God Is The Original Mathematician

[ding]

Don't you, forget about Him
Don't, don't, don't, don't
Don't you, forget about Him
Will you stand above Him?
Look His way, never loveHim

Will you recognize Him?
Call His name or walk on by

Don't you, forget about Him
Don't, don't, don't, don't
Don't you, forget about Him
As you walk on by
Will you call His name?
As you walk on by
Will you call His name?
When you walk away
Or will you walk away?
Will you walk on by?
Come on, call His name
Will you call His name?

 

[ding]

Bam!

 

[ding]

 

[Likkmee]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Every notice that the planets in our solar system is in pairs

Planet(S) X?

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

That's amazing. Did you write that?

"That's amazing. Did you write that?"__Buck

I did write that. Every word.

JAG

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

 

[Taz]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose? Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes little children if you use it?

 

[K9Buck]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

That's amazing. Did you write that?

"That's amazing. Did you write that?"__Buck

I did write that. Every word.

JAG

Great job!

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose? Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes little children if you use it?

"So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose?
Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes
little children if you use it?"___Taz

You have Free Will.
You can use your Free Will to made a decision.
What decision
The decision that you, a mere man, are going to choose to blame God for
the results of the sinful choices of mankind.

Lets see if you will blame God for the following:
A woman named Sally is pregnant.
Sally chooses to use drugs.
Sally is well aware that her continued use of drugs will harm her baby.
Sally make a Free Will decision to keep on using drugs.
When her baby is born, her baby has been seriously harmed by Sally's use of
drugs.

Sally's baby was born with serious permanent health issues because Sally
used her Free Will to CHOOSE. Sally chose to keep on using drugs.

This was 100% Sally's fault and not God's fault.

_______________

On Christianity it was sinful man that caused children to be born deformed,
and not God.

Generally men blame God for the suffering in the world because they
do not want to submit to the God that created them --- what they want
is to be their own god --- and they want nothing to do with the God that
created them and so they use The Problem Of Evil as an EXCUSE to refuse to
believe in God. This way it is THEY that can remain de facto their own god.

_____________________


Start quote.
As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good.

End quote.

Alvin Plantinga's free-will defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So?

So an Omnipotent God cannot do anything,
God can not make 2 + 2 = 7
God can not make a square circle.
God can not give man a Free Will and at the same time prevent
man from choosing to do evil.



JAG

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

That's amazing. Did you write that?

"That's amazing. Did you write that?"__Buck

I did write that. Every word.

JAG

Great job!

"Great job."__Buck

Thank you -- much appreciated.

JAG

 

[norwegen]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

 

[toobfreak]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.

If that is the biblical answer, I can understand why so many people doubt it or are skeptical of God and all. The world is NOT perfect, otherwise it would be heaven here on Earth, man is certainly not perfect, or we would be gods, and there obviously IS sickness, pain and death here.

Even the most saintly god-devoted persons die.

There are these things exactly because not that God is cruel or that God doesn't exist but exactly because material nature and our existence here on Earth is separate from God, this is NOT heaven, it is not perfect, things are temporary here, things are born, grow old and die. That is exactly the reason why we should be motivated to break out of the continuous cycle of the material bonding of birth and death and return to Him.

 

[Taz]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose? Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes little children if you use it?

"So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose?
Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes
little children if you use it?"___Taz

You have Free Will.
You can use your Free Will to made a decision.
What decision
The decision that you, a mere man, are going to choose to blame God for
the results of the sinful choices of mankind.

Lets see if you will blame God for the following:
A woman named Sally is pregnant.
Sally chooses to use drugs.
Sally is well aware that her continued use of drugs will harm her baby.
Sally make a Free Will decision to keep on using drugs.
When her baby is born, her baby has been seriously harmed by Sally's use of
drugs.

Sally's baby was born with serious permanent health issues because Sally
used her Free Will to CHOOSE. Sally chose to keep on using drugs.

This was 100% Sally's fault and not God's fault.

_______________

On Christianity it was sinful man that caused children to be born deformed,
and not God.

Generally men blame God for the suffering in the world because they
do not want to submit to the God that created them --- what they want
is to be their own god --- and they want nothing to do with the God that
created them and so they use The Problem Of Evil as an EXCUSE to refuse to
believe in God. This way it is THEY that can remain de facto their own god.

_____________________


Start quote.
As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good.

End quote.

Alvin Plantinga's free-will defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So?

So an Omnipotent God cannot do anything,
God can not make 2 + 2 = 7
God can not make a square circle.
God can not give man a Free Will and at the same time prevent
man from choosing to do evil.



JAG

So god makes deformed babies and then blames it on man. What a douche.

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose? Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes little children if you use it?

