Global Warming. Here's the thing.

[myself]

Not FOS. Dont bother trying. The power output DEPENDS ON angle to the sun.. Pure and simple. It's you who haven't given an ounce of thought or effort to research and understand. So everything said is COMPLETELY true.. And the fact that you're impugning I'm the idiot or James Hansen is an idiot means that's no discussion or educational value here wasting time with you..



How can you simply DODGE all the assertions I made about how CHILDISH this "map" thing was? Gave you 3 or 5 SOLID PROBLEMS with this fairy tale and you completely ignore them rather than TELLING ME WHY MY ASSERTIONS are wrong. That's not a discussion, more like talking to some religious zealot who isn't INTERESTED in defending their views.

Possible reasons for that reluctance to actually discuss are -

1) You can't. Either not ready to argue facts, definitions on the "beliefs" that you hold.

Or

2) You wont do it do because your beliefs are based more on FAITH in every bit crap you read on the Internet that FITS your religious defense of said beliefs..



I AM an electrical engineer.. With aux degrees in Biomedical Engineering and Signal/Image Processing.. THIS STUFF is child's play compared to my career..

You're not listening. You're not discussing. You're DREAMING mostly and repeating a whole bunch of crap that you've been SUPER SOLD on by skillful marketing of "alternatives"..

It's NOT 10 acres., You should stop embarrassing yourself and answer the assertions I MADE.. Do heavy plants run NIGHT SHIFTS??

Batteries or "capacitors" ARE NOT a solution to that. In fact, If the people of this country dont WAKE the FUCK UP -- a "battery centric" work-around for the FAILURES of wind and solar coupled with the MANDATES to push for "all electric vehicles" WILL LITERALLY BURY US in an ecological and economic armageddon..

I'd go into detail about how UNSUSTAINABLE and ENVIRONMENTALLY DESTRUCTIVE burying ourselves knee deep in Lithium batteries would be -- but this "dream" of yours is not allowing you to think critically in any manner.

I have seen solar panels that will automatically turn to face directly toward the sunlight. Though I myself don't think that doing so precisely towards the sun is all that necessary. Even light at a slight angle will work just as well. Next, the only thing I ever said is that solar panels work. You can either choose to believe it or not. And before you called James Hansen the godfather of global warming. Exactly when did he come up with this revelation. Because no doubt there were others who mentioned the problem before him. And we learned much more about the problem after him.

Next, there is one problem concerning solar panels that you never mentioned. That problem being that they work. Is that truth a little too inconvenient for you? And as I said before, Elon Musk thinks it could be done with a smaller area than the one I showed on a map of the U.S. And he is an accomplished engineer. Who are you compared to him. Nobody I would say. Call it a matter of "faith" if you want to. But the billions he has earned doing the engineering he does speaks volumes.

Next, we have an automobile parts manufacturing plant in my town. I would say that with the rooftop and parking lot combined it is over 10 acres. In a nearby town they have an automobile manufacturing plant. I would guess that the total land is well over 100 acres.

Next, batteries and capacitors are the way to go. But not the only way. Battery technology is improving all the time. And as with anything else, the more widespread their use becomes, their price is likely to drop. They also have super capacitors that can supplement the power of an electric car. And they say in some cases replace the batteries completely. Capacitors can also store energy as quickly as you can put electricity into them. They also last longer than rechargeable batteries. Then there are other ways to store excess energy as I've mentioned often enough. Using excess power to speed up a large perfectly balanced disk or heating sodium

Next, how in the hell can going with all electric cars bury us in either an ecological or economic armageddon. The use of fossil fuels is already heading us toward an ecological armageddon. We can't do any worse than that.

 

[myself]

Deleted 2 or 3 "all personal posts". You can resort to adult language in this forum, but every post MUST CONTAIN "specific topical content" to show you CARE about the specific topic.

Refrain from getting 100% personal or get warned and/or thread-banned.

Should I have said "so full of poop?" I take it that is what you were referring to.

 

[myself]

My concern would be that we would focus on low carbon emissions whilst carrying on polluting the environment with other nastier pathogens, the sea levels have been rising since Neolithic times

Yes, there are many problems. But right now rising CO2 and heating are about the biggest concerns. But if Biden keeps letting in third world lowlifes, there may not be anything worth saving anyway.

 

[myself]

Science isn't decided by popular opinion. Science is decided by data. And the data overwhelmingly shows that the earth is cooling. No one cooked up the data.

Ho wolly fukin shit!!! Far too often "science" is decided by money.

 

[myself]

You should install all the more expensive, less reliable energy you want.
Just don't spend any of my money on your idiocy.

Give me your money. DO IT NOW!!! Because any energy taken for free from sunlight is energy that won't end up costing most of the life on this planet its existence.

