Gunny's Thread on Religion

[Joe_Penalty]

What was said about Helios was symbolism in mythology.

Here you see the classic theistic method: Change your claims whenever they cannot stand so that you can claim they've not been refuted

Just ask God to show you a sign that he exists and look for the sign (be sincere when you say it). Then report back to the message boards.

And I'm back..

Doesn't exist.

I tried about three dozen gods and none of them are real.

Three dozen times does not sound like a sincerity.

Please explain how I changed my claim. I have made no such claim. I simply challenged your assertion that God (Abrahamic) did not exist and you already know what you said.

But you have to think on a deeper level than the current one you are choosing to think. Words have different meanings. You cannot be that closed minded. You sound like, instead of wanting to learn, you just want to prove that God does not exist. You give the impression that you completely understand everything. When it is obvious, that understanding is what you lack.

So my question to you is; What are your intentions, to prove that God does not exist, or to actually learn something?

 

[logical4u]

These are about what people believe (they cannot disprove the existance of G*d). Their futile attempts of logical arguements are highly selective

this should be good...

and do not look at everyday wonders and facts: the amount of food varieties,

So the fact that we evolved to eat a variety of energy/nutrient sources proves your god?

Care to demonstrate?


So your god is evidenced by the fact that we evoked to suit our environment? Why is the test of the known universe so unkind to our physiology, then, if you wish to try this "suitable environment" argument?

They would tell you these thing (miraculously ) happened,

Where did you user you quoted claim "miracles"?

Where are the numbers for those the atheists killed (you might call them communists)?

So now atheist = communists?

Are you really that uninformed, or are you just being willfully ignorant?

Look, evolutionists believe that there was a great explosion and that stars, planets and space debris came into existance. They have no explanation for what caused the explosion, no comprehensive explanation of why galaxies formed (versus one giant galaxy), no explanation of why out of all the planets they have discovered, only the earth positively can support life as we know it.
Then evolutionists want us to believe that out of pure coincidence life started (or maybe it was some cells stuck on a meteorite), after billions and billions of years of the earth cooling and establishing an atmosphere. That "life" "got busy" in the "swamps" and "evolved" (miraculous transformation) into "other forms" of life. They cannot explain why that would happen or if it "actually" happened (you just have to have faith in them because no one can prove any different as of today). So out of one cell, millions of life forms evolved into very distinctive species that have remained virtually unchanged (in a world where everything was going crazy evolving into other species, when man started documenting the species, all that evolving just STOPPED) since man identified the species and notated said species.
Evolutionists all over the world have been searching for living proof of evolution for over 100 years and they can't produce one case of a species "evolving" into another species (this does not include selective breeding). But the evolutionists continue to have the "faith" that men evolved from that original extremely primitive life. Every skeleton found is examined and if it is not a perfect human, an evolutionist will pretend it is part of the evolutionist chain of man's march from apehood. The same evolutionists cannot explain why we have the variety of life on this planet that we do: according to their theories, if a species was successful, there would be no reason for it to evolve farther as they have stated as a reason to why apes have not continued to evolve (since theoretically they could eventually become men, but that hasn't seen any movement either).
When you take a step back and look, the evolutionists have more faith (in men) than the people that believe in the Lord have faith (in the Lord). The difference: the Lord's believers have been writing his word for eons (yes, that is thousands of years), the evolutionist have been writing men's word (unsubstanciated) for decades. It is a matter of reason to where you will put your faith.

 

[JenT]

These are about what people believe (they cannot disprove the existance of G*d). Their futile attempts of logical arguements are highly selective

this should be good...


So the fact that we evolved to eat a variety of energy/nutrient sources proves your god?

Care to demonstrate?


So your god is evidenced by the fact that we evoked to suit our environment? Why is the test of the known universe so unkind to our physiology, then, if you wish to try this "suitable environment" argument?




Where did you user you quoted claim "miracles"?

Where are the numbers for those the atheists killed (you might call them communists)?

So now atheist = communists?

Are you really that uninformed, or are you just being willfully ignorant?

Look, evolutionists believe that there was a great explosion and that stars, planets and space debris came into existance. They have no explanation for what caused the explosion, no comprehensive explanation of why galaxies formed (versus one giant galaxy), no explanation of why out of all the planets they have discovered, only the earth positively can support life as we know it.
Then evolutionists want us to believe that out of pure coincidence life started (or maybe it was some cells stuck on a meteorite), after billions and billions of years of the earth cooling and establishing an atmosphere. That "life" "got busy" in the "swamps" and "evolved" (miraculous transformation) into "other forms" of life. They cannot explain why that would happen or if it "actually" happened (you just have to have faith in them because no one can prove any different as of today). So out of one cell, millions of life forms evolved into very distinctive species that have remained virtually unchanged (in a world where everything was going crazy evolving into other species, when man started documenting the species, all that evolving just STOPPED) since man identified the species and notated said species.
Evolutionists all over the world have been searching for living proof of evolution for over 100 years and they can't produce one case of a species "evolving" into another species (this does not include selective breeding). But the evolutionists continue to have the "faith" that men evolved from that original extremely primitive life. Every skeleton found is examined and if it is not a perfect human, an evolutionist will pretend it is part of the evolutionist chain of man's march from apehood. The same evolutionists cannot explain why we have the variety of life on this planet that we do: according to their theories, if a species was successful, there would be no reason for it to evolve farther as they have stated as a reason to why apes have not continued to evolve (since theoretically they could eventually become men, but that hasn't seen any movement either).
When you take a step back and look, the evolutionists have more faith (in men) than the people that believe in the Lord have faith (in the Lord). The difference: the Lord's believers have been writing his word for eons (yes, that is thousands of years), the evolutionist have been writing men's word (unsubstanciated) for decades. It is a matter of reason to where you will put your faith.