"So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose?
Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes
little children if you use it?"___Taz

You have Free Will.
You can use your Free Will to made a decision.
What decision
The decision that you, a mere man, are going to choose to blame God for
the results of the sinful choices of mankind.

Lets see if you will blame God for the following:
A woman named Sally is pregnant.
Sally chooses to use drugs.
Sally is well aware that her continued use of drugs will harm her baby.
Sally make a Free Will decision to keep on using drugs.
When her baby is born, her baby has been seriously harmed by Sally's use of
drugs.

Sally's baby was born with serious permanent health issues because Sally
used her Free Will to CHOOSE. Sally chose to keep on using drugs.

This was 100% Sally's fault and not God's fault.

_______________

On Christianity it was sinful man that caused children to be born deformed,
and not God.

Generally men blame God for the suffering in the world because they
do not want to submit to the God that created them --- what they want
is to be their own god --- and they want nothing to do with the God that
created them and so they use The Problem Of Evil as an EXCUSE to refuse to
believe in God. This way it is THEY that can remain de facto their own god.

_____________________


Start quote.
As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good.

End quote.

Alvin Plantinga's free-will defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So?

So an Omnipotent God cannot do anything,
God can not make 2 + 2 = 7
God can not make a square circle.
God can not give man a Free Will and at the same time prevent
man from choosing to do evil.



JAG

So god makes deformed babies and then blames it on man. What a douche.

"So god makes deformed babies and then blames it on man. What a douche.'___Taz
Incorrect.
____________

By the way, there are two kinds of men
{1} Those that have respect for the God that created them.
{2} Those that curse or badmouth the God that created them.

Here is a Biblical example of {2}
" People gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God
of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they
refused to repent of what they had done."Revelation 16:10-11

Here is a thought;
The man who is age 70 and lives to age 90 has a mere 240
months before he finds out if John 3:16's "perish" really
means perish.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His one
one and only Son that whoever believes on Him shall not perish
but have Eternal Life."
{1{ believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

``

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.

If that is the biblical answer, I can understand why so many people doubt it or are skeptical of God and all. The world is NOT perfect, otherwise it would be heaven here on Earth, man is certainly not perfect, or we would be gods, and there obviously IS sickness, pain and death here.

Even the most saintly god-devoted persons die.

There are these things exactly because not that God is cruel or that God doesn't exist but exactly because material nature and our existence here on Earth is separate from God, this is NOT heaven, it is not perfect, things are temporary here, things are born, grow old and die. That is exactly the reason why we should be motivated to break out of the continuous cycle of the material bonding of birth and death and return to Him.

My point was not that the world IS perfect' but that the world WAS perfect.
If we don't like the word "perfect" we can use the word Uncursed for the
world and the word Unfallen for mankind. Sin entered due to man's choosing
to sin and then the world became Cursed and men became Fallen -- otherwise
there is no need for a Savior to save us from sin. No Savior then no Christianity.

JAG

``

 

[ding]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose? Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes little children if you use it?

"So you're saying that god makes children deformed and suffering on purpose?
Because of some rather random rule where god gives out free will but punishes
little children if you use it?"___Taz

You have Free Will.
You can use your Free Will to made a decision.
What decision
The decision that you, a mere man, are going to choose to blame God for
the results of the sinful choices of mankind.

Lets see if you will blame God for the following:
A woman named Sally is pregnant.
Sally chooses to use drugs.
Sally is well aware that her continued use of drugs will harm her baby.
Sally make a Free Will decision to keep on using drugs.
When her baby is born, her baby has been seriously harmed by Sally's use of
drugs.

Sally's baby was born with serious permanent health issues because Sally
used her Free Will to CHOOSE. Sally chose to keep on using drugs.

This was 100% Sally's fault and not God's fault.

_______________

On Christianity it was sinful man that caused children to be born deformed,
and not God.

Generally men blame God for the suffering in the world because they
do not want to submit to the God that created them --- what they want
is to be their own god --- and they want nothing to do with the God that
created them and so they use The Problem Of Evil as an EXCUSE to refuse to
believe in God. This way it is THEY that can remain de facto their own god.

_____________________


Start quote.
As Plantinga summarized his defense:[14]

A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good.

End quote.

Alvin Plantinga's free-will defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So?

So an Omnipotent God cannot do anything,
God can not make 2 + 2 = 7
God can not make a square circle.
God can not give man a Free Will and at the same time prevent
man from choosing to do evil.



JAG

So god makes deformed babies and then blames it on man. What a douche.

He doesn't. You should go and ask your question to rylah . rylah believes that God gave man an evil inclination.

 

[norwegen]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

 

[Taz]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did. To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

 

[norwegen]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.