Gop wants to reduce what private insurance covers and the dims want to end private insurance.

[buckeye45_73]

And if you're not insured, you can usually bargain with the doctor to pay the actual prices, and rather than the inflated price they charge insured customers. I went without health insurance for years, even while raising my two sons, and I got pretty good at cutting these kinds of deals.

Wow, how naive can you get.

Naive enough to not believe the insurance salesmen. It's mostly a scam.

I didn't need a salesman to know the value of health insurance. You had children & could have had a heart attack putting your family in the street So really, you are that stupid.

No, what should happen is you should be reimbursed by the insurance company after you find the procedure and pay for it.....if you want lower cost, you cant have the patient dislodged from the cost......it's why consumer electronics are so cheap.......because people cant buy what they cant afford.

So I pay for my $400k heart issue &then hope the insurance company pays me? How does that help if the providers know you will get reimbursed?

Well easy, you shop for it, if the doctor says 400k, you say Ill keep looking and maybe find one for 320k.....Do you not know how to shop for a deal? Is this new? Right now, that doesn't happen.....

 

[RealDave]

prostate exams were covered before obamacare and again I guess I should say depending on what insurance company and state.

Remember the great ObamaCare benefit of paying for colonoscopies? I paid over $3000 out of pocket for my "covered" colonoscopy. Prior to ObamaCare, it would have covered at 90% under my company provided health insurance. How did ObamaCare help that situation?

Being such a big asshole I would have expected you would have been given a discount [lol]. But, I digress. A colonoscopy is preventative medicine, and ought to be free, since not having early detection the cost will be much expensive if cancer is diagnosed years later.

I have Kaiser, and there was no cost for my colonoscopy., no cost for my annual physical and no cost for labs.

Why should it be free? resources are used to perform those......I know you hate paying for goods and services, but that's how the country works. If you want to afford shit, stop going to school for a useless degree and take ownership of your own life and make it happen.

It isn't free dumbass. It is covered by the premiums paid. The idea is for people to get screen & find problems before they grow into major expenditures. Insurance companies love this shit.

ok, if they love it, then why are you complaining they don't do it?

It is cheaper to pay for 10 colonoscopies that treating colon cancer.

That is the point to making insurance companies offer these services without co-pay.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Our country need a "come to Jesus" moment - we need to face the reality that, in the end, insurance makes health care less affordable for everyone. It's a kind of pyramid scam that undermines markets and drives prices higher and higher. We're better off paying for as much of our own health care as we can possibly afford.

That moment is single payer See we agree.

Nope. We don't agree. Single payer is even worse. It's still insurance. But instead of a handful of corporate giants running things, it reduces it to one, and forces us to pay premiums (in the form of taxes) whether we want to or not. It's hard to see that as a win.

You do realize that a $50k hospital bill will bankrupt over half of all Americans, right? Keel over & get major heart surgery and you just whip out that credit card to pay that $400K bill. You are being ridiculous,

And what kind of father risks their kid's well being by not carrying health insutrance? Really?

A poor one. It wasn't by choice. I did what I had to do. And found out it's not nearly as scary as the insurance salesmen want you to believe.

You're making the case for catastrophic insurance - which I support. But this ridiculous fantasy that insurance is a club you join to have the bulk of your health care paid for by someone else killing us. Peddle your snake oil somewhere else, insurance salesman.

I'm for Medicare for all & **** the insurance guy.

Of course you are, life is too tough to do it yourself. I mean gotta watch Maury, cant be bothered with actually investing time into your own affairs.....oh and of course that whole I'lll take shitty socialist insurance so I don't have to pay anything...

 

[buckeye45_73]

Remember the great ObamaCare benefit of paying for colonoscopies? I paid over $3000 out of pocket for my "covered" colonoscopy. Prior to ObamaCare, it would have covered at 90% under my company provided health insurance. How did ObamaCare help that situation?

