Gun Control vs. The diversity lottery (Rep hypocrisy)

[EverCurious]

A gun [tool] doesn't really compare to immigration policy [social construct] - or at least I'm not seeing your angle with that comparison Slade...

Republican's are pretty open upon their opinion that "the people" who are committing the terrorism are the problem - it's why many argue to ban Muslim's, it's why most of the rest want extreme vetting of immigrants/refugees. That is blaming "the people" who do these things, and the "method" to stop them from coming in is immigration reform.

A gun on the other hand is a physical object, and it's protected by the 2nd amendment, immigration is not...

I'm just having trouble finding how these things connect up as "the same" in your mind, sorry.

This conversation about a diversity lottery isn’t focusing on the dangerous people specifically. It is effecting a general group of people for the irresponsible and dangerous actions of a very few. Same thing with the gun control argument. The Right wants to protect the rights of gun owning Americans and only focus on the criminals.

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

Okay I can see it, except that banning Muslim's, because of the words of their religion (as many folks argue for,) /is/ focusing on "the person," rather than the wider stance of "anti-immigration" as you're taking it...

It's like... I don't like drug dealers. If I push for harsher punishments for drug dealers, I'm arguing that "the person(s)" guilty be held responsible for a specific crime, rather than arguing for harsher punishments for "all" criminals. Fine lines perhaps, but lines none-the-less.

No one I know is anti-immigration so maybe you've been exposed to some hard right group opinion ...like white nationalists, who are for only white men running the government and don't think we need immigrants at all, maybe? (their opinions aren't accepted by many though) White supremacists tend to think other races should be (re) enslaved or deported so that's a possibility perhaps (though again there's like maybe 100 of those in the country so it'd be funny to see you basing your argument on their opinions.)

Alt Rights, Republicans, and Independents tend to believe that /all/ immigrants should be heavily vetted as a general rule. That's regardless of terrorism. But it is /especially/ "necessary" when terrorists are say they're going to come in with immigrants and refugees. That's "common sense" and not "anti-immigration" as you're painting though.


I mean I guess, if the "common sense" argument on the left is that guns are the problem, rather than the fruit loops themselves. But then again, that's the same argument as "not all Muslims" are terrorists that the left makes yea? People bitch about their /right/ being taken away in order to "punish" criminals who abuse guns, it's just not the same as curtailing entry [a non right] to foreigners for whatever reason.

I get where you're coming from, but the two items are on totally different plains because of the constitutional right of gun ownership.

 

[EverCurious]

hmmm allow me to clarify myself into a salient point:

American's as a whole believe that they have a right, as humans, to defend themselves - that encompasses gun ownership and vetting, or even banning, "hostile" groups.

However, there is no right, as humans, to come into our nation.

Two different plains of ideology that intersect for sure, but are not really comparable in the context you're framing it in.

 

[Slade3200]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

it's a sensible argument, but you did leave out the part about the lottery not being a constitutional right, that needs to be added into the mix even if you disagree with it...and yes, just like the left did wth the shooting in vegas trump used this to play politics with, keep in mind that had the left not done so bump stocks would still be legal, so all else being equal then perhaps this tragedy will have the same outcome as the politicizing of vegas had, the lottery visa will end, again that assumes we view both incidents in the same manner, if we don't then we hardly compare one to the other

Fair point... I guess I was speaking more to the politics and the logic behind the effectiveness of each proposed solution. You are right though the constitutionality does play a big part in the gun debate.

 

[Missourian]

I agree with you. Just like it is difficult in a time of national tragedy to remember that there are a hundred million law abiding gun owners...it's hard to remember there are millions of law abiding Muslims.

Moral of the story...liberals, when you think "just because a person who did evil deeds is a Muslim, that doesn't make all Muslims bad"...remember to apply that same logic to guns and gun owners.

One step beyond...Liberals used Dylan Roof's photo with a Confederate Flag the same way...and that guy in Charlottesville.