well said!

Lately I've also been wondering, Who defines what works and what doesn't work in the evo-world? I mean, if it's all just by chance, then Who engraved it as successful and keyed it into DNA as such? If there is no divine intelligence orchestrating the creations, then how would life be able to define itself in any way whatsoever? SomeOne had to judge the parameters of every living component or we would have as many different bloodtypes as the bazillions of years evos claim to need, we would have various types of skins, some that supported a shape and some that sort of blobbed into goo sometimes and sometimes didn't. We'd have so many variations of every kind of possibility, someOne had to define it, to shape it, to accept it into the DNA blueprint, it's inescapable. And obvious. To everyone except those who demand there is no Creator because they want to be accountable only to themselves.

Sort of like kindergarten runs amuck until the Teacher shows up.

 

[froggy]

[QUOTE To everyone except those who demand there is no Creator because they want to be accountable only to themselves.
[/QUOTE]

after thier death bed they will be accountable for themselves for sure. no way out of that then.

 

[Setarcos]

Look, evolutionists believe that there was a great explosion and that stars, planets and space debris came into existance.

Do cite any scientific literature on evolution which claims ToE posits any such thing.

Then evolutionists want us to believe that out of pure coincidence life started

So your objection is that you don't feel special if your god didn't make you?

That "life" "got busy" in the "swamps" and "evolved" (miraculous transformation) into "other forms" of life

Such 'magical transformation' happens ever day. Ever heard of MRSA?
\
\

Evolutionists all over the world have been searching for living proof of evolution for over 100 years and they can't produce one case of a species "evolving" into another species

Let's Google that

 

[Setarcos]

Lately I've also been wondering, Who defines what works and what doesn't work in the evo-world? I mean, if it's all just by chance, then Who engraved it as successful and keyed it into DNA as such?

Noone engraved anything. Do try to learn the fundamentals of the science prior to interrupting the discussion.

 

[stinkinlibs]

i noticed your hiding in here SETERCOS are you scared to answer the question?

 

[amrchaos]

What was said about Helios was symbolism in mythology.

That is a riddle, each word represents something else, and what happened to seventeen degrees? But anyway, that still does not prove that God does not exist. You are such a surface dweller, you have to be able to solve or figure out things, or at least scratch beneath the surface. I know how YOU can prove if God exists. Just ask God to show you a sign that he exists and look for the sign (be sincere when you say it). Then report back to the message boards.

Who eats of the tree of sorrows? What fruit grows on the tree of sorrows? (Hint: not what you find on google)

I'm curious, can I, too, prove god's existence in this way? Or did the capitalized YOU mean only Setarcos can?

Sure.

I once prayed to god to announce to the entire world, in all the languages, with a booming voice in the sky, that he exists and pronounce which religions are truth and which are not.
(that was actually in two prayers!!)

I am still waiting for a response. If I let a religious loon interpret this, he/she would claim I was not sincere enough. Bottomline, I did not have enough faith.

 

[Avatar4321]

I once prayed to god to announce to the entire world, in all the languages, with a booming voice in the sky, that he exists and pronounce which religions are truth and which are not.
(that was actually in two prayers!!)

I am still waiting for a response. If I let a religious loon interpret this, he/she would claim I was not sincere enough. Bottomline, I did not have enough faith.

I think you recieved your response. It was a no.

 

[logical4u]

Look, evolutionists believe that there was a great explosion and that stars, planets and space debris came into existance.

Do cite any scientific literature on evolution which claims ToE posits any such thing.

Then evolutionists want us to believe that out of pure coincidence life started

So your objection is that you don't feel special if your god didn't make you?

That "life" "got busy" in the "swamps" and "evolved" (miraculous transformation) into "other forms" of life

Such 'magical transformation' happens ever day. Ever heard of MRSA?
\
\

Evolutionists all over the world have been searching for living proof of evolution for over 100 years and they can't produce one case of a species "evolving" into another species

Let's Google that

My point was: evolutionists "faith" is a lot harder to "believe" than the "faith" of the Almighty Creator.

 

[logical4u]

I'm curious, can I, too, prove god's existence in this way? Or did the capitalized YOU mean only Setarcos can?

Sure.

I once prayed to god to announce to the entire world, in all the languages, with a booming voice in the sky, that he exists and pronounce which religions are truth and which are not.
(that was actually in two prayers!!)

