamamie legislation. Let me give you a short synopsis of what I'm talking about:

I've identified sixteen attributes of mass shooters (and most of it applies to anyone who commits a violent act.) Among those attributes are a few that deal with governmental policies... the most conspicuous is the government's policies that makes drug addicts out of citizens. That's a separate issue regarding turning that policy around. In any event, if a child fits eight of the 16 attributes, they WILL commit an act of violence in their lifetime.

Suppose that in the case of Nickolas Cruz, they had a totally different approach. In the county would be an office manned by half a dozen specially trained agents. Every time Nickolas Cruz generated a report from ANY government agency or department) a copy ended up on the desk of this agency. When three reports come in that fit those sixteen attributes of a person who poses a threat to society, that agency springs into action.

The first stop is to Cruz's home. There the parents are notified of his behavior and a general assessment is made about the home. Is it a one parent home? Are the parents employed? Does the home look like a safe place or is it a dump? Does the family have any domestic issues? Are the parents alcoholics or drug abusers? In short, is the child being parented correctly? Do the parents have the mental, emotional, and financial capability to take care of the child?

While there, the agent will ask for written permission to do a drug test on the child. The parents have the right to deny permission, but are warned, it might make for a more difficult decision on what the government may recommend for this behavior.

The agents then investigate from where a report is generated. If a psychologist, psychiatrist, or other mental health official determines the individual is a threat to themselves and / or society, the agents can get a better picture from them as to what is going on.

Next, the agents will have the child assessed by two mental health officials - neither of which can speak to the other about the case. You want their assessments to be as impartial as possible. The child is given an IQ test, an interview to see if the child is mixed up in illegal acts, gangs, etc. Then, a drug test is conducted (with the parents permission.)

This information could tell the authorities many things. It might be the child lives in a one parent home and needs a mentor to guide him / her. The investigation might reveal an unsafe home or unfit parents that need parenting classes. It might mean a period of time wherein the child has to wear an ankle monitor or get individual tutoring classes - maybe be put in one on one and / or group therapy. It could be a combination of those things.

But, at the end of the day you don't wait until a kid has racked up thirty nine police calls to the home over domestic abuse; been suspended umpteen times for violent acts, been reported to the police numerous times for threatening and or dangerous behavior. You don't hand the child a bottle of pills and go about your day. You DO something. If a county has the money to drug kids, send children to Juvie Hall, send police to their home and make police reports, waste the time of the school system to generate reports and suspend children, then they already have the time and the money to DO something then and there.