Using the acts of a few to paint the multitude is never a good idea....unfortunately, it works very well.

 

[2aguy]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

No....the diversity lottery had some of the weakest vetting...they just needed a sketchy high school diploma...and little else......that is the problem...our vetting system.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Allowing foreigners into our country via some damn diversity lottery system is retarded. Lets bring in the best and brightest not a bunch of losers who mow down our citizens with a truck. As for gun control, the constitution's 2nd Amendment suck it.

I didn’t ask what your opinion on the lottery was, I was speaking to the double standards and how the Right has been politicizing it. Can you agree with that observation?

there is no double standard

you are comparing apples and oranges

if you want to compare apples to apples

the call for banning bumpfires

would be similar to calling for a ban on rental trucks

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A gun [tool] doesn't really compare to immigration policy [social construct] - or at least I'm not seeing your angle with that comparison Slade...

Republican's are pretty open upon their opinion that "the people" who are committing the terrorism are the problem - it's why many argue to ban Muslim's, it's why most of the rest want extreme vetting of immigrants/refugees. That is blaming "the people" who do these things, and the "method" to stop them from coming in is immigration reform.

A gun on the other hand is a physical object, and it's protected by the 2nd amendment, immigration is not...

I'm just having trouble finding how these things connect up as "the same" in your mind, sorry.

This conversation about a diversity lottery isn’t focusing on the dangerous people specifically. It is effecting a general group of people for the irresponsible and dangerous actions of a very few. Same thing with the gun control argument. The Right wants to protect the rights of gun owning Americans and only focus on the criminals.

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

Our federal government has the responsibility to protect American Constitutional rights--they have no obligation to protect immigration.

Coming to this country is a privilege, owning and using a firearm for protection is a right. Immigration is a system--gun ownership is not a system.

It's hardly comparable yet alone hypocrisy. If we have a policy that costs one American life, it's worth rescinding such policy.

 

[Godboy]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

The tool he used wasnt the "immigration system". Im certain that no one died because he used the "immigration system" on them.

If you are going to make a comparison, then the comparison is the vehicle he used, as opposed to a gun in the Vegas situation. Do you want to ban trucks? Me neither.

 

[Godboy]

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

What makes you say the vast majority are good? They have a terrible culture, which effects all of them in some way. The truth is, much of the muslim world agrees with terrorism.

Jakarta Post (2006): 40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
You are being redirected...

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Zogby Poll: Most Americans Want Strengths and Weaknesses of Darwinism Taught In Schools (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

BBC (2007): 36% of younger Muslims in the UK believe a Muslim should be killed for converting to another religion (19% of those over 55 agree).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6309983.stm

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/sharia-adherence-mosque-survey/html

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...-sentence-for-apostasy-21-9-oppose-democracy/

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...dical-views-worry-mps-call-for-more-research/

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31293196

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 24% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified against those who "offend Islam" (60% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 29% of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable (61% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2015): 40% of Palestinians, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh agree that violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes justified.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America says suicide bombings and other violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes or often justified. 81% say it is never justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-app-a/

Arab Observatory of Religions and Freedom (2016) Only 39% in Egypt condemn religious extremism.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ntries-providing-major-source-of-eu-migrants/

University of Munster Study (2016): 20% of Turks living in Germany say that "the threat which the West poses to Islam justifies violence.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

University of Munster Study (2016): 7% of Turks living in Germany agree that "violence is justified" to spread Islam.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

Pew Research (2017): 20% of Muslims in America say violence to further the cause of Islam is justified (8% say "rarely", 12% say "sometimes" or "often")


https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

 

[Old Rocks]

American citizens are DEAD so that the left can brag about supporting diversity, that's just brilliant. /sarcasm

8 American Citizens are dead because of letting in a crazy. About a dozen more hurt. 58 American Citizens are dead because we failed to control citizens owning machine guns. And another 500 hurt. If you add the number of all the weekly mass shooting by crazies in the US this year, you would have an even larger number.

