God and Free Will

[Taz]

I’ve suffered through several accidents, what you say is nonsense. You’re making it up as you go along. Just like dingbat.

Shrug. Then why did you ask? Just out of curiosity, did you accept pain medication?

You’re saying that without god, you can’t have a strong spirit, which is bs, I have a very strong spirit.
And yes, I took pain medication, still do, sometimes. Why?

No, I can assure you, you do NOT have a strong spirit. You have arrogance and hubris, which are not the same thing. One need only listen to you frantically trying to tear other people down while offering nothing of value to replace what you wish to take from them to see what sort of spirit you have.

I hate to break it to you, but you are the best advertisement there is for the very things you revile so much.

Geez, you must be the Queen of the Hyperbole, lol. I don't "revile" the concept of god, I'm not "frantically trying to" do anything but talk, and I'm not trying to"tear other people down", but merely confronting them on their beliefs, and you know, pretty much everyone here can handle it except you, so when you talk about a weak spirit... I'm simply trying to have a civil conversation with people who believe because I'm genuinely interested in the subject, because I can't get myself to believe in something without any proof, like some people here do.

 

[Meriweather]

So either god replaced pain medication, which is crazy, or god got you through pain when you weren't near pain medication? Which is also kinda douche, as your own person isn't strong enough, you need help from an invisible person to have you take the pain.

Wrong. Let's try this once more without trying to expand on what I actually said. We agree, I think, that strength of body comes from exercise or physical work. I said strength of spirit comes from prayer, meditation. Buddhists, I believe, meditate with no belief in God. I am not saying my prayers/meditation are better than Buddhists, I'm saying that prayer and meditation make for a stronger spirit. Just as I could exercise four hours, seven days a week without becoming the stronger than the strongest man, so could I pray four hours a day, seven days a week and not become the strongest spiritual person. Each of us have limitations in all we do.

A strong spirit, whether it comes from prayer to our God, or whether it comes from meditation, can strengthen the spirit of an individual. I believe in God. However, when I am suffering from a sore throat--or something more painful--I do not expect God to take away the pain. I do have expectations of myself and how I handle injury and illness. I am sure an atheist Buddhist might say something similar.

 

[Taz]

So either god replaced pain medication, which is crazy, or god got you through pain when you weren't near pain medication? Which is also kinda douche, as your own person isn't strong enough, you need help from an invisible person to have you take the pain.

Wrong. Let's try this once more without trying to expand on what I actually said. We agree, I think, that strength of body comes from exercise or physical work. I said strength of spirit comes from prayer, meditation. Buddhists, I believe, meditate with no belief in God. I am not saying my prayers/meditation are better than Buddhists, I'm saying that prayer and meditation make for a stronger spirit. Just as I could exercise four hours, seven days a week without becoming the stronger than the strongest man, so could I pray four hours a day, seven days a week and not become the strongest spiritual person. Each of us have limitations in all we do.

A strong spirit, whether it comes from prayer to our God, or whether it comes from meditation, can strengthen the spirit of an individual. I believe in God. However, when I am suffering from a sore throat--or something more painful--I do not expect God to take away the pain. I do have expectations of myself and how I handle injury and illness. I am sure an atheist Buddhist might say something similar.

So your saying that I can't have a strong spirit if I don't believe in a judgeful god? Um... no.

 

[Meriweather]

So your saying that I can't have a strong spirit if I don't believe in a judgeful god? Um... no.

Not what I said at all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So then it doesn't matter if you believe in god because bad things will happen to you anyways.

Correct. Bad things will happen. The question is not, Will you suffer? The question is, How will you suffer. And in the midst of suffering, who do we want to help us through it? (God is not a Genii, granting wishes. He's there for the long haul through reality.)

So if I have an accident, I’ll suffer differently if I believe or not?

Yup.

How? Can you explain?

Absolutely I can. The question is, "Will I waste my time bothering on someone who doesn't want to know the answer?"

 

[Cecilie1200]

How will the suffering be different?

