CDZ Guns, Culture & Politics

[SeaGal]

Nope. "We" do not want to make this SOLELY about guns. That is you being dishonest or not paying attention to what "we" have said.

Fine...then let's talk about Haribo Gold Bears...and abortion, and death by car...and drug overdose deaths among teens, numbering in the hundreds each year. What does your 'we' say about the War on Drugs?...some folks want to send up the white flag - can you imagine that?

Let's talk about the river of tears your 'we' sheds over gang violence and shooting deaths in places like Chicago where they have strict gun regulation...hardly enough to fill a shallow pothole in the road to a progressive Utopia.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nope. "We" do not want to make this SOLELY about guns. That is you being dishonest or not paying attention to what "we" have said.

Fine...then let's talk about Haribo Gold Bears...and abortion, and death by car...and drug overdose deaths among teens, numbering in the hundreds each year. What does your 'we' say about the War on Drugs?...some folks want to send up the white flag - can you imagine that?

Let's talk about the river of tears your 'we' sheds over gang violence and shooting deaths in places like Chicago where they have strict gun regulation...hardly enough to fill a shallow pothole in the road to a progressive Utopia.

You go ahead and use your beloved Chicago as justification for all things. Go ahead and talk about abortion and cars and drugs. I'll talk about the things that impact shooting deaths.

 

[SeaGal]

Nope. "We" do not want to make this SOLELY about guns. That is you being dishonest or not paying attention to what "we" have said.

Fine...then let's talk about Haribo Gold Bears...and abortion, and death by car...and drug overdose deaths among teens, numbering in the hundreds each year. What does your 'we' say about the War on Drugs?...some folks want to send up the white flag - can you imagine that?

Let's talk about the river of tears your 'we' sheds over gang violence and shooting deaths in places like Chicago where they have strict gun regulation...hardly enough to fill a shallow pothole in the road to a progressive Utopia.

You go ahead and use your beloved Chicago as justification for all things. Go ahead and talk about abortion and cars and drugs. I'll talk about the things that impact shooting deaths.

So Mac said...

​

 

[Mac1958]

So Mac said...

Yep. Happens all the time.

The hardcore Left wants to make this about guns and not popular culture, because they pretty much OWN popular culture.

So bring up popular culture as a problem and they'll deny it, and deflect back to guns.
.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Nope. "We" do not want to make this SOLELY about guns. That is you being dishonest or not paying attention to what "we" have said.

Fine...then let's talk about Haribo Gold Bears...and abortion, and death by car...and drug overdose deaths among teens, numbering in the hundreds each year. What does your 'we' say about the War on Drugs?...some folks want to send up the white flag - can you imagine that?

Let's talk about the river of tears your 'we' sheds over gang violence and shooting deaths in places like Chicago where they have strict gun regulation...hardly enough to fill a shallow pothole in the road to a progressive Utopia.

You go ahead and use your beloved Chicago as justification for all things. Go ahead and talk about abortion and cars and drugs. I'll talk about the things that impact shooting deaths.

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

 

[LoneLaugher]

So Mac said...

Yep. Happens all the time.

The hardcore Left wants to make this about guns and not popular culture, because they pretty much OWN popular culture.

So bring up popular culture as a problem and they'll deny it, and deflect back to guns.
.

It's not about pop culture. It's also not SOLELY about guns. What's so hard for you to grasp about my position?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nope. "We" do not want to make this SOLELY about guns. That is you being dishonest or not paying attention to what "we" have said.

Fine...then let's talk about Haribo Gold Bears...and abortion, and death by car...and drug overdose deaths among teens, numbering in the hundreds each year. What does your 'we' say about the War on Drugs?...some folks want to send up the white flag - can you imagine that?

Let's talk about the river of tears your 'we' sheds over gang violence and shooting deaths in places like Chicago where they have strict gun regulation...hardly enough to fill a shallow pothole in the road to a progressive Utopia.

You go ahead and use your beloved Chicago as justification for all things. Go ahead and talk about abortion and cars and drugs. I'll talk about the things that impact shooting deaths.

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

The subject is gun violence in total. Not only in Chicago. Catch up.

 

[Mac1958]

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

They don't want to. So, they avoid it.
.

 

[hunarcy]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Mac, gun supporters have bent and allowed regulations on their rights since 1934. None of the "common sense" regulations that have been imposed over the last 84 years have been as effective as promised and in fact, some have made things worse. So, to start as your premise that gun owners haven't done enough is ridiculous on its face.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Nope. "We" do not want to make this SOLELY about guns. That is you being dishonest or not paying attention to what "we" have said.

