Grid scale storage, the answer to an all renewable grid

[Old Rocks]

westwall After the initial investment of providing the reservoirs, they are virtually free of charge. The arability of the land above underground storage is a non-issue. In the case I cited on the Columbia--the land is just not productive. The same cases can be made for any lake/river that runs through a canyon as most desert lakes do. Examples, Lake Powell in Utah, Lake Mead in NV, Lake Shasta in CA, the Snake River gorge in ID/OR, the Columbia River gorge in WA/OR. The Columbia River uses this same technology with Dams providing the drop at numerous points along its run, the largest being Grand Coulee Dam which backs up Lake Roosevelt. That dam alone provides peak energy to 11 western states while also providing irrigation for the entire southeastern portion of WA which would not be farmable. Grand Coulee refers to the natural reservoir that they pump water into for that irrigation. There are numerous ways to use the same flowing water to produce positive results without diminishing the resource.

"In the case I cited on the Columbia--the land is just not productive."

Bullshit!

There is a lot of productive land available, it is the lack of stored irrigation water to make it work is the problem.

LOL If you were not such a political dumb ass, who sees everything through the lenses of ignorant 'Conservative' politics, you would realize you just suggested the answer to two problems. Wind and solar are intermittent, and often produce power when not needed. The plateaus are quite a vertical way above the reservoirs in many areas. Create some big lakes, and, when the pumped hydro ponds are full, pump to the lakes. This could be done in the spring runoff when there is a lot of power, both hydro and wind.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ain't it funny how they don't seem to care about brown people.

Ain't it funny how you are such a fucking hypocrite. Rip babies from their mothers breasts at the border. All fun, shits and giggles. But if anyone here buys cobalt produced with child labor for batteries, you are right there screaming your head off. In case you don't know it, a lot of the batteries are made from cobalt from Australia. And, yes, we should be avoiding using cobalt produced in that manner. But the truth is, were that cobalt not being used in batteries, you would not give a single shit about the children.

 

[westwall]

Ain't it funny how they don't seem to care about brown people.

Ain't it funny how you are such a fucking hypocrite. Rip babies from their mothers breasts at the border. All fun, shits and giggles. But if anyone here buys cobalt produced with child labor for batteries, you are right there screaming your head off. In case you don't know it, a lot of the batteries are made from cobalt from Australia. And, yes, we should be avoiding using cobalt produced in that manner. But the truth is, were that cobalt not being used in batteries, you would not give a single shit about the children.

You assholes push solar and battery production into the third world where you can poison them at will.

You personally used to work for EVRAZ, one of the most polluting companies on the planet so take your sanctimonious bullshit and shove it up your ass.

 

[Sunsettommy]

westwall After the initial investment of providing the reservoirs, they are virtually free of charge. The arability of the land above underground storage is a non-issue. In the case I cited on the Columbia--the land is just not productive. The same cases can be made for any lake/river that runs through a canyon as most desert lakes do. Examples, Lake Powell in Utah, Lake Mead in NV, Lake Shasta in CA, the Snake River gorge in ID/OR, the Columbia River gorge in WA/OR. The Columbia River uses this same technology with Dams providing the drop at numerous points along its run, the largest being Grand Coulee Dam which backs up Lake Roosevelt. That dam alone provides peak energy to 11 western states while also providing irrigation for the entire southeastern portion of WA which would not be farmable. Grand Coulee refers to the natural reservoir that they pump water into for that irrigation. There are numerous ways to use the same flowing water to produce positive results without diminishing the resource.

"In the case I cited on the Columbia--the land is just not productive."

Bullshit!

There is a lot of productive land available, it is the lack of stored irrigation water to make it work is the problem.

LOL If you were not such a political dumb ass, who sees everything through the lenses of ignorant 'Conservative' politics, you would realize you just suggested the answer to two problems. Wind and solar are intermittent, and often produce power when not needed. The plateaus are quite a vertical way above the reservoirs in many areas. Create some big lakes, and, when the pumped hydro ponds are full, pump to the lakes. This could be done in the spring runoff when there is a lot of power, both hydro and wind.

I happen to live right there in the region under discussion, that is why I Know what he said was wrong. The land isn't being farmed BECAUSE there isn't sufficient available water for agriculture.

Again you don't seem aware that you can't just pump from the main water source in the region, the Columbia river which is under state water use rules making that nearly impossible which INCLUDES spring run off.

It is a very dry region, a near full desert, Precipitation around 6-8" a year nearly zero in the three growing summer months of June-August.

I am a Independent, never a Republican, besides what I said to C. American has nothing to do with Conservative politics anyway.

 

[Concerned American]

Palo Verde has only been on line for 33 years. It took 12 years and $6B to build not to mention operation costs. It works very well for the desert area which it serves. Other areas have other options that work for them. Where water is flowing and plentiful, utilizing the natural power that is created by gravity to produce electricity is a logical and responsible alternative.

