"Government" is Not the Problem.

[AVG-JOE]

More important than the limitations imposed, The Constitution also outlines what our government should look like, what we should expect from it, such as protecting our permission to have deadly weapons.

Hey dummy.

It doesn't say "permission". It says "right".

Idiot.

Those words are synonymous.

_________________

Sidebar: Why the childish insults? Are you a child?

`​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Bullshit. The Constitution was written to describe the government - those limitations are simply a feature of the government that The Constitution describes.

Man... it's something else to watch you try and spin this.

You're a LONG way from the 2nd Amendment being a permission granted by government, as you originally argued. Why not just say... hey, I was wrong... I misspoke... wasn't thinking straight... something like that would save your credibility. Instead, your pride causes you to dance around with convoluted reiterations and awkward phraseology trying to explain your way out of a boneheaded statement.

The 2nd Amendment outlines one of our several inalienable rights which are endowed by our Creator. It's not a permission granted by government.

There it is!!!

The "God" requirement.

* face-palm *

As convoluted as the process has become, trust me when I say that no Deity in history has ever protected human rights as effectively as the United States Government has.

Just ask anyone who lived and died before The US Constitution was written.​

 

[Flash]

[

There is no government in the world that is composed of perfect people who won't do any 'monkey business'. It is kind of like their is no society in the world where a crime won't occur. It is just human nature.

Because human nature is bad, power hungry, corrupt and greedy we should not allow anybody to have any more government power than is minimally necessary. We sure as hell should not allow government thugs to take away our liberties or to take our money and give to somebody else.

The Bill of Rights was a step in the right direction but not near as strong as we need.

 

[Boss]

There it is!!!

The "God" requirement.

* face-palm *

And there it is... the explanation for why you don't comprehend our founding principles.

 

[AVG-JOE]

This is why we've been attempting to morph into a successful republic ever since the civil war sealed the deal on the sovereignty of the federal government.



Would the US look different today if the Blue-hairs in the north had let the wayward souls of Dixie find Jesus and give up slavery on their own terms?

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

There it is!!!

The "God" requirement.

* face-palm *

And there it is... the explanation for why you don't comprehend our founding principles.

Every time will I take The United States Constitution over any and all of the ancient Arab stories competing for governance over humanity. Every time.

Sharia Law and it's Judaeo-Christian cousins etc can kiss my ass.

`​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Please point out how that post indicates in any way that I said that the government came before The Constitution.

I said that The Constitution IS the government.

You adamantly insisted it was the government who gave us permission to own firearms.

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

Now, you are still trying to wiggle around and make an incorrect point that you failed making the first time. NO... the Constitution is NOT the government. The Constitution established the government.

Well no shit, Sherlock!

Two gold stars and a cookie for you.

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

Somewhere between a bb gun and an aircraft carrier loaded with thermonuclear war heads is a list of weapons that an average American Joe like me can own and someone is enforcing that list. I've been looking for a nuke (for defensive purposes ) and they are a ***** to come by.


Boss, I guarantee you that you and Crusader Frank are NOT preventing me from acquiring a nuke, so... by process of elimination, it must be "the government".



We, The Peeps.

Enforced by The FBI and The United States Marine Corps, among others.

The US Constitution: Awesome on paper, but messy when you get down to actually dividing up the resources and protecting those efforts by it's standards.


​

 

[AVG-JOE]

The Constitution of TX.

That's amazing. Well congrats to you for being one of the few free property owners in this land!

Thanks, but there's probably millions of us in my State.

I own a house in your state... Paid thousands in taxes. Forgive me if I don't believe you

Check the State Constitution on 100% disabled vets and their spouses. We are exempt from property taxes.

So it's not a "Freedom" thing... It's a "dependent-on-the-state entitlement" thing.

I can work with that...

No it's a State honoring its vets thing ignorant ass.

No offense intended! I will proudly sign up for the government entitlements that I'm entitled to when I'm ready to do so.

Just like you, I earned them, The Constitution owes me, and I truly hope that the system / government survives me.

`​

 

[bripat9643]

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

"The government gave us permission?" You're obviously an idiot who doesn't understand the meaning of "Constitutional rights."

 

[AVG-JOE]

I get it, was still written by the governing powers.

Not a central government. You DON'T get it.

I do get it... It was a government made up of the states and they expanded to a central government... Either way the ones that control and govern are the people made the laws. Brilliant document they created btw. Why are we even arguing over this?