Being such a big asshole I would have expected you would have been given a discount [lol]. But, I digress. A colonoscopy is preventative medicine, and ought to be free, since not having early detection the cost will be much expensive if cancer is diagnosed years later.

I have Kaiser, and there was no cost for my colonoscopy., no cost for my annual physical and no cost for labs.

Why should it be free? resources are used to perform those......I know you hate paying for goods and services, but that's how the country works. If you want to afford shit, stop going to school for a useless degree and take ownership of your own life and make it happen.

It isn't free dumbass. It is covered by the premiums paid. The idea is for people to get screen & find problems before they grow into major expenditures. Insurance companies love this shit.

ok, if they love it, then why are you complaining they don't do it?

It is cheaper to pay for 10 colonoscopies that treating colon cancer.

That is the point to making insurance companies offer these services without co-pay.

Wait, so you have two separate issues:
1) to offer colonoscopies
2)no copay

Which one are you having the issue with?

 

[hadit]

And if you're not insured, you can usually bargain with the doctor to pay the actual prices, and rather than the inflated price they charge insured customers. I went without health insurance for years, even while raising my two sons, and I got pretty good at cutting these kinds of deals.

Wow, how naive can you get.

Naive enough to not believe the insurance salesmen. It's mostly a scam.

I didn't need a salesman to know the value of health insurance. You had children & could have had a heart attack putting your family in the street So really, you are that stupid.

No, what should happen is you should be reimbursed by the insurance company after you find the procedure and pay for it.....if you want lower cost, you cant have the patient dislodged from the cost......it's why consumer electronics are so cheap.......because people cant buy what they cant afford.

Cost sharing cooperatives function like that. They allow individuals to carry catastrophic coverage while sharing lower costs. I don't know why there aren't more of them.

A story about costs from my days working at the company that does all the matching between organ donors and recipients in the US. When Steve Jobs needed a liver, he went to every OPO in the nation and registered. Then, when a compatible liver became available, he flew in on his private jet, had the operation, then bought a house where he could live while he recuperated. Unfair? Probably, but if I had a loved one with that need and those resources, I'd want them to do it too.

 

[dblack]

Our country need a "come to Jesus" moment - we need to face the reality that, in the end, insurance makes health care less affordable for everyone. It's a kind of pyramid scam that undermines markets and drives prices higher and higher. We're better off paying for as much of our own health care as we can possibly afford.

That moment is single payer See we agree.

Nope. We don't agree. Single payer is even worse. It's still insurance. But instead of a handful of corporate giants running things, it reduces it to one, and forces us to pay premiums (in the form of taxes) whether we want to or not. It's hard to see that as a win.

You do realize that a $50k hospital bill will bankrupt over half of all Americans, right? Keel over & get major heart surgery and you just whip out that credit card to pay that $400K bill. You are being ridiculous,

And what kind of father risks their kid's well being by not carrying health insutrance? Really?

A poor one. It wasn't by choice. I did what I had to do. And found out it's not nearly as scary as the insurance salesmen want you to believe.

You're making the case for catastrophic insurance - which I support. But this ridiculous fantasy that insurance is a club you join to have the bulk of your health care paid for by someone else killing us. Peddle your snake oil somewhere else, insurance salesman.

I'm for Medicare for all & **** the insurance guy.

Uh huh. Medicare is farmed out to insurance companies. You're not fooling anyone.

 

[RealDave]

Being such a big asshole I would have expected you would have been given a discount [lol]. But, I digress. A colonoscopy is preventative medicine, and ought to be free, since not having early detection the cost will be much expensive if cancer is diagnosed years later.

I have Kaiser, and there was no cost for my colonoscopy., no cost for my annual physical and no cost for labs.

Why should it be free? resources are used to perform those......I know you hate paying for goods and services, but that's how the country works. If you want to afford shit, stop going to school for a useless degree and take ownership of your own life and make it happen.