So, which is the most danger to me, the occasional Muslim madman, or one of my fellow American Citizens exercising his 2nd amendment rights to mow down a few dozen of his fellow citizens.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

American citizens are DEAD so that the left can brag about supporting diversity, that's just brilliant. /sarcasm

8 American Citizens are dead because of letting in a crazy. About a dozen more hurt. 58 American Citizens are dead because we failed to control citizens owning machine guns. And another 500 hurt. If you add the number of all the weekly mass shooting by crazies in the US this year, you would have an even larger number.

So, which is the most danger to me, the occasional Muslim madman, or one of my fellow American Citizens exercising his 2nd amendment rights to mow down a few dozen of his fellow citizens.

And what machine guns were those???

 

[buckeye45_73]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

well youre not comparing tge same things. for example a better comparison is with guns and cars, are you lookong for car control now?

the lottery is stupid, because its random, rather than getting the best people. one of my coworkers, got deported back to india, even though he was a great guy and a major contributor to our IT team. we hired him back through holland

 

[Slade3200]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

The tool he used wasnt the "immigration system". Im certain that no one died because he used the "immigration system" on them.

If you are going to make a comparison, then the comparison is the vehicle he used, as opposed to a gun in the Vegas situation. Do you want to ban trucks? Me neither.

Ok, then according to your logic, going after the lottery and the immigration system would compare to what in the gun debate?

 

[Slade3200]

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

What makes you say the vast majority are good? They have a terrible culture, which effects all of them in some way. The truth is, much of the muslim world agrees with terrorism.

Jakarta Post (2006): 40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
You are being redirected...

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Zogby Poll: Most Americans Want Strengths and Weaknesses of Darwinism Taught In Schools (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
More Survey Research from a British Islamist Hell

BBC (2007): 36% of younger Muslims in the UK believe a Muslim should be killed for converting to another religion (19% of those over 55 agree).
BBC NEWS | UK | British Muslims poll: Key points

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/sharia-adherence-mosque-survey/html

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...-sentence-for-apostasy-21-9-oppose-democracy/

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...dical-views-worry-mps-call-for-more-research/

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31293196

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 24% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified against those who "offend Islam" (60% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 29% of Muslim-Americans agree that violence against those who insult Muhammad or the Quran is acceptable (61% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....nline-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2015): 40% of Palestinians, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh agree that violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes justified.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America says suicide bombings and other violence against civilians in defense of Islam is sometimes or often justified. 81% say it is never justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-app-a/

Arab Observatory of Religions and Freedom (2016) Only 39% in Egypt condemn religious extremism.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ntries-providing-major-source-of-eu-migrants/

University of Munster Study (2016): 20% of Turks living in Germany say that "the threat which the West poses to Islam justifies violence.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

University of Munster Study (2016): 7% of Turks living in Germany agree that "violence is justified" to spread Islam.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8321/germany-turks-integration

Pew Research (2017): 20% of Muslims in America say violence to further the cause of Islam is justified (8% say "rarely", 12% say "sometimes" or "often")


https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

How many muslim majority countries have you been to? How many muslim people do you know?

 

[ScienceRocks]

I think we should vet all people that come here and make sure no extremist be it islamic, christian, etc. But, I think everyone should be allowed to live here in America no matter the color of their skin.

 

[Slade3200]

I often hear the argument from those on the Right, regarding gun control, that people kill people not guns so don’t attack the tool. This most recent debate about the diversity lottery seems to hold a lot of hypocrisy. In the aftermath of a terror attack now the Right is politicizing their support for strict immigration policy and trying to shut down the diversity lottery. Well I’m not a big supporter of the diversity lottery one way or another I do sense a double standard going on. If the Right is going to insist that we focus on the people and not the tool for the gun debate then we should have the same standards with the terrorism/immigration debate and not focus on the tool which would be the immigration system but rather the people that we decide to let in. Even with a diversity lottery there is vetting. Thoughts?

well youre not comparing tge same things. for example a better comparison is with guns and cars, are you lookong for car control now?

the lottery is stupid, because its random, rather than getting the best people. one of my coworkers, got deported back to india, even though he was a great guy and a major contributor to our IT team. we hired him back through holland

I'm comparing exactly what I intended to compare. Vegas shooting, the left wants to ban bump stocks. The right critiques for politicizing. NYC Terror attack, the right wants to get rid of an immigration program. The Left critiques for politicizing.

