Gun control works….two 13 year old boys shot in Britain. You know, where guns were banned and confiscated.

[Blues Man]

You don't pay the government to learn how to drive a car, you pay a qualified instructor. Do you pay to take a driving test in the USA?

Driving a car isn't a right, it is a privilege granted by state governments and can be revoked at any time for just about any reason.

 

[2aguy]

Interesting, how is mandatory training in the safe use and keeping of firearms an "arbitrary and capricious precondition" same applies to a permit to own. If that's the case, you equally cannot ban criminals from owning firearms. Where does the 2nd ammendment state, "except for criminals"?

It is used as an arbitrary precondition in Europe.....with rules and fees so high that normal people can't comply with them......we have already had experience in this area when the democrat party enacted fees and literacy tests to prevent blacks from being able to vote......training requirements and fees are now being used to deny people the ability to own and carry guns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Interesting, how is mandatory training in the safe use and keeping of firearms an "arbitrary and capricious precondition"

My whole statement:
It places an arbitrary and capricious precondition on the exercise of the right not inherent to same.

"Training" necessitates standards. Standards of training are arbitrary - what might constitute sufficient training to you might easily be seen as excising, excessive, and/or unobtainable to people less phobic of firearms. Thus, arbitrary.
"Capricious" simply means these standards can change at any time, on a whim.
And them there's "not inherent to the exercise" - nothing about the right to keep and bear arms held by the people necessitates that said people have some sort of training as a precondition to the exercise of same.

same applies to a permit to own.

The requirement of a permit for the basic exercise of the right to keep and bear arms infringes upon that right in the same way a requirement for a permit to have an abortion or vote or go to church.
Rights to do not originate with the state and thus, the state has no standing to issue a permit -- that is, give permission - to exercise them at the basic level.

If that's the case, you equally cannot ban criminals from owning firearms.

Non seq. There's no necessary translation from one idea to the other.

Where does the 2nd ammendment state, "except for criminals"?

Ah. You are ignorant of 2A jurisprudence. No surprise.
Lewis v. United States, 445 U.S. 55 (1980
United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, 494 U.S. 259 (1990),

 

[M14 Shooter]

You don't pay the government to learn how to drive a car, you pay a qualified instructor. Do you pay to take a driving test in the USA?

As you do not need a license to buy a car, own a car, possess a car or operatte a car on private property, or transpoert a car on public property, whatever poin tyou think you have here is moot.

Indeed - a person convicted of mulriple vehicular homicides can own as many cars as he wants.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Requiring voter ID is not the same thing.

The meaningful exercise of the right to vote depends on two things:
- The prospective voter is who he says he is
- The prospective voter is voting where he is required to vote

As the state has a compelling interest in protecting the meaningful right to vote, and the requirement for a prospective voter to produce valid state identification is the least restrictive means to do so, the requirement for an ID to vote is constitutionally sound.

 

[Vagabond63]

nothing about the right to keep and bear arms held by the people necessitates that said people have some sort of training as a precondition to the exercise of same.

"A well regulated militia..." Implies drill and training?

Ah. You are ignorant of 2A jurisprudence. No surprise.

Nothing to do with the text of the 2nd amendment. Where Does the 2nd ammendment iteslf state, "except for criminals"?

As you do not need a license to buy a car, own a car, possess a car or operatte a car on private property, or transpoert a car on public property, whatever poin tyou think you have here is moot.

Indeed - a person convicted of mulriple vehicular homicides can own as many cars as he wants.

Cam he drive them on public roads without a license?

 

[Vagabond63]

t is used as an arbitrary precondition in Europe.....with rules and fees so high that normal people can't comply with them....

More BS. Buying a rifle, a gun safe and getting a firearms certificate in the UK costs around $3-400 equivalent. whereas some of the cheapest rifles and handguns in the USA star at around $300, before you even consider gun safes (being a responsible gun owner, of course).

 

[M14 Shooter]

"A well regulated militia..." Implies drill and training?

Ah. Again, you are a victim of your ignorance of US jurisprudence
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia,
As such, "Well regulated" modifies "militia" and thus has no effect on "the right of the people to keep and bear arms"

Thus, I accept you concession re: "Arbuitrary and capricious"

Nothing to do with the text of the 2nd amendment. Where Does the 2nd ammendment iteslf state, "except for criminals"?

You can ignore the jurisprudence , and the explanation contained therein, if you want, but it just means you don't really want an answer to your questiom.

Cam he drive them on public roads without a license?

Irrelevant to the point.
You want to equate driver's licenses to licenses for guns, but to do so, you must allow convicted felons to own guns, w/o restriction.

 

[Dagosa]

Requiring voter ID is not the same thing.


An ID is required for daily living in the modern world and the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people already have some form of ID and for those that don;t already have one they most likely would be free.

And the selling of forearms isn't a protected right and those sales fall under the commerce clause.

You can’t vote without registering first. You can’t register in any state in the union without providing a state acceptable ID at the voters expense. So, you can’t vote without providing an ID FIRST to register. What state do you live in that doesn’t require an ID to register before you can vote ? Dah.
I didn’t know “forearms” we’re for sale. What are you rambling about ?

 

[Dagosa]

Ah. Again, you are a victim of your ignorance of US jurisprudence
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia,
As such, "Well regulated" modifies "militia" and thus has no effect on "the right of the people to keep and bear arms"

Thus, I accept you concession re: "Arbuitrary and capricious"

You can ignore the jurisprudence , and the explanation contained therein, if you want, but it just means you don't really want an answer to your questiom.

Irrelevant to the point.
You want to equate driver's licenses to licenses for guns, but to do so, you must allow convicted felons to own guns, w/o restriction.

Can you even state the second amendment without picking and choosing only the phrases you want. Try it. Post the second amendment HERE.

 

[Blues Man]

"A well regulated militia..." Implies drill and training?

Nothing to do with the text of the 2nd amendment. Where Does the 2nd ammendment iteslf state, "except for criminals"?

Cam he drive them on public roads without a license?

Not everyone who owns a gun is in a militia.

 

[Blues Man]

You can’t vote without registering first. You can’t register in any state in the union without providing a state acceptable ID at the voters expense. So, you can’t vote without providing an ID FIRST to register. What state do you live in that doesn’t require an ID to register before you can vote ? Dah.
I didn’t know “forearms” we’re for sale. What are you rambling about ?

Almost everyone already had an ID and all calls for voter ID say that the ID will be free. And without showing an ID at the place you vote the people at the polling place will not know you are who you say you are

And are you do dense you can't spot a simple typo?