It isn't free dumbass. It is covered by the premiums paid. The idea is for people to get screen & find problems before they grow into major expenditures. Insurance companies love this shit.

ok, if they love it, then why are you complaining they don't do it?

It is cheaper to pay for 10 colonoscopies that treating colon cancer.

That is the point to making insurance companies offer these services without co-pay.

Wait, so you have two separate issues:
1) to offer colonoscopies
2)no copay

Which one are you having the issue with?

It was an example.

 

[RealDave]

That moment is single payer See we agree.

Nope. We don't agree. Single payer is even worse. It's still insurance. But instead of a handful of corporate giants running things, it reduces it to one, and forces us to pay premiums (in the form of taxes) whether we want to or not. It's hard to see that as a win.

You do realize that a $50k hospital bill will bankrupt over half of all Americans, right? Keel over & get major heart surgery and you just whip out that credit card to pay that $400K bill. You are being ridiculous,

And what kind of father risks their kid's well being by not carrying health insutrance? Really?

A poor one. It wasn't by choice. I did what I had to do. And found out it's not nearly as scary as the insurance salesmen want you to believe.

You're making the case for catastrophic insurance - which I support. But this ridiculous fantasy that insurance is a club you join to have the bulk of your health care paid for by someone else killing us. Peddle your snake oil somewhere else, insurance salesman.

I'm for Medicare for all & **** the insurance guy.

Uh huh. Medicare is farmed out to insurance companies. You're not fooling anyone.

The clerical work needs done. Are you confising clerivpcal work with how the plan is enacted?

 

[RealDave]

Wow, how naive can you get.

Naive enough to not believe the insurance salesmen. It's mostly a scam.

I didn't need a salesman to know the value of health insurance. You had children & could have had a heart attack putting your family in the street So really, you are that stupid.

No, what should happen is you should be reimbursed by the insurance company after you find the procedure and pay for it.....if you want lower cost, you cant have the patient dislodged from the cost......it's why consumer electronics are so cheap.......because people cant buy what they cant afford.

So I pay for my $400k heart issue &then hope the insurance company pays me? How does that help if the providers know you will get reimbursed?

Well easy, you shop for it, if the doctor says 400k, you say Ill keep looking and maybe find one for 320k.....Do you not know how to shop for a deal? Is this new? Right now, that doesn't happen.....

So, you are lying on the floor getting CPR & you are calling for quotes? Really?>

 

[dblack]

Nope. We don't agree. Single payer is even worse. It's still insurance. But instead of a handful of corporate giants running things, it reduces it to one, and forces us to pay premiums (in the form of taxes) whether we want to or not. It's hard to see that as a win.

You do realize that a $50k hospital bill will bankrupt over half of all Americans, right? Keel over & get major heart surgery and you just whip out that credit card to pay that $400K bill. You are being ridiculous,

And what kind of father risks their kid's well being by not carrying health insutrance? Really?

A poor one. It wasn't by choice. I did what I had to do. And found out it's not nearly as scary as the insurance salesmen want you to believe.

You're making the case for catastrophic insurance - which I support. But this ridiculous fantasy that insurance is a club you join to have the bulk of your health care paid for by someone else killing us. Peddle your snake oil somewhere else, insurance salesman.

I'm for Medicare for all & **** the insurance guy.

Uh huh. Medicare is farmed out to insurance companies. You're not fooling anyone.

The clerical work needs done. Are you confising clerivpcal work with how the plan is enacted?

I'm pointing out that insurance companies make big bucks from Medicare now. "Medicare for All" will be an even bigger cash cow for them.

Big 5 insurers depend on Medicare, Medicaid for growth in enrollment, profits

 

[buckeye45_73]

Naive enough to not believe the insurance salesmen. It's mostly a scam.

I didn't need a salesman to know the value of health insurance. You had children & could have had a heart attack putting your family in the street So really, you are that stupid.

