Grand Solar Minimum.... And Cooling....

[Crick]

Yet, when it is convenient to you, you care about the ball having been carried up the hill and the iron having been smelted from iron oxide.

You seem to have reversed your expressed viewpoint.

 

[SSDD]

Yet, when it is convenient to you, you care about the ball having been carried up the hill and the iron having been smelted from iron oxide.

You seem to have reversed your expressed viewpoint.

Sorry skidmark...my position hasn't changed whatsoever...when did I ever suggest that rust was not a spontaneous process? And if you carry a rock up a hill, then you provided work to put it there...

 

[Crick]

The example you just provided gave a rock rolling down a hill as an example of spontaneous release of energy.

and this

Chemical light stick.

Man made...work went into production...not spontaneous....same old thing..

You pick and choose what you find convenient.

 

[SSDD]

The example you just provided gave a rock rolling down a hill as an example of spontaneous release of energy.

and this

Chemical light stick.

Man made...work went into production...not spontaneous....same old thing..

You pick and choose what you find convenient.

Let me guess...you think all rocks must be carried up a hill in order for them to find themselves there. You really are that stupid...aren't you?

As to the light stick...again, refer to the definition of spontaneous process...
"A spontaneous process is one that will occur without any energy input from the surroundings."

Do you really think that a light stick requires no energy input from its surroundings in order to light up? In order to exist? Light sticks, like light bulbs etc are the product of work and nothing about them is spontaneous..

I do get a laugh out of you making such stupid statements after you have claimed to be an engineer....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The example you just provided gave a rock rolling down a hill as an example of spontaneous release of energy.

and this

Chemical light stick.

Man made...work went into production...not spontaneous....same old thing..

You pick and choose what you find convenient.

Let me guess...you think all rocks must be carried up a hill in order for them to find themselves there. You really are that stupid...aren't you?

As to the light stick...again, refer to the definition of spontaneous process...
"A spontaneous process is one that will occur without any energy input from the surroundings."

Do you really think that a light stick requires no energy input from its surroundings in order to light up? In order to exist? Light sticks, like light bulbs etc are the product of work and nothing about them is spontaneous..

I do get a laugh out of you making such stupid statements after you have claimed to be an engineer....

"A spontaneous process is one that will occur without any energy input from the surroundings."

And that's why the atmosphere can emit toward the warmer ground...…...not spontaneous.
And that's why the Sun's surface can emit toward the warmer corona...…...not spontaneous.
And that's why the Earth can emit toward the warmer thermosphere...…...not spontaneous.
And that's why my walls can emit toward my warmer body...…...not spontaneous.

That's a relief.
We can dispense with the epicycles.

 

[SSDD]

Do you work at being that stupid, or does it just come natural?

 

[Crick]

We might certainly ask you the same question - and with real reason

 

[Wuwei]

I'm truly sorry you find physics so tedious. But let's analyze your idea of spontaneity in physics.

I find physics endlessly interesting..you, on the other hand, are quite tedious.

So you say that no process in physics is spontaneous if work was done prior to an energy release after all work is ended. That almost sounds like a new law in thermodynamics. That certainly gives new meaning to your oft quoted Clausius statement of the second law:

I don't say it...physics says it. Here...one last attempt to provide you with a definition easy enough for you to understand.

What Is a Spontaneous Process?

A spontaneous process is one that will occur without any energy input from the surroundings. It is a process that will occur on its own. For example, a ball will roll down an incline, water will flow downhill, ice will melt into water, radioisotopes will decay, and iron will rust. No intervention is required because these processes are thermodynamically favorable. In other words, the initial energy is higher than the final energy.

is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow.

(Note that the bold faced phrase is past tense.)​

Also you had said man-made devices cannot create a spontaneous process because of the manufacturing work. So you have given us some new concepts of applications.

New to you perhaps...but not to science....or people who actually understand what the term spontaneous means...by the way...work being done..or work having been done is irrelevant...the speed at which a process occurs has nothing to do with whether or not it is spontaneous... Here...from the same link:

Note how quickly a process occurs has no bearing on whether or not it is spontaneous. It may take a long time for rust to become obvious, yet when iron is exposed to air the process will occur. A radioactive isotope may decay instantly or after thousands or millions or even billions of years.

As Tod indicated, you said light from the sun involves work (and is thereby not spontaneous.) So all earthly processes that rely on the sun are never spontaneous. CO2 can thereby emit back-radiation.[;/quote]

You know who is stupid? People who try to find a way around the second law of thermodynamics...

A warm man-made spectrometer can receive colder radiation.

So provide a measurement of a discrete wavelength of radiation from an object that is cooler than the instrument.

Two objects heated by scientists in a lab can always exchange radiation no matter their temperature difference.

Your reply is way beyond your ability to think in physics terms. You lack intuitive understanding of physics. You totally missed the self-contradiction I was referring to and launched into a doubling down on you idiocy in understanding the concept of spontaneous as it is defined and used in physics.

