Gun Control vs. The diversity lottery (Rep hypocrisy)

[Crixus]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

So, say you have a daughter who converted to catholic and decided she was going to do what Gawd says and be fruitful and multiply. Thing is, she has like 20 kids already and working on 21, thing is though, she always has to borrow $200.00 bucks from you for food every week. This is immigration as it is now for you. It’s also stressing an allegedly “low skilled” job market. No, not just picking fruit, all phases of any industry has seen working class citizens hurt by the polititical class immigration schemes. That and we just can’t feed them.

 

[BluesLegend]

American citizens are DEAD so that the left can brag about supporting diversity, that's just brilliant. /sarcasm

8 American Citizens are dead because of letting in a crazy. About a dozen more hurt. 58 American Citizens are dead because we failed to control citizens owning machine guns. And another 500 hurt. If you add the number of all the weekly mass shooting by crazies in the US this year, you would have an even larger number.

So, which is the most danger to me, the occasional Muslim madman, or one of my fellow American Citizens exercising his 2nd amendment rights to mow down a few dozen of his fellow citizens.

You LIE and not a small white lie a big fat whopper lie.

 

[Godboy]

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

What makes you say the vast majority are good? They have a terrible culture, which effects all of them in some way. The truth is, much of the muslim world agrees with terrorism.

Jakarta Post (2006): 40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
You are being redirected...

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Zogby Poll: Most Americans Want Strengths and Weaknesses of Darwinism Taught In Schools (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell

BBC (2007): 36% of younger Muslims in the UK believe a Muslim should be killed for converting to another religion (19% of those over 55 agree).
BBC NEWS | UK | British Muslims poll: Key points

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/sharia-adherence-mosque-survey/html

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...-sentence-for-apostasy-21-9-oppose-democracy/

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...dical-views-worry-mps-call-for-more-research/

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31293196

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 24% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified against those who "offend Islam" (60% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 29% of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable (61% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2015): 40% of Palestinians, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh agree that violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes justified.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America says suicide bombings and other violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes or often justified. 81% say it is never justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-app-a/

Arab Observatory of Religions and Freedom (2016) Only 39% in Egypt condemn religious extremism.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ntries-providing-major-source-of-eu-migrants/

University of Munster Study (2016): 20% of Turks living in Germany say that "the threat which the West poses to Islam justifies violence.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

University of Munster Study (2016): 7% of Turks living in Germany agree that "violence is justified" to spread Islam.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

Pew Research (2017): 20% of Muslims in America say violence to further the cause of Islam is justified (8% say "rarely", 12% say "sometimes" or "often")


https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

How many muslim majority countries have you been to? How many muslim people do you know?

What a deflection.

 

[Godboy]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

The tool he used wasnt the "immigration system". Im certain that no one died because he used the "immigration system" on them.

If you are going to make a comparison, then the comparison is the vehicle he used, as opposed to a gun in the Vegas situation. Do you want to ban trucks? Me neither.

Ok, then according to your logic, going after the lottery and the immigration system would compare to what in the gun debate?

The closest comparison would be with gun control, but we have a constitutional right to carry guns. Muslims do not have the same right to enter our country.

 

[Slade3200]

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

What makes you say the vast majority are good? They have a terrible culture, which effects all of them in some way. The truth is, much of the muslim world agrees with terrorism.

Jakarta Post (2006): 40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
You are being redirected...

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Zogby Poll: Most Americans Want Strengths and Weaknesses of Darwinism Taught In Schools (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell

BBC (2007): 36% of younger Muslims in the UK believe a Muslim should be killed for converting to another religion (19% of those over 55 agree).
BBC NEWS | UK | British Muslims poll: Key points

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
Sharia Adherence Mosque Survey: Correlations between Sharia Adherence and Violent Dogma in U.S. Mosques | Kedar | Perspectives on Terrorism

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
18% of Muslims support death sentence for apostasy, 21.9% oppose democracy – Austrian Survey

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
Young Dutch Turks' radical views worry MPs, call for more research - DutchNews.nl

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31293196

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 24% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified against those who "offend Islam" (60% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 29% of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable (61% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2015): 40% of Palestinians, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh agree that violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes justified.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America says suicide bombings and other violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes or often justified. 81% say it is never justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-app-a/

Arab Observatory of Religions and Freedom (2016) Only 39% in Egypt condemn religious extremism.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ntries-providing-major-source-of-eu-migrants/

University of Munster Study (2016): 20% of Turks living in Germany say that "the threat which the West poses to Islam justifies violence.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

University of Munster Study (2016): 7% of Turks living in Germany agree that "violence is justified" to spread Islam.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

Pew Research (2017): 20% of Muslims in America say violence to further the cause of Islam is justified (8% say "rarely", 12% say "sometimes" or "often")


https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

How many muslim majority countries have you been to? How many muslim people do you know?