No, what should happen is you should be reimbursed by the insurance company after you find the procedure and pay for it.....if you want lower cost, you cant have the patient dislodged from the cost......it's why consumer electronics are so cheap.......because people cant buy what they cant afford.

So I pay for my $400k heart issue &then hope the insurance company pays me? How does that help if the providers know you will get reimbursed?

Well easy, you shop for it, if the doctor says 400k, you say Ill keep looking and maybe find one for 320k.....Do you not know how to shop for a deal? Is this new? Right now, that doesn't happen.....

So, you are lying on the floor getting CPR & you are calling for quotes? Really?>

See this is a bullshit post.....
If you need CPR you are going to the emergency room......just like......drum roll...........we do now......your example is bullshit
Most people see doctors, like cardiologists and they can call them and get quotes......it's amazing how that works.

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is a losing proposition for the Republicans. Going back to pre-ACA days means no protections for pre-exisiring conditions, higher deductibles and exclusion of millions from Heath care.

The Republicans lost the House in 2018 because Americans want reliable health care, not dictates from insurance companies more concerned with the bottom line than the health of their policy holders.

OMG, the scare tactics! "You have to do what we want, because the ONLY alternative is to die in the streets with no doctors AT ALL!!!!"

File your response under “Death Panels”.

Was actually planning to file YOUR posts in the circular file so the janitor can empty them tonight.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.

Trump asks courts to outlaw ‘Obamacare’ while claiming GOP as the ‘party of health care’

The decision to cover or not to cover should be at the discretion of the insurance companies

Minimum coverages are set to protect the consumer.

Yes, I definitely need to be protected from the "horrors" of having a health care plan that doesn't cover prostate exams or birth control. What would I, a 50-year-old woman, do without those "essential" coverages in my life? And how could anyone POSSIBLY assume I'm intelligent enough to decide for myself what I do and don't need, simply because I'm an adult who looks after herself on everything else in my life?

Callous conservatism on display ^^^.

Q. When did so many American citizens become so greedy, and have no concern for their fellow citizens

How is a female that is over 50, callous? Why should a person be forced to pay to cover health issues she will never have? That makes no sense? Can you actually answer the question?

Presumably, they can't conceive of a world where THEY can have coverage for prostate exams without ME having it. After all, humans are all just interchangeable drones in the collective, not individuals.

 

[dblack]

No, what should happen is you should be reimbursed by the insurance company after you find the procedure and pay for it.....if you want lower cost, you cant have the patient dislodged from the cost......it's why consumer electronics are so cheap.......because people cant buy what they cant afford.

Yes this is key. I also find it infuriating when a doctor bases their decisions about what services I should get based on my insurance coverage. In effect, it's a kind of collusion between the insurance company and the doctors, each seeking to limit their risks at the expense of the patient.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Minimum coverages are set to protect the consumer.

Yes, I definitely need to be protected from the "horrors" of having a health care plan that doesn't cover prostate exams or birth control. What would I, a 50-year-old woman, do without those "essential" coverages in my life? And how could anyone POSSIBLY assume I'm intelligent enough to decide for myself what I do and don't need, simply because I'm an adult who looks after herself on everything else in my life?

Callous conservatism on display ^^^.

Q. When did so many American citizens become so greedy, and have no concern for their fellow citizens

How is a female that is over 50, callous? Why should a person be forced to pay to cover health issues she will never have? That makes no sense? Can you actually answer the question?

Sure, insurance companies do not exist to pay claims, thus, most of us pay for surgeries and treatments we may never need.

Prior to Obamacare, females over 50 and men didn't pay for maternity coverage. The vast majority of them didn't pay for coverage for sex change operations either.

I can't fathom why it's such a difficult concept that people should be able to decide for themselves what insurance they want to pay for. We do it with car insurance, homeowners' insurance, every other damned insurance under the sun, but when it comes to health insurance, suddenly everyone has to have the same "minimum coverage" for every frigging organ system and possible illness under the sun, whether it has anything to do with you or not.

