God needs a super-natural visit today

[PostmodernProph]

I think we're ready for a more sophisticated understanding of gods and religious faith. We need to admit that gods are constructs of networked human minds yet understand that such a realization doesn't diminish their power.

lol....so concluding they are only imagined doesn't diminish them?......sorry, not what I would rank as a "sophisticated understanding"....

 

[dblack]

I think we're ready for a more sophisticated understanding of gods and religious faith. We need to admit that gods are constructs of networked human minds yet understand that such a realization doesn't diminish their power.

lol....so concluding they are only imagined doesn't diminish them?......

Not at all. It makes them all the more wondrous.

To get an inkling of what I'm talking about, consider how amazing and magical the tool you're using right now would have seemed to the average person a thousand years ago. Yet it is 'only imagined'; it is "only" a construct of human intelligence. Does that diminish it?

 

[PostmodernProph]

I think we're ready for a more sophisticated understanding of gods and religious faith. We need to admit that gods are constructs of networked human minds yet understand that such a realization doesn't diminish their power.

lol....so concluding they are only imagined doesn't diminish them?......

Not at all. It makes them all the more wondrous.

To get an inkling of what I'm talking about, consider how amazing and magical the tool you're using right now would have seemed to the average person a thousand years ago. Yet it is 'only imagined'; it is "only" a construct of human intelligence. Does that diminish it?

obviously.....a computer I have only imagined would not work nearly as well as one built in a factory.....

 

[dblack]

lol....so concluding they are only imagined doesn't diminish them?......

Not at all. It makes them all the more wondrous.

To get an inkling of what I'm talking about, consider how amazing and magical the tool you're using right now would have seemed to the average person a thousand years ago. Yet it is 'only imagined'; it is "only" a construct of human intelligence. Does that diminish it?

obviously.....a computer I have only imagined would not work nearly as well as one built in a factory.....

And the software?

 

[MaryL]

Why is it, when god ignores you, it's part of her plan? When you suffer, it's god's will? Why does it seem like random meaningless chance, like when you roll dice? Why does it seem like religion is just an excuse for random chance? Because, that is just what it is. God doesn't play dice...or does she?

 

[DriftingSand]

Mankind isn't here by mistake. There's more to the story than what the naked eye can see. Power exists but we can't see it. Love exists but we can't see it. Intelligence exists but we can't see it. Feelings of all kinds exist but we can't see them. There's a lot more that we don't know than what we do know.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Not at all. It makes them all the more wondrous.

To get an inkling of what I'm talking about, consider how amazing and magical the tool you're using right now would have seemed to the average person a thousand years ago. Yet it is 'only imagined'; it is "only" a construct of human intelligence. Does that diminish it?

obviously.....a computer I have only imagined would not work nearly as well as one built in a factory.....

And the software?

oh sorry....I forgot to imagine software.....I'll stop at Best Buy and pick some up for you.....

 

[dblack]

obviously.....a computer I have only imagined would not work nearly as well as one built in a factory.....

And the software?

oh sorry....I forgot to imagine software.....I'll stop at Best Buy and pick some up for you.....

You don't have to. The point is that software has no physical component. It's simply patterns of information - a construct of the human mind, which is what I'm suggesting gods are.

 

[PostmodernProph]

and the point remains that an actual copy of Windows 7 works a lot better than an imaginary one....saying its only imaginary diminishes it......(I couldn't say the same about Windows 8.....in that instance the imaginary one still works better)........

 

[Hollie]

Mankind isn't here by mistake. There's more to the story than what the naked eye can see. Power exists but we can't see it. Love exists but we can't see it. Intelligence exists but we can't see it. Feelings of all kinds exist but we can't see them. There's a lot more that we don't know than what we do know.

Trembling in fear before superstition and myths - we can see it.

There is in fact no evidence of gods, as the holy books themselves declare-- as the arguments of theists declare: it is upon faith, not knowledge that your arguments reside. If faith is borne out as true, then it becomes knowledge and is no longer faith. Yours is theistic-grown nihilism. True, when we look to gods for replies we get a deafening silence, but when we look to existence we see the radioactive background noise that supports a big bang, we see clues from the past, and we are using reason and knowledge to solve the puzzles of reality, not clinging to ancient myths.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Mankind isn't here by mistake. There's more to the story than what the naked eye can see. Power exists but we can't see it. Love exists but we can't see it. Intelligence exists but we can't see it. Feelings of all kinds exist but we can't see them. There's a lot more that we don't know than what we do know.

