PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
feel free to go to bed.....you can stop by tomorrow and explain what you meant.....
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Girl suspended for saying ‘bless you’ at school
- Thread starter Sunni Man
- Start date
actually I knew that.....doesn't really matter since BODECEA was the one who said it....first of all, I think pretty much everyone here except you realizes that when he said "Because school girls never lie.....right?" he was insinuating that she was lying.....I realize you believe differently.....but then you're never wrong.....right?....But no, poster A suggesting poster B believes a high school girl is incapable of lying --- which addresses that poster's argument -- is in no way the same thing as saying "the girl is a liar" -- which addresses the student. We make those distinctions for a reason. We are in touch with our rhetorical opponent; we are not in touch with the student.
In full then:
How 'bout the distinction between saying "girl says she was suspended for saying 'bless you'" and "girl was suspended for saying 'bless you'"?
Your witness, counselor.
First of all the poster Jeremiah is a she. I know that's not readily obvious but just for clarity.
Objection sustained. You got me
See? I'm not always right, Jeremiah is the poster to whom Bo was replying.But you did address her, whichever her it was, as "he". So there.
well, yeah.....it does..... its sort of hard to think that "and school girls never lie......right?" is anything except sarcasm.....But no, that's not what that sentence insinuates
It is sarcasm, sure; but being sarcasm doesn't transmogrify what the point is. The two are, to use a phrase you attempted, apples and oranges. Not mutually exclusive. The comment is on Jeremiah's argument. You can make a comment on somebody's argument with or without sarcasm, just as you can use sarcasm without commenting on Jeremiah's argument. They have nothing to do with each other.
what does journalism have to do with it......the girl SAID she was suspended for saying "bless you".....she's not a journalist, she's the subject......The sentence,
"Girl says she was suspended for saying 'bless you''"
-- is a report of an unproven allegation. The only statement of fact is that the girl made the statement. Which is true, she did. The verb is says. There is no dispute that she said that. Whether that's actually what happened is a whole different can o' worms.
That's why the first one is a non sequitur. It does not follow. And to return to my original point, in journalism that's unethical.
Surely you understand "unethical"?
As I just bolded for the hard-of-reading, that was my original point about why this thread and the link that feeds it with rhetorical pus, is bullshit. I thought maybe the concept of "unethical" might ring a bell. To an attorney.
I have great sympathy for your clients btw.
Q What's the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?
A One's a slimy, bottom-dwelling, scum sucking scavenger; the other is a fish.
We're eating into baseball time. Court will resume .... later. Dress in something more than... briefs.
PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
sorry, but we weren't discussing your original premise.....we were discussing the unavoidable fact that her statement is evidence.....actually I knew that.....doesn't really matter since BODECEA was the one who said it....first of all, I think pretty much everyone here except you realizes that when he said "Because school girls never lie.....right?" he was insinuating that she was lying.....I realize you believe differently.....but then you're never wrong.....right?....But no, poster A suggesting poster B believes a high school girl is incapable of lying --- which addresses that poster's argument -- is in no way the same thing as saying "the girl is a liar" -- which addresses the student. We make those distinctions for a reason. We are in touch with our rhetorical opponent; we are not in touch with the student.
In full then:
How 'bout the distinction between saying "girl says she was suspended for saying 'bless you'" and "girl was suspended for saying 'bless you'"?
Your witness, counselor.
First of all the poster Jeremiah is a she. I know that's not readily obvious but just for clarity.
Objection sustained. You got me
But you did address her, whichever her it was, as "he". So there.
well, yeah.....it does..... its sort of hard to think that "and school girls never lie......right?" is anything except sarcasm.....But no, that's not what that sentence insinuates
It is sarcasm, sure; but being sarcasm doesn't transmogrify what the point is. The two are, to use a phrase you attempted, apples and oranges. Not mutually exclusive. The comment is on Jeremiah's argument. You can make a comment on somebody's argument with or without sarcasm, just as you can use sarcasm without commenting on Jeremiah's argument. They have nothing to do with each other.
what does journalism have to do with it......the girl SAID she was suspended for saying "bless you".....she's not a journalist, she's the subject......The sentence,
"Girl says she was suspended for saying 'bless you''"
-- is a report of an unproven allegation. The only statement of fact is that the girl made the statement. Which is true, she did. The verb is says. There is no dispute that she said that. Whether that's actually what happened is a whole different can o' worms.