 

[myself]

I don't know exactly what the numbers mean, but the radiation released was 2.5 MCi. The same as the Fukushima nuclear disaster.

Not even close, you fucking liar.

As for assessing the human damage of TMI, there was a gag order put in place over the matter by a federal judge named Sylvia Rambo.

That was John Rambo.

View attachment 544278

He said you should stop being such a fag.

Dickwad. You can call the website I got the information from a liar. But you can't call me a liar. I'm just telling you what they said. Next, you still suck.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Dickwad. You can call the website I got the information from a liar. But you can't call me a liar. I'm just telling you what they said. Next, you still suck.

You can call the website I got the information from a liar.

Link to the website that said TMI and Fukushima released the same amount of radiation.

 

[elektra]

A voltmeter, a multimeter, whatever you want to call it. A device for testing the voltage and amperage of a battery or anything else involving electricity flowing from one point to another through a wire. Solar panels create electricity. Electricity can be measured. Also, they do put out more electricity depending on the load. But what in the hell does load have to do with anything. The whole point that you flacel and toddster keep harping on is that solar panels can't put out enough load to power the U.S.

The load is the USA and all it's industry, housing, every light, everything that uses electricity. That is a tremendous amount of power. Power measured in wattage, which is voltage times current. Setting a solar panel in the sun, hooking up a multimeter with no load will show voltage but no amperage. Hook up one light, that uses a 100 watts, the light will draw the power it needs, and you will be able to measure that power. But, the solar panel may be able to provide a 1000 watts.

It really is a tiny amount of power each solar panel can supply. If you ever get the chance to look at a panel, the cord coming from it is about as big as the cord on a lamp.

Yet, you can connect tens of thousands together to create more power. And in doing so, connecting that power to the grid, which was already supplying us enough power, you have to take power away or the solar panels will never be used. So, now you have solar panels supplying the load but only while the sun is shining.

Can industry wait until the sun shines, to start producing? And at that, we only have a few hours that the sun can provide electricity. So, where do we get the power until the sun shines? The answer that does not help us today is batteries? But that assumes Solar can meet the entire demand of industry and at the same time provide the power to the batteries?

We can imagine or dream that solar and batteries can do this, but they can not. Then of course, as soon as the sun starts to go down the current drops dramatically, which creates a drop across the grid. Voltage spikes, current spikes, varying frequency. It gets pretty technical and complicated. Basically intermittent power causes chaos on the grid.

Now we have engineers that monitor the grid, turning on and off power, trying to keep the whole thing under control. People we did not need in the past, equipment we did not need in the past, and this is only the beginning.

The goal of solar will be to charge batteries and then sell power from a constant source that is not interrupted by clouds and rain or the night.

The cost, only a trillion dollars a year for the next 50 years. Of course with the government, things always cost more than stated and they take longer. So we have proposed to do something that has never been done to replace a system that is relatively cheap, inexpensive, and efficient.

So far solar is proven, not to work, not able to do what is dreamed. Can it be fixed for an extreme price, we do not know so everything is a grand experiment with us footing the bill, and that bill may be paid with more than dollars. It may be paid with people losing power during the winter, or not being able to afford the power in winter. The consequences of that as seen in the past, is they die in the cold.

In england, they are shutting down factories because there is no wind or little wind blowing to supply the wind turbines. Could be food shortages, but I doubt that, just scare tactics in the newspapers, perhaps. But the fact is Green energy failed in England and across Europe and the price of energy, not just electricity, is sky rocketing.

I dont expect to change you. I dont expect to change any of the veteran posters. But, if you read my posts, all my posts, you will see that I have answered crick, old crock, and just about everyone else who supports green energy. I have not only answered but I have linked to in depth scholarly articles.

But it all comes down to common sense.

Common sense. I saw the original wind turbines in California, tens of thousands 70' high. The company that installed them went bankrupt no sooner than they were installed. They covered miles of land. It was millions of tons of natural resources and the power they supplied was insignificant. Long story short, those wind turbines were replaced by the next generation. The scientific answer to the lack of power of the first generation, make them bigger? Millions of tons of natural resources and again there was literally, no power to speak of. California imported more power, year after year. And, Green energy company after green energy company went bankrupt. And once again, they tore down the 2nd generation turbines and replaced them with the 3rd generation. Are they on the 4th generation yet.

Common sense, how do you build something so big, and so many, that they are literally thousands of times larger than what is physically small in comparison, a nuclear power plant, and yet those thousands of turbines and millions of solar panels still do not equal the power of a nuclear power plant. How do you build all that and not see that you are wasting natural resources and getting too little in return.

Every human know needs to destroy ten square miles of earth to supply the power they will need in their life? Every human will know need a million tons of natural resources?