Fine...then let's talk about Haribo Gold Bears...and abortion, and death by car...and drug overdose deaths among teens, numbering in the hundreds each year. What does your 'we' say about the War on Drugs?...some folks want to send up the white flag - can you imagine that?

Let's talk about the river of tears your 'we' sheds over gang violence and shooting deaths in places like Chicago where they have strict gun regulation...hardly enough to fill a shallow pothole in the road to a progressive Utopia.

You go ahead and use your beloved Chicago as justification for all things. Go ahead and talk about abortion and cars and drugs. I'll talk about the things that impact shooting deaths.

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

The subject is gun violence in total. Not only in Chicago. Catch up.

So it only matters if people get murdered with a gun

Thank you for proving my point that you people don't give a shit about the murder rate

 

[Mac1958]

So, to start as your premise that gun owners haven't done enough is ridiculous on its face.

Let me try to flesh this out a bit.

I think that there are so many guns in this country that the cat is pretty much out of the bag, and that most gun regulations are missing the point, that those who break the laws won't follow any regulations anyway. I really do get that. I do think that background checks can be helpful, and that's one place where we need to look carefully. But for the most part, I get it.

HOWEVER...

As long as we're focused on guns and regulations, we're never going to get the root cause of this, and that's a culture that is creating crazies and/or making them much crazier. That's where the focus is going to remain, because those who control the conversation want it that way. And, for some reason, gun supporters don't seem to be able to multi-task and make a bigger issue of this.

So, if it were me, my long game would be to give in a bit on the regulations (at least on the margins, where there may be some agreement) so there would no longer be an excuse to avoid the bigger picture. Remember, laws and regulations can be changed, but a culture is a heavy lift and a process. But if we don't get to it, pressure for strict regulations will only get worse, because this culture is clearly in decay.
.

 

[Pop23]

Nope. "We" do not want to make this SOLELY about guns. That is you being dishonest or not paying attention to what "we" have said.

Fine...then let's talk about Haribo Gold Bears...and abortion, and death by car...and drug overdose deaths among teens, numbering in the hundreds each year. What does your 'we' say about the War on Drugs?...some folks want to send up the white flag - can you imagine that?

Let's talk about the river of tears your 'we' sheds over gang violence and shooting deaths in places like Chicago where they have strict gun regulation...hardly enough to fill a shallow pothole in the road to a progressive Utopia.

You go ahead and use your beloved Chicago as justification for all things. Go ahead and talk about abortion and cars and drugs. I'll talk about the things that impact shooting deaths.

That's it? Shooting deaths? The only way you will drop it is to ban all guns, which might lower the numbers slightly, but what you fail to address is the fact that Murderers Murder, they don't really care what the tool is to accomplish that, they murder regardless. If it's not a gun, it's much easier to get a car and plow down several dozen with it?

The problem you have, is the 5'2" 90 lbs woman will have less tools to protect herself from the 6'4" rapist who does what rapists do, they rape.

Why are you advocating the passage of law, one that criminals will ignore anyways, which makes the weakest in our society even more vulnerable?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

They don't want to. So, they avoid it.
.

We want to. We do. You and Skull refuse to acknowledge when we do. It's a YOU problem.

This particular discussion is a refutation of your claim that "pop culture" is responsible for gun violence.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nope. "We" do not want to make this SOLELY about guns. That is you being dishonest or not paying attention to what "we" have said.

Fine...then let's talk about Haribo Gold Bears...and abortion, and death by car...and drug overdose deaths among teens, numbering in the hundreds each year. What does your 'we' say about the War on Drugs?...some folks want to send up the white flag - can you imagine that?

Let's talk about the river of tears your 'we' sheds over gang violence and shooting deaths in places like Chicago where they have strict gun regulation...hardly enough to fill a shallow pothole in the road to a progressive Utopia.

You go ahead and use your beloved Chicago as justification for all things. Go ahead and talk about abortion and cars and drugs. I'll talk about the things that impact shooting deaths.

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

The subject is gun violence in total. Not only in Chicago. Catch up.

So it only matters if people get murdered with a gun

Thank you for proving my point that you people don't give a shit about the murder rate

Nope. Never said that. Next strawman.

 

[Pop23]

So, to start as your premise that gun owners haven't done enough is ridiculous on its face.

Let me try to flesh this out a bit.

I think that there are so many guns in this country that the cat is pretty much out of the bag, and that most gun regulations are missing the point, that those who break the laws won't follow any regulations anyway. I really do get that. I do think that background checks can be helpful, and that's one place where we need to look carefully. But for the most part, I get it.

HOWEVER...

As long as we're focused on guns and regulations, we're never going to get the root cause of this, and that's a culture that is creating crazies and/or making them much crazier. That's where the focus is going to remain, because those who control the conversation want it that way. And, for some reason, gun supporters don't seem to be able to multi-task and make a bigger issue of this.