That's why the first one is a non sequitur. It does not follow. And to return to my original point, in journalism that's unethical.
Surely you understand "unethical"?
As I just bolded for the hard-of-reading, that was my original point about why this thread and the link that feeds it with rhetorical pus, is bullshit. I thought maybe the concept of "unethical" might ring a bell. To an attorney.
I have great sympathy for your clients btw.
Q What's the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?
A One's a slimy, bottom-dwelling, scum sucking scavenger; the other is a fish.
We're eating into baseball time. Court will resume .... later. Dress in something more than... briefs.
and you shouldn't have sympathy for my clients.....as my discussion with you has shown, I'm quite good at it.......
sorry, but we weren't discussing your original premise.....we were discussing the unavoidable fact that her statement is evidence.....actually I knew that.....doesn't really matter since BODECEA was the one who said it....first of all, I think pretty much everyone here except you realizes that when he said "Because school girls never lie.....right?" he was insinuating that she was lying.....I realize you believe differently.....but then you're never wrong.....right?....But no, poster A suggesting poster B believes a high school girl is incapable of lying --- which addresses that poster's argument -- is in no way the same thing as saying "the girl is a liar" -- which addresses the student. We make those distinctions for a reason. We are in touch with our rhetorical opponent; we are not in touch with the student.
In full then:
How 'bout the distinction between saying "girl says she was suspended for saying 'bless you'" and "girl was suspended for saying 'bless you'"?
Your witness, counselor.
First of all the poster Jeremiah is a she. I know that's not readily obvious but just for clarity.
Objection sustained. You got me
But you did address her, whichever her it was, as "he". So there.
well, yeah.....it does..... its sort of hard to think that "and school girls never lie......right?" is anything except sarcasm.....But no, that's not what that sentence insinuates
It is sarcasm, sure; but being sarcasm doesn't transmogrify what the point is. The two are, to use a phrase you attempted, apples and oranges. Not mutually exclusive. The comment is on Jeremiah's argument. You can make a comment on somebody's argument with or without sarcasm, just as you can use sarcasm without commenting on Jeremiah's argument. They have nothing to do with each other.
what does journalism have to do with it......the girl SAID she was suspended for saying "bless you".....she's not a journalist, she's the subject......The sentence,
"Girl says she was suspended for saying 'bless you''"
-- is a report of an unproven allegation. The only statement of fact is that the girl made the statement. Which is true, she did. The verb is says. There is no dispute that she said that. Whether that's actually what happened is a whole different can o' worms.
That's why the first one is a non sequitur. It does not follow. And to return to my original point, in journalism that's unethical.
Surely you understand "unethical"?
As I just bolded for the hard-of-reading, that was my original point about why this thread and the link that feeds it with rhetorical pus, is bullshit. I thought maybe the concept of "unethical" might ring a bell. To an attorney.
I have great sympathy for your clients btw.
Q What's the difference between a lawyer and a catfish?
A One's a slimy, bottom-dwelling, scum sucking scavenger; the other is a fish.
We're eating into baseball time. Court will resume .... later. Dress in something more than... briefs.
and you shouldn't have sympathy for my clients.....as my discussion with you has shown, I'm quite good at it.......
I don't think anyone would agree that's what your posts have shown, no. Matter of fact if this is a sample of what passes for good legal argument then clearly I'm in the wrong business. For a starter, you addressed none of my points here, except to obfuscate about what the subtopic was. It was neither journalism nor evidence; it was your reading comprehension, or should I say lack thereof, wherein you imagine a poster's comment about somebody's argument is calling a third party a "liar". Which as I've amply demonstrated, it isn't.
