GOP Debate Thread

[theunbubba]

Doesn't propping up the tin pot despot of the week as the greatest threat to the world since *GAAAAAASP* Hitler ever get seriously old.

Doesn't running around acting like the reincarnation of Neville Chamberlain ever get old?

Fuck you, asshole.

Iran is nowhere near the threat that either Nazi German or Soviet Russia were.

Get a fucking grip.

Ah I see I hit a libtard nerve. Too bad there squeaky. Hitler wasn't a threat until he built his forces up while the world pissed away valuable time.

Kiss my ass.

 

[Intense]

Doesn't propping up the tin pot despot of the week as the greatest threat to the world since *GAAAAAASP* Hitler ever get seriously old.

Doesn't running around acting like the reincarnation of Neville Chamberlain ever get old?

Fuck you, asshole.

Iran is nowhere near the threat that either Nazi German or Soviet Russia were.

Get a fucking grip.

Agreed. It is more subversive. It is simmering. Maybe if we could just get the kids addicted to IPods and Computer Games they will take a pass on Martyrdom.

 

[theunbubba]

You say that Perry is knowledgeable about Mexico, which I didn't dispute. You didn't address any of my objections to relying upon Perry as an authority. Also, you didn't answer my question about Texas' intelligence agency: are you withdrawing your claim? Finally, I don't know what you mean by "throw straw", it doesn't seem to be a common English idiom and I assume you didn't mean it literally. If you mean that I had constructed a straw man, then I don't know what you're referring to. I stand by all the statements of mine quoted above.

Ah, here we go. The NYTimes has Perry's exact words, along with some factchecking (scroll to 10:08):

Sioux City, Iowa Republican Debate | New York Times Live Blog - Live Debate - Election 2012 - NYTimes.com

They say that the US State Department issued a report contradicting Perry's statement. You suggested that Perry's authority came from the fact that Texas is big and has intelligence capabilities. I suppose you're saying that Texas is bigger than the USA and has more extensive foreign intelligence capabilites (see, now *that* is a straw man argument).

Blog posts?LMAO you are reaching for the straw. :
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHQj5EGc5o]Glenn Beck & Al-Jazeera TV on "Hezbollah in Mexico" - YouTube[/ame]

 

[theunbubba]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QZR9S_hOE&feature=related]Undercover Agent Discusses Hezbollah in Mexico - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Oscar Wao]

Joseph Cirincione -- Five Myths About Iran's Nuclear Program

 

[Oscar Wao]

PolitiFact | Michele Bachmann says Iran has threatened to launch nuclear attack against Israel, United States

Fact Check on Iran

 

[theunbubba]

Politifact:
Supporting libtard lies for several years.
What a joke.

 

[Oddball]

Doesn't running around acting like the reincarnation of Neville Chamberlain ever get old?

Fuck you, asshole.

Iran is nowhere near the threat that either Nazi German or Soviet Russia were.

Get a fucking grip.

Agreed. It is more subversive. It is simmering. Maybe if we could just get the kids addicted to IPods and Computer Games they will take a pass on Martyrdom.

No maybe about it.

Maybe if would-be suicide bombers were into computer games and IPods as much as American kids, they could be distracted from jihad just as effectively as American kids are distracted from the Constitution.

Think about it.

 

[Oddball]

Politifact:
Supporting libtard lies for several years.
What a joke.

Ad hominem attacks:

Supporting willful ignorance for millennia.

 

[ladyliberal]

You say that Perry is knowledgeable about Mexico, which I didn't dispute. You didn't address any of my objections to relying upon Perry as an authority. Also, you didn't answer my question about Texas' intelligence agency: are you withdrawing your claim? Finally, I don't know what you mean by "throw straw", it doesn't seem to be a common English idiom and I assume you didn't mean it literally. If you mean that I had constructed a straw man, then I don't know what you're referring to. I stand by all the statements of mine quoted above.

Ah, here we go. The NYTimes has Perry's exact words, along with some factchecking (scroll to 10:08):

Sioux City, Iowa Republican Debate | New York Times Live Blog - Live Debate - Election 2012 - NYTimes.com

They say that the US State Department issued a report contradicting Perry's statement. You suggested that Perry's authority came from the fact that Texas is big and has intelligence capabilities. I suppose you're saying that Texas is bigger than the USA and has more extensive foreign intelligence capabilites (see, now *that* is a straw man argument).

Blog posts?LMAO you are reaching for the straw. :
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHQj5EGc5o]Glenn Beck & Al-Jazeera TV on "Hezbollah in Mexico" - YouTube[/ame]

Sorry, what was I thinking? Of course the New York Times blog is worthless as a secondary source. Here's the article (see, not a blog) http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/23/u...rorism-and-a-different-birth-certificate.html

Anticipating your next reflexive objection, here is the State Department report:

Country Reports on Terrorism 2010 Western Hemisphere Overview

It notes that

"There were no known operational cells of either al-Qa’ida- or Hizballah-related groups in the hemisphere, although ideological sympathizers in South America and the Caribbean continued to provide financial and moral support to these and other terrorist groups in the Middle East and South Asia."

