Zone1 If we want to give the gypsies a "single" race can we describe them broadly as westerneurasian or caucasoid?

Mortimer

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I mean those are terms in anthropology and population genetic studies, not really a laymen term like white or black. But if we want to define a gypsy by race, could we say that?











User

You
If we want to give the gypsies a "single" race can we describe them broadly as westerneurasian or caucasoid? I mean those are terms in anthropology and population genetic studies, not really a laymen term like white or black. But if we want to define a gypsy by race, could we say that?


ChatGPT
While "Caucasoid" and "West Eurasian" are indeed terms used in anthropology and population genetics to describe certain genetic and phenotypic characteristics of populations, it's important to recognize that attempting to categorize the diverse groups of people commonly referred to as "gypsies" solely based on race can be problematic and reductive.
The term "gypsy" encompasses various ethnic groups such as Romani, Sinti, and others, who have distinct cultural traditions, histories, and genetic ancestries. These groups have migrated across different regions over centuries and have intermixed with local populations, leading to considerable genetic and cultural diversity within and among them.
Using terms like "Caucasoid" or "West Eurasian" to categorize all groups of people commonly referred to as "gypsies" oversimplifies their complexity and diversity. Additionally, it can perpetuate stereotypes and contribute to discrimination and marginalization.
It's essential to approach the categorization of human populations with sensitivity and acknowledge the limitations and complexities involved. Instead of reducing people to broad racial categories, it's more accurate and respectful to recognize the diversity and individuality within and among communities.


User

You
But "Gypsies" have a common origin in a single tribe in india, they have a common indo-aryan language so they are indeed a ethnic group right for example they are not SSA, east asian or native american so they could be broadly described as westeurasian if we are very lenient and include india in westeurasia which often it is not right?


ChatGPT
Yes, it's true that the Romani people, often referred to as "Gypsies," have a common origin in a single tribe in India and share certain linguistic and cultural characteristics. They speak an Indo-Aryan language and have a shared history of migration from the Indian subcontinent to various parts of the world.
In terms of broad anthropological and genetic categorizations, it's reasonable to place the Romani people within the West Eurasian or Caucasoid category, considering their South Asian origins and subsequent migrations into Europe and other parts of the world. This categorization is based on population genetics and historical migrations rather than modern layman terms like "white" or "black."
However, it's important to emphasize that the Romani people are a diverse and heterogeneous group with distinct subgroups, each with its own unique history, cultural practices, and genetic makeup. Additionally, the Romani experience discrimination and marginalization in many parts of the world, and labeling them solely based on race or ethnicity can perpetuate stereotypes and contribute to their social exclusion.
Therefore, while broad anthropological categorizations like "West Eurasian" or "Caucasoid" may provide some insight into the origins of the Romani people, it's crucial to approach the topic with sensitivity and recognize the complexity and diversity within the community.


User

You
I agree and Im content with your answers thank you very much


ChatGPT
You're welcome! I'm glad I could help. If you have any more questions or if there's anything else I can assist you with, feel free to ask.
 
The Romani originally migrated from the modern Indian state of Rajasthan, migrating to the Punjab region of the Indian subcontinent around 250 BC. A 2012 study by Indian geneticists confirmed their Indian ancestry with Y-chromosomal haplogroup H1a1a-M82 that is common in this ethnic group.

image


Abstract​

Linguistic and genetic studies on Roma populations inhabited in Europe have unequivocally traced these populations to the Indian subcontinent. However, the exact parental population group and time of the out-of-India dispersal have remained disputed. In the absence of archaeological records and with only scanty historical documentation of the Roma, comparative linguistic studies were the first to identify their Indian origin. Recently, molecular studies on the basis of disease-causing mutations and haploid DNA markers (i.e. mtDNA and Y-chromosome) supported the linguistic view. The presence of Indian-specific Y-chromosome haplogroup H1a1a-M82 and mtDNA haplogroups M5a1, M18 and M35b among Roma has corroborated that their South Asian origins and later admixture with Near Eastern and European populations. However, previous studies have left unanswered questions about the exact parental population groups in South Asia. Here we present a detailed phylogeographical study of Y-chromosomal haplogroup H1a1a-M82 in a data set of more than 10,000 global samples to discern a more precise ancestral source of European Romani populations. The phylogeographical patterns and diversity estimates indicate an early origin of this haplogroup in the Indian subcontinent and its further expansion to other regions. Tellingly, the short tandem repeat (STR) based network of H1a1a-M82 lineages displayed the closest connection of Romani haplotypes with the traditional scheduled caste and scheduled tribe population groups of northwestern India.

 
The Romani originally migrated from the modern Indian state of Rajasthan, migrating to the Punjab region of the Indian subcontinent around 250 BC. A 2012 study by Indian geneticists confirmed their Indian ancestry with Y-chromosomal haplogroup H1a1a-M82 that is common in this ethnic group.

image


Abstract​

Linguistic and genetic studies on Roma populations inhabited in Europe have unequivocally traced these populations to the Indian subcontinent. However, the exact parental population group and time of the out-of-India dispersal have remained disputed. In the absence of archaeological records and with only scanty historical documentation of the Roma, comparative linguistic studies were the first to identify their Indian origin. Recently, molecular studies on the basis of disease-causing mutations and haploid DNA markers (i.e. mtDNA and Y-chromosome) supported the linguistic view. The presence of Indian-specific Y-chromosome haplogroup H1a1a-M82 and mtDNA haplogroups M5a1, M18 and M35b among Roma has corroborated that their South Asian origins and later admixture with Near Eastern and European populations. However, previous studies have left unanswered questions about the exact parental population groups in South Asia. Here we present a detailed phylogeographical study of Y-chromosomal haplogroup H1a1a-M82 in a data set of more than 10,000 global samples to discern a more precise ancestral source of European Romani populations. The phylogeographical patterns and diversity estimates indicate an early origin of this haplogroup in the Indian subcontinent and its further expansion to other regions. Tellingly, the short tandem repeat (STR) based network of H1a1a-M82 lineages displayed the closest connection of Romani haplotypes with the traditional scheduled caste and scheduled tribe population groups of northwestern India.

That sounds as if they are "just" indian, ydna is only 1% of your dna, they are traced back to india but that was over 1.500 years ago they are a diaspora population and individuals or groups who strongly identify as romani are sometimes even 80% european like i am for example. It would be wrong to call me indian or just indian, that is why i said westeurasian because it covers all of the DNA they have from eurasia across all places, they migrated to central asia and middle east and have central asian and middle eastern DNA, they migrated to anatolia and greece, 1.500 years ago they have lot of turkish and greek dna, and later migrated also to britain for example like 500 years ago, it would be wrong to say they are "indians" you wont say a happa is chinese but eurasian right? you wont say a mexican is a native american, he is a mestizo. Right?

My results Im 81% European. And only 10% indian and 10% central asian (pasthun seems a stand in for my middle eastern/central asian dna)
 
I am not sure why it is, but the term, "race" has grown exponentially in recent decades. Gypsies are Caucasian, or "white."

There are only a few races, Caucasian, Negroid, Asian, Australoid, and a few others.

The most prominent misuse of the term "race" (and I don't know what it is in German) was Hitler's use of the term to describe Jews, which was anthropologically absurd.

And what's the point of claiming that different ethnicities are in fact different RACES? Who benefits from this absurdity? Cui bono?
 
I think the Anglosphere considers the Gypsies "as white" i noticed that, but not only the light english gypsies also the dark hungarian gypsies, they would say like they are "dark and black eyed" but as if they are still white

example this in usa or australia. do you have also the feeling he is considered "white"?

 

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