Case dismissed.
Esmeralda
Diamond Member
The reason people say it is because in earlier times, getting a cold could result in death, so people said bless you, meaning God bless you. They were hoping you didn't die.I would wager that the majority of people who say 'Bless You' after someone sneezes don't say it for religious reasons. I say it and I am not a believer that the soul is escaping or whatever shit reason it is.
Esmeralda
Diamond Member
It has nothing to do with being PC or anti-religious, or anti-Christian; it has to do with classroom control.A young girl in Tennessee says she was suspended after breaking a class rule of saying “bless you” after a classmate sneezed.
When Dyer County High School senior Kendra Turner said bless you, she says her teacher told her that was for church.
Turner feels her teacher was taking issue for her religion. When she stood up for herself, Turner says she was told to go to the administrator’s office. She was later placed in in-school suspension for the rest of that class period.
Her pastor Rev. Becky Winegardner says they had just talked about how to stand up for their faith last week.
“There were several students that were talking about this particular faculty member there that was very demeaning to them in regards to their faith,” Winegardner said.
Students sent WMC a photo of the teacher’s white board that lists “bless you” and other expressions that are banned as part of class rules.
Girl suspended for saying ‘bless you’ at school | WGN-TV
The reason people say it is because in earlier times, getting a cold could result in death, so people said bless you, meaning God bless you. They were hoping you didn't die.I would wager that the majority of people who say 'Bless You' after someone sneezes don't say it for religious reasons. I say it and I am not a believer that the soul is escaping or whatever shit reason it is.
Oh okay. Interesting.
Delta4Embassy
Gold Member
I would wager that the majority of people who say 'Bless You' after someone sneezes don't say it for religious reasons. I say it and I am not a believer that the soul is escaping or whatever shit reason it is.
Correct. I myself say it just to make somoene feel good, though usually only after a really impressive series of sneezes. Last time I did was in the hallway here and the echo made it kinda hard to ignore so felt like I should say it.
Guy smiled and said thanks.
Esmeralda
Diamond Member
I have spent a lot of time in non-Christian countries where people are speaking English and they say 'bless you' when someone sneezes. It is sort of like 'OK.' It's become an international phrase that is automatic and simply means wishing the sneezer well. Has no religious basis for the vast majority of people who use the phrase, and in the classrom depicted in the OP, it isn't a religious issue at all. The girl who is making an issue of it is doing so as a political agenda, that's obvious.I would wager that the majority of people who say 'Bless You' after someone sneezes don't say it for religious reasons. I say it and I am not a believer that the soul is escaping or whatever shit reason it is.
Correct. I myself say it just to make somoene feel good, though usually only after a really impressive series of sneezes. Last time I did was in the hallway here and the echo made it kinda hard to ignore so felt like I should say it.
PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
one, I do not care if you consider it journalism....I have been addressing what the girl said, which was not intended to be journalism.....thus, there is no reason for her to conform to your rules of ethics for journalism......I don't think anyone would agree that's what your posts have shown, no. Matter of fact if this is a sample of what passes for good legal argument then clearly I'm in the wrong business. For a starter, you addressed none of my points here, except to obfuscate about what the subtopic was. It was neither journalism nor evidence; it was your reading comprehension, or should I say lack thereof, wherein you imagine a poster's comment about somebody's argument is calling a third party a "liar". Which as I've amply demonstrated, it isn't.
Case dismissed.
two, the first hand statement of an eye witness is obviously evidence...
three, we both realize that he was implying she was lying.....you want to deny that either because you want to look silly or think it will somehow grant you opportunity of claiming success in this discussion......
I would wager that the majority of people who say 'Bless You' after someone sneezes don't say it for religious reasons. I say it and I am not a believer that the soul is escaping or whatever shit reason it is.