Not the right question. I know two women who broke their hips. One was very active, the other sedentary. Who do you think was up and back to an active life--and who do you suppose chose bed and a wheelchair?

Suffering takes a toll on attitude, on the essential self/spirit. Likewise, if someone has a strong spiritual relationship with God and has developed a strong spirit, compared to someone who has not, who, attitude/spirit wise, is going to have an easier time?

I’ve suffered through several accidents, what you say is nonsense. You’re making it up as you go along. Just like dingbat.

So you're telling us that you got nothing positive from the experience and in no way were improved as a person by it?

SOMEONE here has nothing, but it's not Ding.

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I’ve suffered through several accidents, what you say is nonsense. You’re making it up as you go along. Just like dingbat.

Shrug. Then why did you ask? Just out of curiosity, did you accept pain medication?

You’re saying that without god, you can’t have a strong spirit, which is bs, I have a very strong spirit.
And yes, I took pain medication, still do, sometimes. Why?

No, I can assure you, you do NOT have a strong spirit. You have arrogance and hubris, which are not the same thing. One need only listen to you frantically trying to tear other people down while offering nothing of value to replace what you wish to take from them to see what sort of spirit you have.

I hate to break it to you, but you are the best advertisement there is for the very things you revile so much.

Geez, you must be the Queen of the Hyperbole, lol. I don't "revile" the concept of god, I'm not "frantically trying to" do anything but talk, and I'm not trying to"tear other people down", but merely confronting them on their beliefs, and you know, pretty much everyone here can handle it except you, so when you talk about a weak spirit... I'm simply trying to have a civil conversation with people who believe because I'm genuinely interested in the subject, because I can't get myself to believe in something without any proof, like some people here do.

Dude, I'm sitting right here, reading your posts. I know reviling when I see it, and there's no hyperbole involved. What you do or don't want to think about the bile you spew is irrelevant to me, just like all leftist atheist delusions are. And there's no part of spending this much time trying to argue people into giving up their beliefs that isn't frantic.

 

[Taz]

So then it doesn't matter if you believe in god because bad things will happen to you anyways.

Correct. Bad things will happen. The question is not, Will you suffer? The question is, How will you suffer. And in the midst of suffering, who do we want to help us through it? (God is not a Genii, granting wishes. He's there for the long haul through reality.)

So if I have an accident, I’ll suffer differently if I believe or not?

Yup.

How? Can you explain?

Absolutely I can. The question is, "Will I waste my time bothering on someone who doesn't want to know the answer?"

I'm curious, so you either have an answer or you don't, which is it?

 

[Taz]

How will the suffering be different?

Not the right question. I know two women who broke their hips. One was very active, the other sedentary. Who do you think was up and back to an active life--and who do you suppose chose bed and a wheelchair?

Suffering takes a toll on attitude, on the essential self/spirit. Likewise, if someone has a strong spiritual relationship with God and has developed a strong spirit, compared to someone who has not, who, attitude/spirit wise, is going to have an easier time?

I’ve suffered through several accidents, what you say is nonsense. You’re making it up as you go along. Just like dingbat.

So you're telling us that you got nothing positive from the experience and in no way were improved as a person by it?

SOMEONE here has nothing, but it's not Ding.

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

 

[hobelim]

Not the right question. I know two women who broke their hips. One was very active, the other sedentary. Who do you think was up and back to an active life--and who do you suppose chose bed and a wheelchair?

Suffering takes a toll on attitude, on the essential self/spirit. Likewise, if someone has a strong spiritual relationship with God and has developed a strong spirit, compared to someone who has not, who, attitude/spirit wise, is going to have an easier time?

I’ve suffered through several accidents, what you say is nonsense. You’re making it up as you go along. Just like dingbat.

So you're telling us that you got nothing positive from the experience and in no way were improved as a person by it?

SOMEONE here has nothing, but it's not Ding.

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

Yes.

As a baby did you have to know whats going on or believe in anything for your diapers to be changed?

From the very first day that you applied your mind to understand, you have been taken care of even if you have no awareness of it yet.

 

[Taz]

I’ve suffered through several accidents, what you say is nonsense. You’re making it up as you go along. Just like dingbat.

