GOP Debate Thread

[Avatar4321]

We are going to have to disagree. Santorum showed that he clearly understands the Iranian regime.

You can't use the same policies you use against an athiestic communist regime aganst a Twelver regime.

The people in power in Iran desire a continuation of that power. Not to usher in the apocalypse.

You are clearly unfamiliar with Twelver theology. They believe that they do gain power by ushering in the Apocalypse.

 

[Avatar4321]

Ron Paul is no Teddy Roosevelt. TR was the first President to talk about national health care-Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die. Paul is the anti-TR.

That's one of his best selling points.

 

[LibertyForAll]

I have. It's not. Paul is playing you for a fool.

The only fool here is you, tovarich.....Go peddle your Marxist bullshit over at DU.

Wow, knowing what fascism means makes me a Marxist? That's a new one.

Fascism (play /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek to rejuvenate their nation based on commitment to the national community as an organic entity, in which individuals are bound together in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood.[3] To achieve this, fascists purge forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration.[3] Fascists advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through indoctrination, physical education, discipline and family policy (such as eugenics).[4][5] That state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the fascist movement, the government and other state institutions.[6] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition.[7]

Fascism promotes political violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[4][8] It views violence as a fact of life that is a necessary means to achieve human progress.[9] It exalts militarism as providing positive transformation in society and providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people's character and creating national comradeship through military service.[10] Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violent attacks on opponents or to overthrow a political system.[11]

Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tell me about all the violence with Fannie and Freddie.

You left off this Key paragraph from your post.

In economics, fascists oppose economic liberalism (as a bourgeois movement) and Marxism (as a proletarian movement) for being class-based movements.[16] Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that advocates resolving economic class conflict to secure national solidarity.[17] Fascists advocate: a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation; the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation or state; the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient; and autarky.[3] They are hostile to finance capitalism, plutocracy, the "power of money", and internationalist economics.[3]


I am assuming it was because it didn't actually support you and DID support what Dr. Paul said in the debate last night. I think that was rather dishonest on your part.

 

[SAT2]

Ron Paul is no Teddy Roosevelt. TR was the first President to talk about national health care-Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die. Paul is the anti-TR.

Who makes this shit up? Did you think it up on your own?

Yes, I did. Tell me what you need to have explained.

You are clearly unfamiliar with Twelver theology. They believe that they do gain power by ushering in the Apocalypse.

I clearly am familiar with it, and also with the fundamentalist Christian equivalent. Those who hold power rarely forfeit it for such reasons. Jim Jones committed suicide because they were coming for him. KWIM?

You left off this Key paragraph from your post.

In economics, fascists oppose economic liberalism (as a bourgeois movement) and Marxism (as a proletarian movement) for being class-based movements.[16] Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that advocates resolving economic class conflict to secure national solidarity.[17] Fascists advocate: a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation; the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation or state; the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient; and autarky.[3] They are hostile to finance capitalism, plutocracy, the "power of money", and internationalist economics.[3]

I am assuming it was because it didn't actually support you and DID support what Dr. Paul said in the debate last night. I think that was rather dishonest on your part.

That does not support what Paul said. To claim that fascism means nothing more than their economic policy is idiotic, and yet that's what Oddball insisted. Even if it did mean purely an economic policy, that paragraph cannot be used to describe FM and FM.

Fascism is a nationalistic, repressive, system of governance. You have somehow COMPLETELY missed the key components of nationalism and repression, and distorted any government involvement in the private sector as being exactly the same as a state controlled economy. That's not due to dishonesty, it's due to ignorance.

 

[Katzndogz]

Iran believes the US will do nothing to stop them. Other than say "pretty-please". Then there is the stern (obama frowns) "pretty-please with sugar on top".

 

[LibertyForAll]

Ron Paul is no Teddy Roosevelt. TR was the first President to talk about national health care-Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die. Paul is the anti-TR.

Who makes this shit up? Did you think it up on your own?

Yes, I did. Tell me what you need to have explained.

You are clearly unfamiliar with Twelver theology. They believe that they do gain power by ushering in the Apocalypse.

I clearly am familiar with it, and also with the fundamentalist Christian equivalent. Those who hold power rarely forfeit it for such reasons. Jim Jones committed suicide because they were coming for him. KWIM?

You left off this Key paragraph from your post.