What a deflection.

My bad, I didn't mean to deflect, you asked a question and I responded with a question. You asked why I thought the vast majority are good. Because i've studied the Religion, I've spent time in Turkey, I have muslim friends include an ex muslim roommate and business partner. I understand the culture, religion and lifestyle that those who i've encountered live by. It is quite beautiful and peaceful and very similar to christianity. I also, don't let the actions of a small section of radicals define a group of over a billion people. So to answer you question again, I think this way from my own personal experience.

Now to you... How many muslims do you know personally, how much time have you spent in muslim countries actually experiencing their culture and learning about it? Or is all the information you have from the news and internet?

 

[Godboy]

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

What makes you say the vast majority are good? They have a terrible culture, which effects all of them in some way. The truth is, much of the muslim world agrees with terrorism.

Jakarta Post (2006): 40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
You are being redirected...

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Zogby Poll: Most Americans Want Strengths and Weaknesses of Darwinism Taught In Schools (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell

BBC (2007): 36% of younger Muslims in the UK believe a Muslim should be killed for converting to another religion (19% of those over 55 agree).
BBC NEWS | UK | British Muslims poll: Key points

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
Sharia Adherence Mosque Survey: Correlations between Sharia Adherence and Violent Dogma in U.S. Mosques | Kedar | Perspectives on Terrorism

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
18% of Muslims support death sentence for apostasy, 21.9% oppose democracy – Austrian Survey

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
Young Dutch Turks' radical views worry MPs, call for more research - DutchNews.nl

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.
Muslims 'oppose cartoons reprisals'

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 24% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified against those who "offend Islam" (60% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 29% of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable (61% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2015): 40% of Palestinians, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh agree that violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes justified.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America says suicide bombings and other violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes or often justified. 81% say it is never justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-app-a/

Arab Observatory of Religions and Freedom (2016) Only 39% in Egypt condemn religious extremism.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ntries-providing-major-source-of-eu-migrants/

University of Munster Study (2016): 20% of Turks living in Germany say that "the threat which the West poses to Islam justifies violence.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

University of Munster Study (2016): 7% of Turks living in Germany agree that "violence is justified" to spread Islam.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

Pew Research (2017): 20% of Muslims in America say violence to further the cause of Islam is justified (8% say "rarely", 12% say "sometimes" or "often")


https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

How many muslim majority countries have you been to? How many muslim people do you know?

What a deflection.

My bad, I didn't mean to deflect, you asked a question and I responded with a question. You asked why I thought the vast majority are good. Because i've studied the Religion, I've spent time in Turkey, I have muslim friends include an ex muslim roommate and business partner. I understand the culture, religion and lifestyle that those who i've encountered live by and I don't like the actions of a small section of radicals define a group of over a billion people. So to answer you question again, I think this way from my own personal experience.

Now to you... How many muslims do you know personally, how much time have you spent in muslim countries actually experiencing their culture and learning about it? Or is all the information you have from the news and internet?

I don't know any on a personal level, but even if i did and they were super cool, that doesn't mean the rest are.

Those polls are terribly disturbing. They show that we are very different people. Not all cultures are equal. Some cultures are just plain awful.

 

[Slade3200]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

The tool he used wasnt the "immigration system". Im certain that no one died because he used the "immigration system" on them.

If you are going to make a comparison, then the comparison is the vehicle he used, as opposed to a gun in the Vegas situation. Do you want to ban trucks? Me neither.

Ok, then according to your logic, going after the lottery and the immigration system would compare to what in the gun debate?

The closest comparison would be with gun control, but we have a constitutional right to carry guns. Muslims do not have the same right to enter our country.

Yes, i've acknowledged the constitutional difference, but that is knit picking my point. I'm speaking to the "cause/effect" of the political approach of legislating against a broad group to effect the actions of a few outliers. If owning guns wasn't a constitutional right would you change your opinion on the effectiveness of gun control measures to reduce violence? I think not. So you are deflecting my point by bringing up the constitutional argument.

 

[Slade3200]

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

What makes you say the vast majority are good? They have a terrible culture, which effects all of them in some way. The truth is, much of the muslim world agrees with terrorism.

Jakarta Post (2006): 40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
You are being redirected...