So you're telling us that you got nothing positive from the experience and in no way were improved as a person by it?

SOMEONE here has nothing, but it's not Ding.

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

Yes.

As a baby did you have to know whats going on or believe in anything for your diapers to be changed?

From the very first day that you applied your mind to understand, you have been taken care of even if you have no awareness of it yet.

So god is taking care of me anyways? How? By sending me to hell because I never believed in the Hide-and-Seek Champion?
And if he's taking care of me in a good way, then why believe? What difference would that make?

 

[hobelim]

So you're telling us that you got nothing positive from the experience and in no way were improved as a person by it?

SOMEONE here has nothing, but it's not Ding.

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

Yes.

As a baby did you have to know whats going on or believe in anything for your diapers to be changed?

From the very first day that you applied your mind to understand, you have been taken care of even if you have no awareness of it yet.

So god is taking care of me anyways? How? By sending me to hell because I never believed in the Hide-and-Seek Champion?
And if he's taking care of me in a good way, then why believe? What difference would that make?

Yes, God is taking care of you anyway. Think about the story of Abraham. God did not appear to him until after he began to reason and became an atheist and rejected everything he was taught to believe since birth was true.

And no, hell, the way the concept has been taught, does not exist.

Hell is not an afterlife punishment for unbelief in the ridiculous, it is a consequence for professing a belief in the ridiculous during this life..

see? you are not doing so terribly after all, even with a bum leg.

 

[Taz]

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

Yes.

As a baby did you have to know whats going on or believe in anything for your diapers to be changed?

From the very first day that you applied your mind to understand, you have been taken care of even if you have no awareness of it yet.

So god is taking care of me anyways? How? By sending me to hell because I never believed in the Hide-and-Seek Champion?
And if he's taking care of me in a good way, then why believe? What difference would that make?

Yes, God is taking care of you anyway. Think about the story of Abraham. God did not appear to him until after he began to reason and became an atheist and rejected everything he was taught to believe since birth was true.

And no, hell, the way the concept has been taught, does not exist.

Hell is not an afterlife punishment for unbelief in the ridiculous, it is a consequence for professing a belief in the ridiculous during this life..

see? you are not doing so terribly after all, even with a bum leg.

So if god is taking care of me anyways, why all the need to believe?

 

[hobelim]

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

Yes.

As a baby did you have to know whats going on or believe in anything for your diapers to be changed?

From the very first day that you applied your mind to understand, you have been taken care of even if you have no awareness of it yet.

So god is taking care of me anyways? How? By sending me to hell because I never believed in the Hide-and-Seek Champion?
And if he's taking care of me in a good way, then why believe? What difference would that make?

Yes, God is taking care of you anyway. Think about the story of Abraham. God did not appear to him until after he began to reason and became an atheist and rejected everything he was taught to believe since birth was true.

And no, hell, the way the concept has been taught, does not exist.

Hell is not an afterlife punishment for unbelief in the ridiculous, it is a consequence for professing a belief in the ridiculous during this life..

see? you are not doing so terribly after all, even with a bum leg.

So if god is taking care of me anyways, why all the need to believe?

Don't you already believe in what you can see with your own eyes ?

You need to believe in what you already know to be true and if you want to make the most out of your life, as messed up as you make it out to be, try to understand and then follow the instructions given in the divine commands so that your mind will become less confused and the associated distortions in thought and perception that cause you unspeakable emotional pain will leave you making you free to know the whole truth, what has always been right in front of your nose.

I am not someone telling you that you have to "just believe" in anything, remember?

Abraham didn't believe in any of the crap that was handed down to him from previous generations once he began to reason..

Heaven did not open up to Jesus until he too rejected and cleansed his mind from all the crap that was handed down to him.

Thats what Jesus meant by saying "If you were children of Abraham you would do as Abraham did."

Purify and refine your own mind and you too will see God. Then you will have no choice but to believe.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Correct. Bad things will happen. The question is not, Will you suffer? The question is, How will you suffer. And in the midst of suffering, who do we want to help us through it? (God is not a Genii, granting wishes. He's there for the long haul through reality.)