I am still waiting for a response. If I let a religious loon interpret this, he/she would claim I was not sincere enough. Bottomline, I did not have enough faith.

The religions of Abraham (Judaism, Christianity, and muslim), believe the Lord will make this announcement when He comes to judge the living and the dead. There will be thunder, lightning, the disappearing of islands, earthquakes and a lot of light along with the voices of angels, and then finally of the Lord. At that point, if not well before, you should hit your knees and beg forgiveness of being such a weak being (I do this, I am not implying that I am any better, just that we are, all, sinners), and beg, BEG for mercy.

If you read the OT books, you can get a vague idea of the power of the Lord. It is a wonderful thing to believe that power can be used for your protection (a lot tougher than any gov on the face of the earth).

 

[froggy]

back in Deuteronomy days women who were found not to be virgin after marring were stoned to death by the townsmen,fornifacators (both man and woman) were stoned to death if that were the punishment now days i wonder if the sin would be that plenty.

 

[Care4all]

Adultery also was considered stealing another man's possessions....this is why it was a major sin.... Women did not have freedom as today, they could not work for a living either and they could not ask for a divorce, but the man could....this is how it was until the 19th/20th century I believe....?

 

[logical4u]

Adultery also was considered stealing another man's possessions....this is why it was a major sin.... Women did not have freedom as today, they could not work for a living either and they could not ask for a divorce, but the man could....this is how it was until the 19th/20th century I believe....?

Yeshua put women on equal footing with men:
He forgave the woman that committed adultery (and told her to: STOP THAT)
Women were among His teachers and witnesses
When the elitists tried to trap him about Moses and the laws of divorce, Yeshua explained that a man or woman (that remarried in the same state of sin as when divorced) were guilty of adultery. Before this, just the woman was held accountable. Women were now responsible for their own lives, just as men (it took men longer to figure that out, some still haven't).

The laws of the OT were because men did not have G*d written on their hearts. After Yeshua, every man is born with G*d written on their hearts (they know of a spiritual being, far, far greater than themselves), and the laws do not need to be as finite (your children will not be held accountable, by the Lord, for your sins).

 

[midcan5]

An interesting piece on a debate that may never end, only immortality on earth would end it or would it?

Appendix: 36 ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD

The Cosmological Argument

1. Everything that exists must have a cause.
2. The universe must have a cause (from 1).
3. Nothing can be the cause of itself.
4. The universe cannot be the cause of itself (from 3).
5. Something outside the universe must have caused the universe (from 2 & 4).
6. God is the only thing that is outside of the universe.
7. God caused the universe (from 5 & 6).
8. God exists.

Edge: 36 ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD —  By Rebecca Newberger Goldstein

Edge 305

 

[Kalam]

An interesting piece on a debate that may never end, only immortality on earth would end it or would it?

Appendix: 36 ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD

The Cosmological Argument

1. Everything that exists must have a cause.
2. The universe must have a cause (from 1).
3. Nothing can be the cause of itself.
4. The universe cannot be the cause of itself (from 3).
5. Something outside the universe must have caused the universe (from 2 & 4).
6. God is the only thing that is outside of the universe.
7. God caused the universe (from 5 & 6).
8. God exists.

Edge: 36 ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD —* By Rebecca Newberger Goldstein

Edge 305

I used to use the cosmological argument. The problem is that a cause-effect relationship requires the passage of time, which, of course, did not exist until matter and the universe came into being.

 

[mattskramer]

An interesting piece on a debate that may never end, only immortality on earth would end it or would it?

Appendix: 36 ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD

The Cosmological Argument

1. Everything that exists must have a cause.
2. The universe must have a cause (from 1).
3. Nothing can be the cause of itself.
4. The universe cannot be the cause of itself (from 3).
5. Something outside the universe must have caused the universe (from 2 & 4).
6. God is the only thing that is outside of the universe.
7. God caused the universe (from 5 & 6).
8. God exists.

Edge: 36 ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD —* By Rebecca Newberger Goldstein

Edge 305

Premise number 1 and 2 is debatable. The universe might have always existed in some form. There is the pulsating universe theory.

See Cosmological argument - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kalam]

The universe might have always existed in some form. There is the pulsating universe theory.

Not likely... the universe's rate of expansion is increasing and there seems to be no indication that the trend will reverse.

WMAP- Fate of the Universe

 

[midcan5]

Found Rebecca very close to my own opinions of religion.

Interesting if you can listen and work or whatever.

36 reasons for God
Bloggingheads.tv - The Atheist Soul

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/36-Arguments-Existence-God-Fiction/dp/0307378187/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: 36 Arguments for the Existence of God: A Work of Fiction (9780307378187): Rebecca Goldstein: Books[/ame]

 

[froggy]

Adultery also was considered stealing another man's possessions....this is why it was a major sin.... Women did not have freedom as today, they could not work for a living either and they could not ask for a divorce, but the man could....this is how it was until the 19th/20th century I believe....?

Does knowing that make you a manhater?