Because the idiot you’re arguing with is functioning under the wrongheaded notion that the states have ‘more power’ than the Federal government, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

And don’t bother citing Article VI, Section 2 of the Constitution, like most on the right he’ll ignore it and remain willfully ignorant.

No, it's article 5 that proves you wrong, it gives the States the power to change or abolish the federal government at will, without any federal involvement, the States having such power says they are the sovereigns, not the feds.

And then, when some states tried it in the mid 1800's, The Republican Party was born to call 'bullshit' on that concept at the point of a gun, establishing once and for all the dominance and sovereignty of the federal government.

Sure, keep telling yourself that. All you proved was Lincoln was a criminal, but the States could easily strip the feds of powers today using article 5 and the military would back them.

I'd believe it if I saw it and I'd deal with it.

'Till then...

​

 

[MaryL]

The government isn't the problem. It's all those damned civilians with guns that are. Killing little kids, innocent people for the flimsiest of reasons, terrorist, mad men, paranoid delusionals . Strange self destructive people. Everybody needs a gun? This is maddness. Let's end it.

 

[bripat9643]

You all are funny, your freedom is an illusion only permissible by the government. Luckily it is a fluid group of elected officials with checks and balances rather than a ruling dictator, king or family. But make no mistake, you rent the land you live on from the Gov. You rent the right to do business and commerce with the governments dollars, and you rent the right to live free as long as you abide by their contract (laws)... Don't believe me, go break the laws... don't pay your income, business, or property taxes... See what happens

You are servile to the core. You aren't fit to live in a free country. If the majority of voters had your attitude, this country would quickly devolve into a people's republic.

 

[AVG-JOE]

"The government gave us permission?" You're obviously an idiot who doesn't understand the meaning of "Constitutional rights."

And your insults betray that you obviously do not understand the concept of "America" woven into The Constitution.

 

[bripat9643]

More important than the limitations imposed, The Constitution also outlines what our government should look like, what we should expect from it, such as protecting our permission to have deadly weapons.

Hey dummy.

It doesn't say "permission". It says "right".

Idiot.

Those words are synonymous.

_________________

Sidebar: Why the childish insults? Are you a child?

`​

God are you ever an idiot.

 

[bripat9643]

"The government gave us permission?" You're obviously an idiot who doesn't understand the meaning of "Constitutional rights."

And your insults betray that you obviously do not understand the concept of "America" woven into The Constitution.

I understand them precisely.

 

[AVG-JOE]

That's the trouble with liberals. They think freedom comes from the government instead of the other way around.

Government is a tool.

Freedom comes from he who has the keys to the military.



Now kneel and thank your preferred Deity that you were born when and where you were and not during The Spanish Inquisition.

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

God are you ever an idiot.

You should maybe think about picking a different Deity if that's how you feel, Bro'.

 

[AVG-JOE]

++

you mean SJ? yeah, I know.

but, for the record, the court parses words, too.

Which is total valid when making a legal argument... If thats what you two were doing then I retract my statement. I thought this was more of an ideological/moral argument, where the word games get real old.

he was claiming that the legislature is not charged with the providing for the general welfare of the citizenry and claims some distinction based upon the word "promote" as used in the constitution.

given the caselaw, (however limited on the subject of the general welfare clause) I pointed out it was a distinction without a difference.

I agree... To promote entails providing something... What that something is should be determined by our elected leaders

exactly. bur for some reason, our rightleaners seem to resent anything that does provide for the general welfare.

We resent politicians who think they can change the Constitution at will and interpret it to mean something it does not.

Then I hope you vote and do your part to influence the gullible!

 

[OKTexas]

That's amazing. Well congrats to you for being one of the few free property owners in this land!

Thanks, but there's probably millions of us in my State.

I own a house in your state... Paid thousands in taxes. Forgive me if I don't believe you

Check the State Constitution on 100% disabled vets and their spouses. We are exempt from property taxes.

So it's not a "Freedom" thing... It's a "dependent-on-the-state entitlement" thing.

I can work with that...

No it's a State honoring its vets thing ignorant ass.

No offense intended! I will proudly sign up for the government entitlements that I'm entitled to when I'm ready to do so.

Just like you, I earned them, The Constitution owes me, and I truly hope that the system / government survives me.

`​

What you have yet to figure out is the difference between benefits and entitlements, benefits are earned, entitlements aren't. You pay for your benefits one way or the other, entitlements are gifts.

 

[AVG-JOE]

"Government" is Not the Problem."

Soon it will be less of a problem than it is now.

Dude!

Ya got your crystal balls back, eh?