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Zogby Poll: Most Americans Want Strengths and Weaknesses of Darwinism Taught In Schools (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell

BBC (2007): 36% of younger Muslims in the UK believe a Muslim should be killed for converting to another religion (19% of those over 55 agree).
BBC NEWS | UK | British Muslims poll: Key points

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
Sharia Adherence Mosque Survey: Correlations between Sharia Adherence and Violent Dogma in U.S. Mosques | Kedar | Perspectives on Terrorism

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
18% of Muslims support death sentence for apostasy, 21.9% oppose democracy – Austrian Survey

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
Young Dutch Turks' radical views worry MPs, call for more research - DutchNews.nl

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.
Muslims 'oppose cartoons reprisals'

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 24% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified against those who "offend Islam" (60% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 29% of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable (61% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2015): 40% of Palestinians, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh agree that violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes justified.
Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America says suicide bombings and other violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes or often justified. 81% say it is never justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-app-a/

Arab Observatory of Religions and Freedom (2016) Only 39% in Egypt condemn religious extremism.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ntries-providing-major-source-of-eu-migrants/

University of Munster Study (2016): 20% of Turks living in Germany say that "the threat which the West poses to Islam justifies violence.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

University of Munster Study (2016): 7% of Turks living in Germany agree that "violence is justified" to spread Islam.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

Pew Research (2017): 20% of Muslims in America say violence to further the cause of Islam is justified (8% say "rarely", 12% say "sometimes" or "often")


https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

How many muslim majority countries have you been to? How many muslim people do you know?

What a deflection.

My bad, I didn't mean to deflect, you asked a question and I responded with a question. You asked why I thought the vast majority are good. Because i've studied the Religion, I've spent time in Turkey, I have muslim friends include an ex muslim roommate and business partner. I understand the culture, religion and lifestyle that those who i've encountered live by and I don't like the actions of a small section of radicals define a group of over a billion people. So to answer you question again, I think this way from my own personal experience.

Now to you... How many muslims do you know personally, how much time have you spent in muslim countries actually experiencing their culture and learning about it? Or is all the information you have from the news and internet?

I don't know any on a personal level, but even if i did and they were super cool, that doesn't mean the rest are.

Those polls are terribly disturbing. It shows that we are very different people. Not all cultures are equal. Some are just plain awful.

Side question... Do you believe polls or not because every time they get brought up to reflect Trumps approval rate I hear that the polls are fake.

 

[Slade3200]

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

What makes you say the vast majority are good? They have a terrible culture, which effects all of them in some way. The truth is, much of the muslim world agrees with terrorism.

Jakarta Post (2006): 40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
You are being redirected...

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Zogby Poll: Most Americans Want Strengths and Weaknesses of Darwinism Taught In Schools (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell

BBC (2007): 36% of younger Muslims in the UK believe a Muslim should be killed for converting to another religion (19% of those over 55 agree).
BBC NEWS | UK | British Muslims poll: Key points

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
Sharia Adherence Mosque Survey: Correlations between Sharia Adherence and Violent Dogma in U.S. Mosques | Kedar | Perspectives on Terrorism

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
18% of Muslims support death sentence for apostasy, 21.9% oppose democracy – Austrian Survey

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
Young Dutch Turks' radical views worry MPs, call for more research - DutchNews.nl

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.
Muslims 'oppose cartoons reprisals'

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 24% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified against those who "offend Islam" (60% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 29% of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable (61% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2015): 40% of Palestinians, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh agree that violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes justified.
Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America says suicide bombings and other violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes or often justified. 81% say it is never justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-app-a/

Arab Observatory of Religions and Freedom (2016) Only 39% in Egypt condemn religious extremism.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ntries-providing-major-source-of-eu-migrants/

University of Munster Study (2016): 20% of Turks living in Germany say that "the threat which the West poses to Islam justifies violence.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

University of Munster Study (2016): 7% of Turks living in Germany agree that "violence is justified" to spread Islam.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

Pew Research (2017): 20% of Muslims in America say violence to further the cause of Islam is justified (8% say "rarely", 12% say "sometimes" or "often")


https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

How many muslim majority countries have you been to? How many muslim people do you know?

What a deflection.

My bad, I didn't mean to deflect, you asked a question and I responded with a question. You asked why I thought the vast majority are good. Because i've studied the Religion, I've spent time in Turkey, I have muslim friends include an ex muslim roommate and business partner. I understand the culture, religion and lifestyle that those who i've encountered live by and I don't like the actions of a small section of radicals define a group of over a billion people. So to answer you question again, I think this way from my own personal experience.

Now to you... How many muslims do you know personally, how much time have you spent in muslim countries actually experiencing their culture and learning about it? Or is all the information you have from the news and internet?

