Gun control works….two 13 year old boys shot in Britain. You know, where guns were banned and confiscated.

[2aguy]

At best, this is an allusion to a post-hoc fallacy.
As such, this does nothing to demonstrate the necessary relatioinship between the gun laws in the UK and their lower rate of gun-related crime, as per you claim
Feel free to try again.

Wait.......

Does...

"But he says so...." Count?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Wait.......
Does...
"But he says so...." Count?

Personally, I don't think he understands the challenge I put to him.
Or, he understands it all too wll and knows he can't meet it.

 

[Captain Caveman]

You can always tell when 2aguy wants to deflect, you get a prolonged cut and paste post (#132 for example) as he tries to bury your point in a torrent of BS.

Yes, I've noticed, just loads of copy and pasted crap.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Overall, UK has much lower murder rate then USA.

 

[Man of Ethics]

You're more likely to get shot in Sweden than you are in the UK.

Thank you!

RIP all people who died by guns.

 

[surada]

I know hitler was a socialist. That you do not know this is the problem with people like you……

Hitler split with the socialists in 1926.. In 1933 he purged the German government of Socialists, Communists, Democrats and Jews.. He killed them or put them in Dachau.

You have NO education.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Nazis believed in Survival of the Fittest.

I oppose that 100%. Every Human Life has paramount value.

 

[Vagabond63]

Yes, I've noticed, just loads of copy and pasted crap.

...and when that fails, he starts on strawman non-questions, which, when you answer, he just moves the goalposts, sad and pathetic desperate attempts to salvage his debunked "arguments"

 

[Vagabond63]

As such, this does nothing to demonstrate the necessary relatioinship between the gun laws in the UK and their lower rate of gun-related crime, as per you claim

Erm,
1. what's a "necessary relatioinship"?
2. not my "claim", just stating facts.

 

[Vagabond63]

Nazis believed in Survival of the Fittest.

I oppose that 100%. Every Human Life has paramount value.

Just like right-wing conservatives everywhere.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Erm,
1. what's a "necessary relatioinship"?

Cause and effect.
B is the necessary result of A, and only exists because of it.

2. not my "claim", just stating facts.

Your post implies that your "facts" prove gun regulations work
For that to be true, you must demonstrate the necessary relationship you claim between those gun regulations and the "facts" you provided

 

[2aguy]

...and when that fails, he starts on strawman non-questions, which, when you answer, he just moves the goalposts, sad and pathetic desperate attempts to salvage his debunked "arguments"

You never answered the actual questions...real world questions about actual situations.......here....

How is this a straw man "non-question," when it is based on a woman gang raped in a London Park? With the mayor of London stating women are not safe in London?

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?


Then you have this....this is how gun control works in Britain...the rich and connected get guns...women who can be raped in parks, their apartments or on the street do not....


The British government will not allow a woman to own and carry a gun to prevent being gang raped in a London park.....saying she does not have "good reason," to own the gun.

A member of the House of Lords wants to quail hunt with his rich friends on his private country estate, and the British government gives him the gun....because he has "good reason."

Does this make any sense?

 

[2aguy]

Hitler split with the socialists in 1926.. In 1933 he purged the German government of Socialists, Communists, Democrats and Jews.. He killed them or put them in Dachau.

You have NO education.

No...actually, he didn't.....he just took over the party.....

Yes...he first took guns away from the Jews, his political enemies and anyone they thought might be a threat...then they murdered them...in Germany and the rest of Europe....

12 million innocent men, women and children murdered in a period of about 6 years....

Meanwhile, in the U.S......870,000 people were murdered with guns over a period of 87 years.....the majority of those murdered were criminals, murdered by other criminals engaged in crime.....they were not innocents....

Of the rest, the vast majority are the friends and family of criminals, hit in the gun fire when their criminal family member or friend got in the way of the other criminal shooting.....

12 million in 6 years....

870,000 in 87 years...

The sad thing is you don't think it could happen again.......

 

[2aguy]

Just like right-wing conservatives everywhere.

Moron....Right Wing conservatives in the U.S. are not Right wing (actually leftists too) in Europe.....we believe in the separation of powers, checks and balances, and the Bill of Rights....

You, with your desire to limit Rights and empower government are the wrong one here...

 

[bodecea]

Overall, UK has much lower murder rate then USA.

Gun control works...here, it's 2 a day.

 

[surada]

No...actually, he didn't.....he just took over the party.....

Yes...he first took guns away from the Jews, his political enemies and anyone they thought might be a threat...then they murdered them...in Germany and the rest of Europe....