It does note specific Hizballah-related activity in certain countries. Mexico is not one of them. As a reminder, the statement being factchecked is, according to the NYTimes (yes, one of their blogs)

Perry: Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas "are using Mexico as a way to penetrate into the southern part of the United States."

I will admit, if you like, that it is logically impossible to prove that they *aren't* trying to penetrate the US in exactly this way.

 

[Intense]

Law Of The Sea


Iran says closing the waterway is justified because governments like the United States and Britain have imposed economic sanctions on Tehran over its nuclear program, which they believe is a front for weapons development and which Tehran insists is peaceful. Iran's saber-rattling in the strait is aimed at heading off increasing efforts to curb its oil exports, and it says maritime law supports such a move.

But James Kraska, a professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College's Center for Naval Warfare Studies, says relevant law in this case is the UN's 1982 Convention on the Law of the Sea.


"Under that convention, transit through international straits is guaranteed for all countries, so there would not be a legal basis to close the [Hormuz] Strait," he said. "And transit through the strait includes transit in the air, on the surface, as well as under the water. There's no requirement to seek the coastal states' permission, and there's no lawful basis for the coastal states to impede the transit."


Neither Iran nor the United States are among the treaty's 150 signatories, but Kraska says the convention is "customary law" that has been recognized for centuries. The waters in the strait have dual status, he says. They are technically Iranian territory, but they are also an international strait, and that gives foreign ships "a higher right of transit."

Naval Power Rules


But let's say Iran blocks it anyway. Does it have the military capacity to then take on a naval power like the United States, which is certain to respond?


A 2008 report by the Washington Institute for Near East Policy said Iran was "essentially in control of the world's oil lifeline" and had the capability to "wage unique asymmetric warfare against larger naval forces." The institute's Michael Eisenstadt says blocking the strait is "something Iran has been preparing for for years."


"Iran has been investing for decades now on creating a naval guerrilla force which would have the capability of at least interfering with shipping through the Strait of Hormuz and perhaps closing it, at least temporarily, using a combination of mines, small boats, antiship cruise missiles, submarines -- both midget submarines as well as conventional submarines -- and most recently ballistic missiles," Eisenstadt says.


Karasik of the Institute for Near East & Gulf Military Analysis agrees. "Iran's specialty is asymmetric warfare," he notes. "This is what they practice in their simulations and their exercises. This includes the use of small ships or boats, also suicide boats, underwater warfare capability, combined with the use of ballistic and cruise missiles. So they can pack a punch if they are able to get these weapons off the ground."

Explainer: Iran's Threat to Blockade The Strait Of Hormuz

 

[Oddball]

Iran trying to blockade the Strait of Hormuz will piss off a lot more than America.

More yipping and yapping from the dopey despot strawman of the week.

Dude, quit falling for it.

 

[Oscar Wao]

If I were Ron Paul, I'd calculate the cost of war with Iran, then at a debate, I'd say "OK, fine, we'll go to war with Iran. But, WE are going to fund it, that way the national debt doesn't go up!" Then, I'd give them the figures.

More support for Paul would skyrocket in seconds.

 

[dblack]

The frustrating thing is, there's really no denying Ron Paul could do a better job of presenting his views.

 

[Oddball]

The frustrating thing is, there's really no denying Ron Paul could do a better job of presenting his views.

Too bad that Harry Browne is dead.

Let me channel........


"The Middle East policy doesn't work because gubmint doesn't work....You want to put the same people who have bankrupted Social Security in charge of foreign policy?....You want the same jackholes that caused the housing bubble to tell us how to conduct trade with China?...Haven't you heard that the Postal Service (A FUCKING MONOPOLY!) can't find a way to support their operations?....How do you expect that the same mindset projected onto an international level will achieve any better results?

C'mon, neocons....Dazzle us.

 

[WillowTree]

Romney is calling for a card that legal immigrants carry and that they have to produce to get a job. Isn't that the system we have now (green card)?

I asked you why you call it an "absurb claim" about Hezbollah entering the US from the Southern border? Do you have an answer?

 

[SAT2]

We are going to have to disagree. Santorum showed that he clearly understands the Iranian regime.

You can't use the same policies you use against an athiestic communist regime aganst a Twelver regime.

The people in power in Iran desire a continuation of that power. Not to usher in the apocalypse.

 

[SAT2]

Ron Paul is no Teddy Roosevelt. TR was the first President to talk about national health care-Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die. Paul is the anti-TR.

 

[dblack]

Ron Paul is no Teddy Roosevelt. TR was the first President to talk about national health care-Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die. Paul is the anti-TR.

Who makes this shit up? Did you think it up on your own?

 

[Intense]

Iran trying to blockade the Strait of Hormuz will piss off a lot more than America.

More yipping and yapping from the dopey despot strawman of the week.

Dude, quit falling for it.

I'm relaying current information, without comment. You are projecting.