So if I have an accident, I’ll suffer differently if I believe or not?

Yup.

How? Can you explain?

Absolutely I can. The question is, "Will I waste my time bothering on someone who doesn't want to know the answer?"

I'm curious, so you either have an answer or you don't, which is it?

What was confusing about "Absolutely I can"? And if you find that confusing, how are you going to understand the answer? Again, why would I bother telling you?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not the right question. I know two women who broke their hips. One was very active, the other sedentary. Who do you think was up and back to an active life--and who do you suppose chose bed and a wheelchair?

Suffering takes a toll on attitude, on the essential self/spirit. Likewise, if someone has a strong spiritual relationship with God and has developed a strong spirit, compared to someone who has not, who, attitude/spirit wise, is going to have an easier time?

I’ve suffered through several accidents, what you say is nonsense. You’re making it up as you go along. Just like dingbat.

So you're telling us that you got nothing positive from the experience and in no way were improved as a person by it?

SOMEONE here has nothing, but it's not Ding.

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

You keep demonstrating why you know so little about these things: because even when you get the answer, you can't comprehend the words.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So you're telling us that you got nothing positive from the experience and in no way were improved as a person by it?

SOMEONE here has nothing, but it's not Ding.

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

Yes.

As a baby did you have to know whats going on or believe in anything for your diapers to be changed?

From the very first day that you applied your mind to understand, you have been taken care of even if you have no awareness of it yet.

So god is taking care of me anyways? How? By sending me to hell because I never believed in the Hide-and-Seek Champion?
And if he's taking care of me in a good way, then why believe? What difference would that make?

It's amazing how hard it is to learn something when you're so determined that you already know everything that you flatly refuse to listen to or understand the answers. And then you just turn around and ask the same ignorant question again.

 

[Taz]

So if I have an accident, I’ll suffer differently if I believe or not?

Yup.

How? Can you explain?

Absolutely I can. The question is, "Will I waste my time bothering on someone who doesn't want to know the answer?"

I'm curious, so you either have an answer or you don't, which is it?

What was confusing about "Absolutely I can"? And if you find that confusing, how are you going to understand the answer? Again, why would I bother telling you?

Because you're a Christian and you enjoy helping people? Anyways, what are you hiding?

 

[Taz]

I’ve suffered through several accidents, what you say is nonsense. You’re making it up as you go along. Just like dingbat.

So you're telling us that you got nothing positive from the experience and in no way were improved as a person by it?

SOMEONE here has nothing, but it's not Ding.

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

You keep demonstrating why you know so little about these things: because even when you get the answer, you can't comprehend the words.

Because you keep tip=toeing around the answer. It's all good, I can keep this up for a long time until I actually get an answer, if that's how you want it to go down.

 

[Taz]

If I learned something and was improved by the events (ok, probably), it had nothing to do with god, since I don't believe. Or does god's effect happen anyways whether you believe in it or not, like gravity?

How do YOU know it had nothing to do with God, assuming you have ever learned anything, which is not an assumption I'm prepared to concede at the moment?

And I never said it was "God's effect" per se. You wanted to know why bad things happen. Learning and growth as people would be one of the reasons. Just as bad things happen to everyone, opportunities to learn and grow also happen to everyone. Everyone is, after all, a creation of God.

So my question is: Does god have an effect on people even if they don't believe, kinda like gravity that'll still have an effect even if you think that the idea of gravity is crap.

Yes.

As a baby did you have to know whats going on or believe in anything for your diapers to be changed?

From the very first day that you applied your mind to understand, you have been taken care of even if you have no awareness of it yet.

So god is taking care of me anyways? How? By sending me to hell because I never believed in the Hide-and-Seek Champion?
And if he's taking care of me in a good way, then why believe? What difference would that make?

It's amazing how hard it is to learn something when you're so determined that you already know everything that you flatly refuse to listen to or understand the answers. And then you just turn around and ask the same ignorant question again.

If you can't answer the question, please do us all a favour, stfu.