12 million innocent men, women and children murdered in a period of about 6 years....

Meanwhile, in the U.S......870,000 people were murdered with guns over a period of 87 years.....the majority of those murdered were criminals, murdered by other criminals engaged in crime.....they were not innocents....

Of the rest, the vast majority are the friends and family of criminals, hit in the gun fire when their criminal family member or friend got in the way of the other criminal shooting.....

12 million in 6 years....

870,000 in 87 years...

The sad thing is you don't think it could happen again.......

How do you know what I think? Hitler used the Socialists to get his foot in the door and formally broke with them in 1926.

 

[2aguy]

Gun control works...here, it's 2 a day.

And how does gun control stop criminals in Britain from getting illegal guns...or shooting up malls, schools, theaters or churches?

You guys are under the illusion that criminals and their culture stays the same......it doesn't....the immigrant drug gangs

How did gun control stop this....

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK

Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.

Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.
==========

Powerful automatic guns are being smuggled into Britain for use by organised crime gangs.

The National Crime Agency and police seized weapons in raids on the homes of previously untouchable “Mr Big”s after receiving intelligence from European detectives who broke an encrypted phone network used by drug dealers and gun traffickers.

Gangs bring rapid‑fire guns to Britain’s streets

cotland Yard today said police are seizing more deadly automatic weapons from criminals in London as detectives revealed that an innocent bystander was gunned down with a suspected Skorpion sub-machine gun last month .

Rise in sub-machine guns on London streets

A former undercover cop who snared members of the Burger Bar Boys has warned violent gangs are in an “arms race” to control the West Midlands’ illegal drugs trade.

Neil Woods, now a campaigner to legalise recreational drugs for rehabilitation benefits, said criminals are willing to use “extreme violence” to gain an upper hand on their competitors.

That includes “importing” illegal firearms from places like the “Balkans” region of south eastern Europe onto the streets of the West Midlands, ready for combat.

UK Gangs In "Arms Race" Despite Gun Control Laws

Diana Fawcett, the charity's chief executive, told Sky News: "At a time when the number of homicides has been falling, deaths related to gun crime are showing significant increases which is incredibly concerning.More than 600 children in the UK were arrested for suspected firearm offences last year amid the coronavirus pandemic, new figures reveal.
A Sky News investigation has found children as young as 11 were among more than 2,000 youths detained for alleged crimes involving guns, imitation firearms and air weapons between 2018 and January 2021.
-----
Simeon Moore, who carried a gun aged 15 when he was a member of a notorious Birmingham gang, said young people arming themselves often believe they are doing "the right thing".
---
"From knives, we started to carry guns. For me, at the time it was a means of protection.
"I was walking around and at any point I could get beat up, stabbed or have my head blown off.
https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-hundreds-of-children-arrested-for-suspected-gun-crimes-during-covid-pandemic-including-some-just-12-12238859
==============

Liverpool gangs 'dominate' gun and drugs trade outside London


Organised criminal gangs from Liverpool have risen to the summit of the UK underworld and “dominate” the firearms and drugs-trade outside London, the latest intelligence from senior officers at the National Crime Agency (NCA) reveals.
---
Analysis of encrypted messages from a communications system used by criminals has shown that the city has become the preeminent location for top-tier gangs sourcing high-volume importations of drugs and automatic weapons.
------

Analysis by the NFTC found that Merseyside and the broader north-west corridor was home to a network of gun factories converting low-calibre weapons such as the Czech-made Škorpion and Slovakian Grand Power into deadly automatic firearms.

Perfect said that converting weapons was seen by some in the region as a viable business.

A low-calibre Glock handgun bought for £135 in eastern Europe could be converted in just 90 seconds to a 9mm weapon that could be sold for up to £5,000.
-----
nalysis of the intelligence from EncroChat has revealed other surprises to firearms officers. Perfect said:

“If you’d asked me before Venetic what was the firearm of choice for an organised crime group, I’d have absolutely said the Glock handgun. Venetic showed that the Škorpion SMG and the Grand Power are now becoming that weapon of choice.”

 

[2aguy]

How do you know what I think? Hitler used the Socialists to get his foot in the door and formally broke with them in 1926.

He was a socialist....but you guys have been trying to lie about him since the Death Camps were discovered.......if you can't unload him, then all of the worst mass murders since 1917 happened at the hands of left wing socialists...and the communist mass murders are still hidden behind a veil of stupidity by people like you.....

 

[surada]

And how does gun control stop criminals in Britain from getting illegal guns...or shooting up malls, schools, theaters or churches?