 

[dblack]

Yes, I definitely need to be protected from the "horrors" of having a health care plan that doesn't cover prostate exams or birth control. What would I, a 50-year-old woman, do without those "essential" coverages in my life? And how could anyone POSSIBLY assume I'm intelligent enough to decide for myself what I do and don't need, simply because I'm an adult who looks after herself on everything else in my life?

Callous conservatism on display ^^^.

Q. When did so many American citizens become so greedy, and have no concern for their fellow citizens

How is a female that is over 50, callous? Why should a person be forced to pay to cover health issues she will never have? That makes no sense? Can you actually answer the question?

Sure, insurance companies do not exist to pay claims, thus, most of us pay for surgeries and treatments we may never need.

Prior to Obamacare, females over 50 and men didn't pay for maternity coverage. The vast majority of them didn't pay for coverage for sex change operations either.

I can't fathom why it's such a difficult concept that people should be able to decide for themselves what insurance they want to pay for. We do it with car insurance, homeowners' insurance, every other damned insurance under the sun, but when it comes to health insurance, suddenly everyone has to have the same "minimum coverage" for every frigging organ system and possible illness under the sun, whether it has anything to do with you or not.

It's all about power and profit. The health insurance industry gave up on free markets and got in bed with government. That's where we're at. Now the socialists want to go all in on that collusion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

A GP/MD deserves no more money than an architect and a heart/vascular surgeon deserves no more than a master cabinet/furniture design/ builder.
Both require equal time/education/experience and, generally speaking, one can not do the others type of work. Therin lies your problem....
OOOPS. SHALOM !

ROFL! You're serious? Do you actually believe that a cabinet maker could do what a heart surgeon does? Being a cabinet maker requires a high school education, moron.

And an apprenticeship usually, yeah. And no one dies if you make a mistake.

But, y'know, other than that, they're exactly alike.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Giving freedom and liberty back to the American people.

Yea...the freedom to DIE because you can't get healthcare you can afford

I'll agree that YOUR doctor deserves far less than virtually any professional, since I don't value YOUR life in the slightest.

MY life, however, is worth quite a bit more.

There ya go folks.

That's Republican thinking.
"I got mine so **** you"

If you think that the ACA is affordable you are more stupid than you look

Now in Lesh's defense, nobody could be THAT stupid and still breathe!

What can we say? She's an overachiever, and has obviously proven you mistaken on that.

 

[Ambivalent1]

That moment is single payer See we agree.

Nope. We don't agree. Single payer is even worse. It's still insurance. But instead of a handful of corporate giants running things, it reduces it to one, and forces us to pay premiums (in the form of taxes) whether we want to or not. It's hard to see that as a win.

You do realize that a $50k hospital bill will bankrupt over half of all Americans, right? Keel over & get major heart surgery and you just whip out that credit card to pay that $400K bill. You are being ridiculous,

And what kind of father risks their kid's well being by not carrying health insutrance? Really?

A poor one. It wasn't by choice. I did what I had to do. And found out it's not nearly as scary as the insurance salesmen want you to believe.

You're making the case for catastrophic insurance - which I support. But this ridiculous fantasy that insurance is a club you join to have the bulk of your health care paid for by someone else killing us. Peddle your snake oil somewhere else, insurance salesman.

I'm for Medicare for all & **** the insurance guy.

Uh huh. Medicare is farmed out to insurance companies. You're not fooling anyone.

Not so much. You have "original Medicare which is Part A and Part B. In most plans the Gov is primary
They pay first, then the Private companies pay. The advantage plans replace OM in that they, not the Gov pay, those plans are called Part C

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Our country need a "come to Jesus" moment - we need to face the reality that, in the end, insurance makes health care less affordable for everyone. It's a kind of pyramid scam that undermines markets and drives prices higher and higher. We're better off paying for as much of our own health care as we can possibly afford.

The average Joe American isn't educated enough in finance or economics to understand this.