In economics, fascists oppose economic liberalism (as a bourgeois movement) and Marxism (as a proletarian movement) for being class-based movements.[16] Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that advocates resolving economic class conflict to secure national solidarity.[17] Fascists advocate: a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation; the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation or state; the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient; and autarky.[3] They are hostile to finance capitalism, plutocracy, the "power of money", and internationalist economics.[3]

I am assuming it was because it didn't actually support you and DID support what Dr. Paul said in the debate last night. I think that was rather dishonest on your part.

That does not support what Paul said. To claim that fascism means nothing more than their economic policy is idiotic, and yet that's what Oddball insisted. Even if it did mean purely an economic policy, that paragraph cannot be used to describe FM and FM.

Fascism is a nationalistic, repressive, system of governance. You have somehow COMPLETELY missed the key components of nationalism and repression, and distorted any government involvement in the private sector as being exactly the same as a state controlled economy. That's not due to dishonesty, it's due to ignorance.

Well in my opinion nationalism is rampant in this country. Just look at how anyone who disagrees with the next war on the agenda, is treated. Anyone who questions our involvement in Iraq or Iran is a traitor. This is not as prevalent now as it was back in 2002 but it is still there and was/is used to pass laws that restrict our freedoms in the name of security. The government is increasing their powers at the expense of the people and they have convinced the people that its a good idea. This, coupled with the fact that our representatives no longer represent our interests, qualifies as repression as far as I am concerned. Then add in the fact that most politicians are moderates now who basically agree that bigger government is great but just disagree on who should control it. So now we have this huge centrist party with two much smaller fringe parties called the Democrats and Republicans. The people who hold to their original party platform are becoming fewer and fewer. There doesn't have to be an "Official Party" for there to be fascism, there only needs to a meeting of the minds in ideological terms.

So we have government nationalizing failed businesses and interfering in the free market by picking favorites through regulation, grants and tax incentives.

We have repression in the form of a subtle erosion of our rights and a ruling elite that no longer represents our interest.

We have a large centrist majority in our government that pursues the same goals no matter which side is in office.

Our country has been at war for 70 years. These wars have been used as tools to erode our rights and galvanize support and unite us through the targeting of a common enemy.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head, I am sure that I and many others on this board could come up with a lot more examples.

Maybe our government is not completely fascist ...but I believe it is trending in that direction and we need to be very careful about who we choose to lead us now. If I remember right, Ron Paul said it was bordering on Fascism not that it was Fascist.

Anyone who is in favor of increasing governmental powers, war and government involvement in the economy and specifically who takes money from companies that have been nationalized is suspect.

 

[SAT2]

Iran believes the US will do nothing to stop them. Other than say "pretty-please". Then there is the stern (obama frowns) "pretty-please with sugar on top".

Why are you guys so gullible? Obama has ordered terrorists killed, has increased the forces in Afghanistan, has increased the use of drones, and has helped to kick the Libyan dictator out of office.

And yet you still recite what Rush and Roger tell you. You believe them over reality.

Well in my opinion nationalism is rampant in this country. Just look at how anyone who disagrees with the next war on the agenda, is treated. Anyone who questions our involvement in Iraq or Iran is a traitor. This is not as prevalent now as it was back in 2002 but it is still there and was/is used to pass laws that restrict our freedoms in the name of security. The government is increasing their powers at the expense of the people and they have convinced the people that its a good idea. This, coupled with the fact that our representatives no longer represent our interests, qualifies as repression as far as I am concerned. Then add in the fact that most politicians are moderates now who basically agree that bigger government is great but just disagree on who should control it. So now we have this huge centrist party with two much smaller fringe parties called the Democrats and Republicans. The people who hold to their original party platform are becoming fewer and fewer. There doesn't have to be an "Official Party" for there to be fascism, there only needs to a meeting of the minds in ideological terms.

So we have government nationalizing failed businesses and interfering in the free market by picking favorites through regulation, grants and tax incentives.

We have repression in the form of a subtle erosion of our rights and a ruling elite that no longer represents our interest.

We have a large centrist majority in our government that pursues the same goals no matter which side is in office.

Our country has been at war for 70 years. These wars have been used as tools to erode our rights and galvanize support and unite us through the targeting of a common enemy.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head, I am sure that I and many others on this board could come up with a lot more examples.

Maybe our government is not completely fascist ...but I believe it is trending in that direction and we need to be very careful about who we choose to lead us now. If I remember right, Ron Paul said it was bordering on Fascism not that it was Fascist.

Anyone who is in favor of increasing governmental powers, war and government involvement in the economy and specifically who takes money from companies that have been nationalized is suspect.

Paul's characterization of FM as fascism was silly.