Trembling in fear before superstition and myths - we can see it.

There is in fact no evidence of gods, as the holy books themselves declare-- as the arguments of theists declare: it is upon faith, not knowledge that your arguments reside. If faith is borne out as true, then it becomes knowledge and is no longer faith. Yours is theistic-grown nihilism. True, when we look to gods for replies we get a deafening silence, but when we look to existence we see the radioactive background noise that supports a big bang, we see clues from the past, and we are using reason and knowledge to solve the puzzles of reality, not clinging to ancient myths.

actually, there's more evidence for the existence of an intelligent designer than there is that a single celled organism has ever evolved into a multicelled organism......

 

[Hollie]

Mankind isn't here by mistake. There's more to the story than what the naked eye can see. Power exists but we can't see it. Love exists but we can't see it. Intelligence exists but we can't see it. Feelings of all kinds exist but we can't see them. There's a lot more that we don't know than what we do know.

Trembling in fear before superstition and myths - we can see it.

There is in fact no evidence of gods, as the holy books themselves declare-- as the arguments of theists declare: it is upon faith, not knowledge that your arguments reside. If faith is borne out as true, then it becomes knowledge and is no longer faith. Yours is theistic-grown nihilism. True, when we look to gods for replies we get a deafening silence, but when we look to existence we see the radioactive background noise that supports a big bang, we see clues from the past, and we are using reason and knowledge to solve the puzzles of reality, not clinging to ancient myths.

actually, there's more evidence for the existence of an intelligent designer than there is that a single celled organism has ever evolved into a multicelled organism......

Actually, that's just nonsense. There actually is a pathway for evolution of cells. There is no evidence for any of your gods. What evidence for magic and supernaturalism has ever been presented?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Trembling in fear before superstition and myths - we can see it.

There is in fact no evidence of gods, as the holy books themselves declare-- as the arguments of theists declare: it is upon faith, not knowledge that your arguments reside. If faith is borne out as true, then it becomes knowledge and is no longer faith. Yours is theistic-grown nihilism. True, when we look to gods for replies we get a deafening silence, but when we look to existence we see the radioactive background noise that supports a big bang, we see clues from the past, and we are using reason and knowledge to solve the puzzles of reality, not clinging to ancient myths.

actually, there's more evidence for the existence of an intelligent designer than there is that a single celled organism has ever evolved into a multicelled organism......

Actually, that's just nonsense. There actually is a pathway for evolution of cells. There is no evidence for any of your gods. What evidence for magic and supernaturalism has ever been presented?

you have an imaginary pathway which consists of a beginning (single celled organisms) and an ending (multicelled organisms) and nothing in between.....

 

[dblack]

and the point remains that an actual copy of Windows 7 works a lot better than an imaginary one....saying its only imaginary diminishes it......(I couldn't say the same about Windows 8.....in that instance the imaginary one still works better)........

You're confusing "imaginary" for "not real". They're not the same concept. Imaginary things are very real. They just don't have physical form. Think of a story, for example. A story doesn't depend on any specific physical form, and can 'exist' in any medium that can faithfully represent it. Computer programs are the same way. What I'm saying is that so are gods. So are human minds for that matter.

 

[PostmodernProph]

You're confusing "imaginary" for "not real". They're not the same concept. Imaginary things are very real. They just don't have physical form. Think of a story, for example. A story doesn't depend on any specific physical form, and can 'exist' in any medium that can faithfully represent it. Computer programs are the same way. What I'm saying is that so are gods. So are human minds for that matter.

lol....no, imaginary things are not real....someone might imagine something and then make it....before they make it, it is imaginary, after they make it, it is real.....something which is never made but exists would be real regardless of whether it is imagined and never made....

thus, turning a deity which existed and was never made into something only imagined and made would be a diminishment....

 

[dblack]

You're confusing "imaginary" for "not real". They're not the same concept. Imaginary things are very real. They just don't have physical form. Think of a story, for example. A story doesn't depend on any specific physical form, and can 'exist' in any medium that can faithfully represent it. Computer programs are the same way. What I'm saying is that so are gods. So are human minds for that matter.

lol....no, imaginary things are not real....someone might imagine something and then make it....before they make it, it is imaginary, after they make it, it is real.....something which is never made but exists would be real regardless of whether it is imagined and never made....

thus, turning a deity which existed and was never made into something only imagined and made would be a diminishment....