 

[surada]

I prefer "Small Nuclear Reactors" (SMRs) to modernize and secure our grid. By having decentralized small nuclear reactors, you have clean power and the ability to firewall each SMR against hackers.

Small nuclear power reactors - World Nuclear Association

There is revival of interest in small and simpler units for generating electricity from nuclear power, and for process heat. This interest in small nuclear power reactors is driven both by a desire to reduce capital costs and to provide power away from large grid systems.

www.world-nuclear.org

And now this.. They have been working on it since 1982.

Aramco sees major hydrogen market forming amid historic pressure test for Big Oil

Saudi state oil producer Aramco sees an "inflection point" in the market for hydrogen and expects exports to ramp up after 2030.

www.cnbc.com

 

[ding]

Natural gas and coal are the grid storage for renewables.

Am I right, Old Rocks ?

 

[skookerasbil]

Energy cost realities 100% train wreck the unicorn chasing ideals of the climate k00ks.............thus after 20 years, wind and solar STILL combine to provide less than 10% of the electricity for the grid. ( dont take my word for it......check the Biden admin EIA summary report from February 2021 )

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/how-energy-transition-models-go-wrong

This kind of information doesnt even exist in minds of the climate obsessed. But it does for the folks who make energy policy in the western world.

 

[Grumblenuts]

"Grid Scale" via heat pump:

 

[whoisit]

I prefer "Small Nuclear Reactors" (SMRs) to modernize and secure our grid. By having decentralized small nuclear reactors, you have clean power and the ability to firewall each SMR against hackers.

Small nuclear power reactors - World Nuclear Association

There is revival of interest in small and simpler units for generating electricity from nuclear power, and for process heat. This interest in small nuclear power reactors is driven both by a desire to reduce capital costs and to provide power away from large grid systems.

www.world-nuclear.org

What was it Einstien said about the Monarch butterfly? And how our last war will be fought with sticks and stones.
We never learn from history because they don't teach it,only propaganda to keep us at each other while they take us all down.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Oh noes, another clean, renewable energy solution! Quick, time to promote our always unaffordable, unsafe, radiation leaking nukes again! Darn it, if only we could find one insurance company willing to back us instead of having to lobby congress all the time for our literally "Free Shit" man!

 

[Captain Caveman]

The only reason why so much energy is needed and stored is because houses are poorly insulated.

Rather than having a grid, it needs sub divided because when the power goes off, everything grinds to a halt. Living in an area in the UK, a flood knocked the sub station out. Our estate was without electric for 2 weeks. All wasn't lost because we also had a gas cooker and gas camping equipment.

When you start putting your eggs in to one basket and blindly going with these renewable ideas, when things go tit's up, everything grinds to a halt. Imagine living in an area for two weeks without electric with an EV? Granted it doesn't happen often, but you can't predict the future.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The only reason why so much energy is needed and stored is because houses are poorly insulated.

Houses, mine included, could always be better insulated. However, I've never used electricity to heat our house. Mainly using wood pellets and firewood this winter, both are "renewable" or carbon neutral though certainly not ideal in terms of smoke output. Collecting heat through evacuated tube solar collectors and storing it for later heat exchange is ideal. Having a range of alternatives ready is, of course, smart. If only money were unlimited.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Houses, mine included, could always be better insulated. However, I've never used electricity to heat our house. Mainly using wood pellets and firewood this winter, both are "renewable" or carbon neutral though certainly not ideal in terms of smoke output. Collecting heat through evacuated tube solar collectors and storing it for later heat exchange is ideal. Having a range of alternatives ready is, of course, smart. If only money were unlimited.

That's the thing with renewables, you need unlimited money.

 

[Grumblenuts]

That's the ting with renewables, you need unlimited money.

Huh? Crazy talk.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Huh? Crazy talk.

That's the thing with renewables, you need unlimited money.

 

[Grumblenuts]

That's the thing with renewables, you need unlimited money.

Huh? Crazy talk.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Huh? Crazy talk.

You just said if money was unlimited. Correct, all this renewable idea, you need unlimited money. Are you having a retard moment?

 

[Grumblenuts]

You just said if money was unlimited. Correct, all this renewable idea, you need unlimited money. Are you having a retard moment?

If money were unlimited.. we could all afford unlimited insulation and heating alternatives (renewable or otherwise). Should have gone w/o saying.

 

[Captain Caveman]

If money were unlimited.. we could all afford unlimited insulation and heating alternatives (renewable or otherwise). Should have gone w/o saying.

No, you don't need unlimited insulation, no such thing exists. To afford solar power, ground or air heat source pumps, a windmill, a powerwall, an EV etc.. you need unlimited money, And when it wears out, you need more unlimited money.

When a house is built, the delevloper doesn't need to be as greedy and simply build a passive house. Cheap as chips to heat.