Common sense, you cant build the largest industry in the world, which is what green energy will have to become, you can not make the largest industry in the world, which provides a tiny amount of power, yet uses more resources than everything else, and reduce co2 or any kind of pollution.

Green energy is a scam, I feel I can not articulate the huge waste, the amount of material, versus the little return we get. I can not articulate that as I wish. But it is true, you use more to get less. They claim it is clean, but they must hide the fact that the largest heavy industry in the world will be created, spewing more pollution than ever created before, to make the "clean" energy. That industry includes mining, drilling for oil, the chemical industry, manufacturing, etc., etc..

 

[elektra]

And, everything anyone wants to build will be built using oil. Of course what you build in the future will demand more oil. So you propose to increase the use of oil. Not save or preserve the oil. You must use all the oil to build a battery you will throw away in a few years.

You will destroy the earth trying to save the earth?

 

[Crick]

And, everything anyone wants to build will be built using oil. Of course what you build in the future will demand more oil. So you propose to increase the use of oil. Not save or preserve the oil. You must use all the oil to build a battery you will throw away in a few years.

You will destroy the earth trying to save the earth?

It has been true for decades that petroleum is too valuable as a material resource to burn it for fuel. I have no problem with turning oil into durable goods, It's a far better use than combusting it and throwing the exhaust into the air.

 

[elektra]

It has been true for decades that petroleum is too valuable as a material resource to burn it for fuel. I have no problem with turning oil into durable goods, It's a far better use than combusting it and throwing the exhaust into the air.

You have no problem turning oil into a wind turbines or solar panel that will last less than 10 years? And you have no problem massively increasing the amount we use while getting a very small return? And to turn it into goods as you state we must still burn it.

Your thought is nothing more than your imagination incorrectly believing you are utilizing oil efficiently when in fact you are wasting oil and polluting the earth.

 

[ding]

Ho wolly fukin shit!!! Far too often "science" is decided by money.

You mean like carbon taxes?

 

[elektra]

H

Really depends where you live and how well you maintain them.. If you live in a hail prone region, they could be dead in 5 to 10 years. A place with lots of ice or blowing sand -- maybe 8 to 15 years.

If you keep them from debris, dust, and wash them regularly to remove soot, mold, algae they CAN "last" 25 years. But their output will be about 75% of their RATED maximum by that time..

Home use or on industrial scale? Big difference in use.

 

[flacaltenn]

H
Home use or on industrial scale? Big difference in use.

On industrial scale, they might last the 25 years because of better maintenance and because they MIGHT be on gimbals that can park them at a "safe angle" from storms. Not a majority tho are on motorized trackers.. I think home installations can get beat to hell quicker and receive less maintenance. But I dont have any recollection of anything I read on this..

 

[elektra]

On industrial scale, they might last the 25 years because of better maintenance and because they MIGHT be on gimbals that can park them at a "safe angle" from storms. Not a majority tho are on motorized trackers.. I think home installations can get beat to hell quicker and receive less maintenance. But I dont have any recollection of anything I read on this..

The heavier the load, and the hotter they get reduces their life. If the industry states 25 years you can bet they over estimate by 100%, at the least.

 

[Crick]

And I can safely bet that any figure you give us is at least as wrong in the opposite direction.

 

[flacaltenn]

It has been true for decades that petroleum is too valuable as a material resource to burn it for fuel. I have no problem with turning oil into durable goods, It's a far better use than combusting it and throwing the exhaust into the air.

You mean too valuable like growing CORN just to burn it up as ethanol? Wasn't THAT supposed to save the planet something? All it did was make livestock lives more miserable and raise the price of a lot of food and DESTROY every small gas engine I have in my yard shed..

Electricity has NOTHING to do with oil. And that's where the main GW "remediation" effort has been. Letting the Green Weenies design a battery centric EVERYTHING in our energy future adds not ONE WATT to the grid. But we'll kill the earth and maybe ourselves TRYING to salvage wind/solar with GIGATONS of batteries in transportation, and the grid..

 

[elektra]

And I can safely bet that any figure you give us is at least as wrong in the opposite direction.

The only thing you can safely bet on is if you keep your mouth shut nobody will have anything to laugh at.

 

[myself]

You can call the website I got the information from a liar.

Link to the website that said TMI and Fukushima released the same amount of radiation.

I can't find it any more. But there is no denying that Fukushima was worse than TMI. A couple containment buildings blew up at Fukushima. The containment building at TMI didn't. But it did still release some radiation. And the core there did partially melt down.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I can't find it any more. But there is no denying that Fukushima was worse than TMI. A couple containment buildings blew up at Fukushima. The containment building at TMI didn't. But it did still release some radiation. And the core there did partially melt down.

I can't find it any more.

Obviously.