Both sides critique the other for trying to stop isolated incidents by legislating in a way that effects a majority of well meaning people instead of targeting the actual criminals. Get it?

 

[Slade3200]

A gun [tool] doesn't really compare to immigration policy [social construct] - or at least I'm not seeing your angle with that comparison Slade...

Republican's are pretty open upon their opinion that "the people" who are committing the terrorism are the problem - it's why many argue to ban Muslim's, it's why most of the rest want extreme vetting of immigrants/refugees. That is blaming "the people" who do these things, and the "method" to stop them from coming in is immigration reform.

A gun on the other hand is a physical object, and it's protected by the 2nd amendment, immigration is not...

I'm just having trouble finding how these things connect up as "the same" in your mind, sorry.

This conversation about a diversity lottery isn’t focusing on the dangerous people specifically. It is effecting a general group of people for the irresponsible and dangerous actions of a very few. Same thing with the gun control argument. The Right wants to protect the rights of gun owning Americans and only focus on the criminals.

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

Our federal government has the responsibility to protect American Constitutional rights--they have no obligation to protect immigration.

Coming to this country is a privilege, owning and using a firearm for protection is a right. Immigration is a system--gun ownership is not a system.

It's hardly comparable yet alone hypocrisy. If we have a policy that costs one American life, it's worth rescinding such policy.

I don't think you mean that Ray. Im sure plenty of lost lives can be attributed to political policies in one way or another. We've also had many lives saved because of policies.

 

[EverCurious]

I don't think the majority of rights want to get rid of an immigration system... they just want the vetting on it fixed, because seriously, having a 12th grade education and 2 years job experience isn't vetting anything.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A gun [tool] doesn't really compare to immigration policy [social construct] - or at least I'm not seeing your angle with that comparison Slade...

Republican's are pretty open upon their opinion that "the people" who are committing the terrorism are the problem - it's why many argue to ban Muslim's, it's why most of the rest want extreme vetting of immigrants/refugees. That is blaming "the people" who do these things, and the "method" to stop them from coming in is immigration reform.

A gun on the other hand is a physical object, and it's protected by the 2nd amendment, immigration is not...

I'm just having trouble finding how these things connect up as "the same" in your mind, sorry.

This conversation about a diversity lottery isn’t focusing on the dangerous people specifically. It is effecting a general group of people for the irresponsible and dangerous actions of a very few. Same thing with the gun control argument. The Right wants to protect the rights of gun owning Americans and only focus on the criminals.

Banning Muslims, or instituting travel bans, or getting rid of a diversity lottery isn’t targeting terrorist it’s targeting immigrants, the vast majority of which are good hearted people. See it now?

Our federal government has the responsibility to protect American Constitutional rights--they have no obligation to protect immigration.

Coming to this country is a privilege, owning and using a firearm for protection is a right. Immigration is a system--gun ownership is not a system.

It's hardly comparable yet alone hypocrisy. If we have a policy that costs one American life, it's worth rescinding such policy.

I don't think you mean that Ray. Im sure plenty of lost lives can be attributed to political policies in one way or another. We've also had many lives saved because of policies.

American lives? How?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm comparing exactly what I intended to compare. Vegas shooting, the left wants to ban bump stocks. The right critiques for politicizing. NYC Terror attack, the right wants to get rid of an immigration program.

No, we always wanted to get rid of these immigration programs. We didn't need a terrorist attack to make up our minds. It's why we voted for Trump; he was the only one willing to address this problem. Now he's addressing it. We got what we voted for.