His ideology is rigid and impractical. Governments can step in and stabilize the economy without being fascist. It's what governments do-they are an organizing force for shared goals.

 

[Oddball]

The only fool here is you, tovarich.....Go peddle your Marxist bullshit over at DU.

Wow, knowing what fascism means makes me a Marxist? That's a new one.

Fascism (play /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek to rejuvenate their nation based on commitment to the national community as an organic entity, in which individuals are bound together in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood.[3] To achieve this, fascists purge forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration.[3] Fascists advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through indoctrination, physical education, discipline and family policy (such as eugenics).[4][5] That state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the fascist movement, the government and other state institutions.[6] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition.[7]

Fascism promotes political violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[4][8] It views violence as a fact of life that is a necessary means to achieve human progress.[9] It exalts militarism as providing positive transformation in society and providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people's character and creating national comradeship through military service.[10] Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violent attacks on opponents or to overthrow a political system.[11]

Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tell me about all the violence with Fannie and Freddie.

You left off this Key paragraph from your post.

In economics, fascists oppose economic liberalism (as a bourgeois movement) and Marxism (as a proletarian movement) for being class-based movements.[16] Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that advocates resolving economic class conflict to secure national solidarity.[17] Fascists advocate: a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation; the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation or state; the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient; and autarky.[3] They are hostile to finance capitalism, plutocracy, the "power of money", and internationalist economics.[3]


I am assuming it was because it didn't actually support you and DID support what Dr. Paul said in the debate last night. I think that was rather dishonest on your part.

Dishonesty and denial is all socialists have left, as every flimsy pretext of their centrally planned Utopias comes crashing down in utter failure before their very eyes.

Par for the course.

 

[Political Junky]

Quote from post above:

"You left off this Key paragraph from your post.

In economics, fascists oppose economic liberalism (as a bourgeois movement) and Marxism (as a proletarian movement) for being class-based movements.[16] Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that advocates resolving economic class conflict to secure national solidarity.[17] Fascists advocate: a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation; the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation or state; the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient; and autarky.[3] They are hostile to finance capitalism, plutocracy, the "power of money", and internationalist economics.[3]"
>
Yes, Fascism is the opposite of Socialism/Communism.

 

[SAT2]

Dishonesty and denial is all socialists have left, as every flimsy pretext of their centrally planned Utopias comes crashing down in utter failure before their very eyes.

Par for the course.

Funny, that's exactly how I'd describe your behavior here. Dishonest avoidance.

 

[Paulie]

Gingrich you are so full of it.

You kissed up to Hillary and Pelosi and any Democrat you thought would make you a Washington Insider.

You're going to vote for him like a good little robot and you know it.

 

[dblack]

Ron Paul is no Teddy Roosevelt. TR was the first President to talk about national health care-Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die. Paul is the anti-TR.

Who makes this shit up? Did you think it up on your own?

Yes, I did. Tell me what you need to have explained.

Explain how "Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die" isn't a deliberate lie.

 

[Political Junky]

Who makes this shit up? Did you think it up on your own?

Yes, I did. Tell me what you need to have explained.

Explain how "Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die" isn't a deliberate lie.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irx_QXsJiao]Tea Party Crowd Cheers Letting Uninsured Die - YouTube[/ame]

 

[dblack]

Yes, I did. Tell me what you need to have explained.

Explain how "Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die" isn't a deliberate lie.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irx_QXsJiao]Tea Party Crowd Cheers Letting Uninsured Die - YouTube[/ame]

Exactly!...

The transcript of the relevant portion:

BLITZER: But Congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die?

PAUL: No.

 

[Political Junky]

Explain how "Ron Paul believes in letting sick people with treatable illnesses die" isn't a deliberate lie.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irx_QXsJiao]Tea Party Crowd Cheers Letting Uninsured Die - YouTube[/ame]

Exactly!...

The transcript of the relevant portion:

BLITZER: But Congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die?

PAUL: No.

What do you think the alternative is if the man has no insurance? Paul said one makes choices and must abide by them.

 

[dblack]

What do you think the alternative is if the man has no insurance? Paul said one makes choices and must abide by them.

There are endless alternatives. It's a dismal lack of imagination to assume that corporate insurance is the only possible way we can maintain our health. It's nice sales pitch for insurance salesmen, and corporate lobbyists, but it's a load of crap.

But this doesn't address the accusation. Paul, never once, has said society should just 'let them die'. The assertion that he has is demagoguery designed to scare idiots.