So, are thoughts 'real' by your estimation?

 

[PostmodernProph]

You're confusing "imaginary" for "not real". They're not the same concept. Imaginary things are very real. They just don't have physical form. Think of a story, for example. A story doesn't depend on any specific physical form, and can 'exist' in any medium that can faithfully represent it. Computer programs are the same way. What I'm saying is that so are gods. So are human minds for that matter.

lol....no, imaginary things are not real....someone might imagine something and then make it....before they make it, it is imaginary, after they make it, it is real.....something which is never made but exists would be real regardless of whether it is imagined and never made....

thus, turning a deity which existed and was never made into something only imagined and made would be a diminishment....

So, are thoughts 'real' by your estimation?

if thoughts were real I would be dead by now.....

no, what is imagined is not real until it is made....even a story is not a story until it is told.....my argument against you is not real until I type it and hit "submit reply".....

 

[dblack]

lol....no, imaginary things are not real....someone might imagine something and then make it....before they make it, it is imaginary, after they make it, it is real.....something which is never made but exists would be real regardless of whether it is imagined and never made....

thus, turning a deity which existed and was never made into something only imagined and made would be a diminishment....

So, are thoughts 'real' by your estimation?

if thoughts were real I would be dead by now.....

no, what is imagined is not real until it is made....even a story is not a story until it is told.....my argument against you is not real until I type it and hit "submit reply".....

Ok. Well, you seem fixated on the false dichotomy between 'real' and 'imaginary'. It's common to classify things that way when the concern is the physical existence of something, but clearly lots of things exists that aren't physical - so it's a limited viewpoint.

My point is that something doesn't need to have a specific physical existence to have a very real impact on the world. It merely needs to be represented somehow. To the extent that thoughts and ideas are represented (most commonly in the actions of people who possess them), they are quite real and have a tangible impact on the world.

I'm saying that gods are examples of a unique kind of thought or idea that, like a meme, transcends the individuals who share it and takes on an identity and existence of it's own. Gods literally 'live' in the minds of their followers, and impact the world through their actions.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Ok. Well, you seem fixated on the false dichotomy between 'real' and 'imaginary'. It's common to classify things that way when the concern is the physical existence of something, but clearly lots of things exists that aren't physical - so it's a limited viewpoint.

/shrugs....your error is assuming that something which is not physical is only imaginary.....likely there are things not yet imagined which are real.....it isn't imagining them which makes them real......there was a point in time when there no creatures with imagination....did the sun not exist then?.....

My point is that something doesn't need to have a specific physical existence to have a very real impact on the world. It merely needs to be represented somehow. To the extent that thoughts and ideas are represented (most commonly in the actions of people who possess them), they are quite real and have a tangible impact on the world.

could a deity which came into being because of the imagination of the created, create the universe?.......if not, such a deity is diminished compared to the one worshipped by Christianity.....

 

[dblack]

Ok. Well, you seem fixated on the false dichotomy between 'real' and 'imaginary'. It's common to classify things that way when the concern is the physical existence of something, but clearly lots of things exists that aren't physical - so it's a limited viewpoint.

/shrugs....your error is assuming that something which is not physical is only imaginary.....likely there are things not yet imagined which are real.....it isn't imagining them which makes them real......there was a point in time when there no creatures with imagination....did the sun not exist then?.....

My point is that something doesn't need to have a specific physical existence to have a very real impact on the world. It merely needs to be represented somehow. To the extent that thoughts and ideas are represented (most commonly in the actions of people who possess them), they are quite real and have a tangible impact on the world.

could a deity which came into being because of the imagination of the created, create the universe?.......if not, such a deity is diminished compared to the one worshipped by Christianity.....

Fair enough. If you're committed to the idea that God is a physical entity that exists outside us, then what I'm talking about probably wouldn't seem "real" to you. But I don't think it's any less amazing and powerful to conceive of God as an entity that lives in the 'distributed network' of all its followers. And it fits what we see of how God operates in the world. Don't you think it's possible that that's closer to the true nature of God than a literal interpretation of the mythology we've adopted?