 

[Wuwei]

Let me guess...you think all rocks must be carried up a hill in order for them to find themselves there. You really are that stupid...aren't you?

Imagine two hills. Hill #1 has a rock on it. On hill #2 a person just carried a rock to the top of the hill, placed it there and then left.

The ground being unstable both rocks rolled down the hill.... You are saying #1 was spontaneous, # 2 was not spontaneous.
That is a pretty stupid way of thinking about gravitational potential energy turning into kinetic energy. Really stupid.

As to the light stick...again, refer to the definition of spontaneous process...
"A spontaneous process is one that will occur without any energy input from the surroundings."

Do you really think that a light stick requires no energy input from its surroundings in order to light up? In order to exist? Light sticks, like light bulbs etc are the product of work and nothing about them is spontaneous.

That goes back to your definition that that no process in physics is spontaneous if work was done prior to an energy release after all work is ended. And anything man-made cannot result in a spontaneous action.

Here are counterexamples and the self-contradictory conclusions of your hypotheses.
A man-made toaster can receive energy from a man-made cold slice of bread. That would of course be two-way energy exchange which everyone believes but you.

Similarly a person can radiate body warmth toward the sun because both are doing work.

According to you any experiment assembled in a lab is never spontaneous because it would be man-made. This would include any experiment involving temperature differences where radiation must be exchanged because of the work having been done.

Remember I am not promoting any science here. You don't need to argue the science again. I am simply saying you have been continually contradicting yourself. That is a serious logical fallacy.

.

 

[SSDD]

We might certainly ask you the same question - and with real reason

Says the moron who can't read a simple graph...what a laugh.

 

[SSDD]

I'm truly sorry you find physics so tedious. But let's analyze your idea of spontaneity in physics.

I find physics endlessly interesting..you, on the other hand, are quite tedious.

So you say that no process in physics is spontaneous if work was done prior to an energy release after all work is ended. That almost sounds like a new law in thermodynamics. That certainly gives new meaning to your oft quoted Clausius statement of the second law:

I don't say it...physics says it. Here...one last attempt to provide you with a definition easy enough for you to understand.

What Is a Spontaneous Process?

A spontaneous process is one that will occur without any energy input from the surroundings. It is a process that will occur on its own. For example, a ball will roll down an incline, water will flow downhill, ice will melt into water, radioisotopes will decay, and iron will rust. No intervention is required because these processes are thermodynamically favorable. In other words, the initial energy is higher than the final energy.

is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow.

(Note that the bold faced phrase is past tense.)​

Also you had said man-made devices cannot create a spontaneous process because of the manufacturing work. So you have given us some new concepts of applications.

New to you perhaps...but not to science....or people who actually understand what the term spontaneous means...by the way...work being done..or work having been done is irrelevant...the speed at which a process occurs has nothing to do with whether or not it is spontaneous... Here...from the same link:

Note how quickly a process occurs has no bearing on whether or not it is spontaneous. It may take a long time for rust to become obvious, yet when iron is exposed to air the process will occur. A radioactive isotope may decay instantly or after thousands or millions or even billions of years.

As Tod indicated, you said light from the sun involves work (and is thereby not spontaneous.) So all earthly processes that rely on the sun are never spontaneous. CO2 can thereby emit back-radiation.[;/quote]

You know who is stupid? People who try to find a way around the second law of thermodynamics...

A warm man-made spectrometer can receive colder radiation.

So provide a measurement of a discrete wavelength of radiation from an object that is cooler than the instrument.

Two objects heated by scientists in a lab can always exchange radiation no matter their temperature difference.

Your reply is way beyond your ability to think in physics terms. You lack intuitive understanding of physics. You totally missed the self-contradiction I was referring to and launched into a doubling down on you idiocy in understanding the concept of spontaneous as it is defined and used in physics.

So is that your dodgy way of saying that you can't provide any such measurements?

Do you have any idea of how loud I am laughing in your face...you...who jumps on any crazy train that you think might take you on a scenic trip around the second law of thermodynamics...you..who argued for days that a f'ing flashlight represented a spontaneous release of energy? You are an endless source of mirth....

 

[SSDD]

The ground being unstable both rocks rolled down the hill.... You are saying #1 was spontaneous, # 2 was not spontaneous.
That is a pretty stupid way of thinking about gravitational potential energy turning into kinetic energy. Really stupid.

The definition of spontaneous is that there is no energy input from the outside...what is stupid is not being able to figure out what that means.

That goes back to your definition that that no process in physics is spontaneous if work was done prior to an energy release after all work is ended. And anything man-made cannot result in a spontaneous action.

It isn't my definition...it is science's definition... I just cut it and pasted it here...clearly it was a waste of time since anything that challenges your beliefs is immediately rejected. Another endless tedious characteristic you possess in spades.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The ground being unstable both rocks rolled down the hill.... You are saying #1 was spontaneous, # 2 was not spontaneous.
That is a pretty stupid way of thinking about gravitational potential energy turning into kinetic energy. Really stupid.