I don't know any on a personal level, but even if i did and they were super cool, that doesn't mean the rest are.

Those polls are terribly disturbing. They show that we are very different people. Not all cultures are equal. Some cultures are just plain awful.

To address your post... It makes a big difference if you know them personally or have visited their countries and learned about their culture. Maybe then you would learn the peaceful and kind hearted elements of their religion. See how they live, how they respect others, how they welcome visitors, and how hospitable of a people they are. I've never had a better hotel or dining experience as I did in Turkey. I toured mosques and learned their history and heard explanations about some of their customs that I had otherwise thought were archaic. It does make a difference and I suggest you open your mind a little and try and learn from first hand experience instead of making judgements based on news reports and polls.

 

[Norman]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

Hmm... who is not focusing on the people, ie. the immigrants?

The diversity lottery, more appropriately called death lottery, is how the person got in. Of course, Trump has advocated building a wall to further control the problem.

And indeed, we need to have merits based immigration system.

 

[Slade3200]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

Hmm... who is not focusing on the people, ie. the immigrants?

The diversity lottery, more appropriately called death lottery, is how the person got in. Of course, Trump has advocated building a wall to further control the problem.

And indeed, we need to have merits based immigration system.

Should we have a merits based travel policy as well? I mean, why would we let anybody with a criminal record or extreme beliefs even enter the country?

 

[Norman]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

Hmm... who is not focusing on the people, ie. the immigrants?

The diversity lottery, more appropriately called death lottery, is how the person got in. Of course, Trump has advocated building a wall to further control the problem.

And indeed, we need to have merits based immigration system.

Should we have a merits based travel policy as well? I mean, why would we let anybody with a criminal record or extreme beliefs even enter the country?

Of course, the travelers contribute by spending money here in America already. That's enough of a merit for me.

Someone living on American welfare and committing crimes, weakening the culture, in place of someone who actually moves to work and contribute... that's a different story.

 

[Godboy]

What makes you say the vast majority are good? They have a terrible culture, which effects all of them in some way. The truth is, much of the muslim world agrees with terrorism.

Jakarta Post (2006): 40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
You are being redirected...

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Zogby Poll: Most Americans Want Strengths and Weaknesses of Darwinism Taught In Schools (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell

BBC (2007): 36% of younger Muslims in the UK believe a Muslim should be killed for converting to another religion (19% of those over 55 agree).
BBC NEWS | UK | British Muslims poll: Key points

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
Sharia Adherence Mosque Survey: Correlations between Sharia Adherence and Violent Dogma in U.S. Mosques | Kedar | Perspectives on Terrorism

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
18% of Muslims support death sentence for apostasy, 21.9% oppose democracy – Austrian Survey

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
Young Dutch Turks' radical views worry MPs, call for more research - DutchNews.nl

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.
Muslims 'oppose cartoons reprisals'

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 24% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified against those who "offend Islam" (60% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 29% of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable (61% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2015): 40% of Palestinians, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh agree that violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes justified.
Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America says suicide bombings and other violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes or often justified. 81% say it is never justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-app-a/

Arab Observatory of Religions and Freedom (2016) Only 39% in Egypt condemn religious extremism.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ntries-providing-major-source-of-eu-migrants/

University of Munster Study (2016): 20% of Turks living in Germany say that "the threat which the West poses to Islam justifies violence.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

University of Munster Study (2016): 7% of Turks living in Germany agree that "violence is justified" to spread Islam.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

Pew Research (2017): 20% of Muslims in America say violence to further the cause of Islam is justified (8% say "rarely", 12% say "sometimes" or "often")


https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

How many muslim majority countries have you been to? How many muslim people do you know?

What a deflection.

My bad, I didn't mean to deflect, you asked a question and I responded with a question. You asked why I thought the vast majority are good. Because i've studied the Religion, I've spent time in Turkey, I have muslim friends include an ex muslim roommate and business partner. I understand the culture, religion and lifestyle that those who i've encountered live by and I don't like the actions of a small section of radicals define a group of over a billion people. So to answer you question again, I think this way from my own personal experience.

Now to you... How many muslims do you know personally, how much time have you spent in muslim countries actually experiencing their culture and learning about it? Or is all the information you have from the news and internet?

I don't know any on a personal level, but even if i did and they were super cool, that doesn't mean the rest are.

Those polls are terribly disturbing. It shows that we are very different people. Not all cultures are equal. Some are just plain awful.

Side question... Do you believe polls or not because every time they get brought up to reflect Trumps approval rate I hear that the polls are fake.

Polls can certainly be inaccurate, but even if those polls are doubling the real numbers, those numbers are very alarming.