You guys are under the illusion that criminals and their culture stays the same......it doesn't....the immigrant drug gangs

How did gun control stop this....

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK

Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.

Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.
==========

Powerful automatic guns are being smuggled into Britain for use by organised crime gangs.

The National Crime Agency and police seized weapons in raids on the homes of previously untouchable “Mr Big”s after receiving intelligence from European detectives who broke an encrypted phone network used by drug dealers and gun traffickers.

Gangs bring rapid‑fire guns to Britain’s streets

cotland Yard today said police are seizing more deadly automatic weapons from criminals in London as detectives revealed that an innocent bystander was gunned down with a suspected Skorpion sub-machine gun last month .

Rise in sub-machine guns on London streets

A former undercover cop who snared members of the Burger Bar Boys has warned violent gangs are in an “arms race” to control the West Midlands’ illegal drugs trade.

Neil Woods, now a campaigner to legalise recreational drugs for rehabilitation benefits, said criminals are willing to use “extreme violence” to gain an upper hand on their competitors.

That includes “importing” illegal firearms from places like the “Balkans” region of south eastern Europe onto the streets of the West Midlands, ready for combat.

UK Gangs In "Arms Race" Despite Gun Control Laws

Diana Fawcett, the charity's chief executive, told Sky News: "At a time when the number of homicides has been falling, deaths related to gun crime are showing significant increases which is incredibly concerning.More than 600 children in the UK were arrested for suspected firearm offences last year amid the coronavirus pandemic, new figures reveal.
A Sky News investigation has found children as young as 11 were among more than 2,000 youths detained for alleged crimes involving guns, imitation firearms and air weapons between 2018 and January 2021.
-----
Simeon Moore, who carried a gun aged 15 when he was a member of a notorious Birmingham gang, said young people arming themselves often believe they are doing "the right thing".
---
"From knives, we started to carry guns. For me, at the time it was a means of protection.
"I was walking around and at any point I could get beat up, stabbed or have my head blown off.
https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-hundreds-of-children-arrested-for-suspected-gun-crimes-during-covid-pandemic-including-some-just-12-12238859
==============

Liverpool gangs 'dominate' gun and drugs trade outside London


Organised criminal gangs from Liverpool have risen to the summit of the UK underworld and “dominate” the firearms and drugs-trade outside London, the latest intelligence from senior officers at the National Crime Agency (NCA) reveals.
---
Analysis of encrypted messages from a communications system used by criminals has shown that the city has become the preeminent location for top-tier gangs sourcing high-volume importations of drugs and automatic weapons.
------

Analysis by the NFTC found that Merseyside and the broader north-west corridor was home to a network of gun factories converting low-calibre weapons such as the Czech-made Škorpion and Slovakian Grand Power into deadly automatic firearms.

Perfect said that converting weapons was seen by some in the region as a viable business.

A low-calibre Glock handgun bought for £135 in eastern Europe could be converted in just 90 seconds to a 9mm weapon that could be sold for up to £5,000.
-----
nalysis of the intelligence from EncroChat has revealed other surprises to firearms officers. Perfect said:

“If you’d asked me before Venetic what was the firearm of choice for an organised crime group, I’d have absolutely said the Glock handgun. Venetic showed that the Škorpion SMG and the Grand Power are now becoming that weapon of choice.”

They don't have a wild, wild west culture in the UK or in Europe. Guns are for gentlemen not thugs and cowboys.

 

[2aguy]

No it wasn't. You keep repeating this copy/paste BS. Clearly following Herr Goebbels' "repeat a lie often enough and it becomes truth" dictum. it's called the Illusion of truth, or the big lie, as you like to call it nowadays.

The difference......between Britain and the U.S....

"The rape was reported to have occurred in Watling Park off Cressingham Road in Edgware at approximately 21:30hrs on Saturday, 28 August.

"The victim, a woman in her 50s, continues to be supported by specially trained officers.

Woman in her 50s raped in London park in horror attack as police search for man

The Met Police want to speak to a man recorded on CCTV walking through Burnt Oak station after a woman in her 50s was raped walking through Watling Park, Edgware

www.dailystar.co.uk

The U.S.....

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.

There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.

Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.


So, again.....

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?

=====

The British government will not allow a woman to own and carry a gun to prevent being gang raped in a London park.....saying she does not have "good reason," to own the gun.


A member of the House of Lords wants to quail hunt with his rich friends on his private country estate, and the British government gives him the gun....because he has "good reason."

Does this make sense to you?