So, if it were me, my long game would be to give in a bit on the regulations (at least on the margins, where there may be some agreement) so there would no longer be an excuse to avoid the bigger picture. Remember, laws and regulations can be changed, but a culture is a heavy lift and a process. But if we don't get to it, pressure for strict regulations will only get worse, because this culture is clearly in decay.
.

The root of the problem is:

Murderers Murder
Rapists Rape
Violent Criminals don't care that you pass a law, they are accustom to ignoring them all.

If a murderer can't buy a gun, he will steal one or buy one from another criminal. If he can't find a gun, he will use a knife, a baseball bat or car.

It is however, amazing to me how, to stop a very small amount of murders, we eliminate the very tools that the weakest in our society can use to level the playing field with criminals.

Destined to have negative unintended consequences unless you figure out a way to get criminals to respect the law.

Not going to happen guys.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

They don't want to. So, they avoid it.
.

We want to. We do. You and Skull refuse to acknowledge when we do. It's a YOU problem.

This particular discussion is a refutation of your claim that "pop culture" is responsible for gun violence.

I have been trying to get you people to address where 70% of all murders occur

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fine...then let's talk about Haribo Gold Bears...and abortion, and death by car...and drug overdose deaths among teens, numbering in the hundreds each year. What does your 'we' say about the War on Drugs?...some folks want to send up the white flag - can you imagine that?

Let's talk about the river of tears your 'we' sheds over gang violence and shooting deaths in places like Chicago where they have strict gun regulation...hardly enough to fill a shallow pothole in the road to a progressive Utopia.

You go ahead and use your beloved Chicago as justification for all things. Go ahead and talk about abortion and cars and drugs. I'll talk about the things that impact shooting deaths.

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

The subject is gun violence in total. Not only in Chicago. Catch up.

So it only matters if people get murdered with a gun

Thank you for proving my point that you people don't give a shit about the murder rate

Nope. Never said that. Next strawman.

Murders and gun violence are inextricably related therefore ignoring the murder rate is ignoring the greater problem.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

They don't want to. So, they avoid it.
.

We want to. We do. You and Skull refuse to acknowledge when we do. It's a YOU problem.

This particular discussion is a refutation of your claim that "pop culture" is responsible for gun violence.

I have been trying to get you people to address where 70% of all murders occur

And we have. In many of the OTHER threads where you bring that up.

The sad part is that you won't even say what you WANT to say about it. Your PC is stopping you.

Start a thread on the topic and tag me. I'll respond sometime today.

Idiot.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then why aren't you talking about where almost 70% of all murders occur?

They don't want to. So, they avoid it.
.

We want to. We do. You and Skull refuse to acknowledge when we do. It's a YOU problem.

This particular discussion is a refutation of your claim that "pop culture" is responsible for gun violence.

I have been trying to get you people to address where 70% of all murders occur

And we have. In many of the OTHER threads where you bring that up.

The sad part is that you won't even say what you WANT to say about it. Your PC is stopping you.

Start a thread on the topic and tag me. I'll respond sometime today.

Idiot.

**** you

I'll bring up what the **** I want where the **** I want

 

[Humorme]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

I'm late to the party, but not too late to face off against you on this one.

The reality is,in the course of my life the gun owners have compromised and accepted the ban on full auto weapons, the ban on semi auto imports, the ban on our own M1 Garands and M1 carbines being allowed back into the U.S. We've accepted the Lautenberg Amendment (totally unconstitutional) and we let the left have the Assault Weapons Ban (which predictably failed.) We set back and even allowed the Brady Bill to pass. I can name numerous times gun owners have done nothing.

Okay, I've chastised the right for not putting a counter-proposal on the table many times. They simply won't respond, so first let me do that publicly:

If the right does not put a counter-proposal on the table (besides arming teachers and making schools look like prisons) YOU WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT. In order to WIN, you have to exhaust all of your non-violent legal and political avenues of redress before resorting to extraordinary actions. And you might think well when they come for them... we all know the rhetoric. We're going to resist a tyrannical government when we cannot agree long enough to have a conversation on a discussion board?

We can severely cut violence down to minimal occurrences without gun control We don't have to spend a lot of money; we don't have to jeopardize anybody's rights; it can be implemented within weeks. The anti gunners will not join the effort because what they really want is a gun free society.

The gun control fanatics do no have any legal, moral, constitutional, or ethical basis for threatening to take people's firearms. They cannot even do the math

400 MILLION privately held firearms
Over 125 MILLION individual gun owners

VERSUS

A U.S. military with UNDER 1.5 million personnel- a few of which will NOT draw down on their American brethren.