The definition of spontaneous is that there is no energy input from the outside...what is stupid is not being able to figure out what that means.

That goes back to your definition that that no process in physics is spontaneous if work was done prior to an energy release after all work is ended. And anything man-made cannot result in a spontaneous action.

It isn't my definition...it is science's definition... I just cut it and pasted it here...clearly it was a waste of time since anything that challenges your beliefs is immediately rejected. Another endless tedious characteristic you possess in spades.

The definition of spontaneous is that there is no energy input from the outside...what is stupid is not being able to figure out what that means.

GHGs in the atmosphere have any energy input from the outside?

 

[Wuwei]

So is that your dodgy way of saying that you can't provide any such measurements?

Do you have any idea of how loud I am laughing in your face...you...who jumps on any crazy train that you think might take you on a scenic trip around the second law of thermodynamics...you..who argued for days that a f'ing flashlight represented a spontaneous release of energy? You are an endless source of mirth....

Your maniacal mirth is a non-response to a physics issue that makes you look like a total fool. BTW you are only laughing at your monitor, not my face.

The definition of spontaneous is that there is no energy input from the outside...what is stupid is not being able to figure out what that means.

As I said by your own definition you cannot name any process that is not spontaneous. But these counterexamples and the self-contradictory conclusions of your hypotheses are what make you like a total idiot. You always said that energy can't flow from a colder to a warmer object without exception. However these are now your exceptions.

A man-made toaster can receive energy from a man-made cold slice of bread. That would of course be two-way energy exchange which everyone believes but you.

Similarly a person can radiate body warmth toward the sun because both are doing work.

Also, of more relevance, CO2 can back-radiate to earth because of the work involved.

According to you any experiment assembled in a lab is never spontaneous because it would be man-made. This would include any experiment involving temperature differences where radiation must be exchanged because of the work having been done.

You don't need to argue the science again. I am simply saying you have been continually seriously contradicting yourself. That is why I'm laughing at my monitor (but not in your face.)

.

 

[SSDD]

Your maniacal mirth is a non-response to a physics issue that makes you look like a total fool. BTW you are only laughing at your monitor, not my face.

refer to all the past instances in which you were asked to provide some actual evidence to support your beliefs...and the best you could do was come up with ridiculous examples that were just good enough to fool you.

As I said by your own definition you cannot name any process that is not spontaneous.{/quote]

Simply not true...but then you are a bald faced liar...refer to all the past times you were shown to be a liar...

 

[Crick]

Same Shit, your self-refutations, contradictions and convolutions have done nothing but show you a complete and utter dunce. It is YOUR completely arbitrary choices as to what does and does not constitute a spontaneous event that has everyone here simply shaking their head at your nonsense.

 

[SSDD]

Same Shit, your self-refutations, contradictions and convolutions have done nothing but show you a complete and utter dunce. It is YOUR completely arbitrary choices as to what does and does not constitute a spontaneous event that has everyone here simply shaking their head at your nonsense.

Says a fake engineer who can't even read a simple graph...laughing in your face skidmark. Bet you think a flashlight represents a spontaneous emission of energy as well...go ahead and admit it...you do...don't you?

 

[Crick]

I have not, so far, had any involvement in this discussion on spontaneous emissions. And, given your habit of flip-flopping on a near-hourly basis what you claim to be and not be spontaneous, I will continue to steer clear. I just wanted you to know that your flip flopping has been noticed by everyone paying any attention to all this and it makes you look the fool; an accurate impression as far as I can tell.

 

[Wuwei]

refer to all the past instances in which you were asked to provide some actual evidence to support your beliefs...and the best you could do was come up with ridiculous examples that were just good enough to fool you

I see you are dancing around again. You continually shoot yourself in the foot. You have been making two points:

1. Two-way heat flow never happens.

2. Two way heat flow always happens to anything that was man-made or had prior work done.

That includes practically every instance involving heat. Those two points are self-contradictory. Do you know what that even means?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The ground being unstable both rocks rolled down the hill.... You are saying #1 was spontaneous, # 2 was not spontaneous.
That is a pretty stupid way of thinking about gravitational potential energy turning into kinetic energy. Really stupid.

The definition of spontaneous is that there is no energy input from the outside...what is stupid is not being able to figure out what that means.

That goes back to your definition that that no process in physics is spontaneous if work was done prior to an energy release after all work is ended. And anything man-made cannot result in a spontaneous action.

It isn't my definition...it is science's definition... I just cut it and pasted it here...clearly it was a waste of time since anything that challenges your beliefs is immediately rejected. Another endless tedious characteristic you possess in spades.

The definition of spontaneous is that there is no energy input from the outside...what is stupid is not being able to figure out what that means.

GHGs in the atmosphere have any energy input from the outside?