Of course they don't. That's why the agenda of the media (including the OP here and the teenager herself) trying to stretch this into a religious issue is so transparent. It was already obvious from the teacher's whiteboard of gadfly infractions that "religion" was never the issue in the first place and trying to stretch it into one just reeks. Even if we could manage to stretch it into a religious custom it's would still have nothing to do with Christianism. Hell, it's got nothing to do with theism- she didn't even mention "God".
That's why "Turner feels her teacher was taking issue for her religion" is complete contrived bullshit. You could make that kind of case for the word "goodbye", which is ultimately derived from "God be with you". The depths some people will go to just to achieve martyrdom...
The reason people say it is because in earlier times, getting a cold could result in death, so people said bless you, meaning God bless you. They were hoping you didn't die.I would wager that the majority of people who say 'Bless You' after someone sneezes don't say it for religious reasons. I say it and I am not a believer that the soul is escaping or whatever shit reason it is.
Oh okay. Interesting.
True, that's why the other phrase we use is the German gesundheit, which literally is a wish for "health". Same meaning.
- Banned
- #194
This story is such total horse shit. The reason a teacher would ban saying bless you when someone sneezes is because kids use it as a way to disrupt class. A kid will sneeze, then the whole class, one after another will say bless you, in order to disrupt the class. Then when they are through, another kid will sneeze and the whole thing is repeated. It is done to disrupt class, has nothing to do with the kids being religious or wiith religion. The student was taken out of class because she was disruptive and kept out of the class for the remainder of that period for the same reason. She was never 'suspended,' but simply kept out of a class she was disrupting. This is all about kids disrupting class. End of. All of you who are outraged are enabling kids to disrupt their classes and you are being very stupid into the bargain.A young girl in Tennessee says she was suspended after breaking a class rule of saying “bless you” after a classmate sneezed.
When Dyer County High School senior Kendra Turner said bless you, she says her teacher told her that was for church.
Turner feels her teacher was taking issue for her religion. When she stood up for herself, Turner says she was told to go to the administrator’s office. She was later placed in in-school suspension for the rest of that class period.
Her pastor Rev. Becky Winegardner says they had just talked about how to stand up for their faith last week.
“There were several students that were talking about this particular faculty member there that was very demeaning to them in regards to their faith,” Winegardner said.
Students sent WMC a photo of the teacher’s white board that lists “bless you” and other expressions that are banned as part of class rules.
Girl suspended for saying ‘bless you’ at school | WGN-TV
The religious lunatics will cling to an story to claim persecution. real nut ballsi
one, I do not care if you consider it journalism....I have been addressing what the girl said, which was not intended to be journalism.....thus, there is no reason for her to conform to your rules of ethics for journalism......I don't think anyone would agree that's what your posts have shown, no. Matter of fact if this is a sample of what passes for good legal argument then clearly I'm in the wrong business. For a starter, you addressed none of my points here, except to obfuscate about what the subtopic was. It was neither journalism nor evidence; it was your reading comprehension, or should I say lack thereof, wherein you imagine a poster's comment about somebody's argument is calling a third party a "liar". Which as I've amply demonstrated, it isn't.
Case dismissed.
two, the first hand statement of an eye witness is obviously evidence...
three, we both realize that he was implying she was lying.....you want to deny that either because you want to look silly or think it will somehow grant you opportunity of claiming success in this discussion......
I really don't know how you navigate through a day in court. Seriously, I doubt you're an attorney at all since you can't seem to think from point A to point B. Firstly, nobody ever said, implied, suggested or in any way indicated this student is or is trying to be a journalist. My first comment in this thread was on the story itself and why it's contrived bullshit -- bad and unethical journalism. That's completely independent of the student. What the student's actual motivations were is a subsequent step in all of this, for the purpose of fleshing out the first step.
As to the poster you have reverted to being male, even after claiming to know she's female, you continue to be an army of one pretending her words mean something they don't. This is the core of denialism - lying to yourself about what words on a page mean even after they've been explained to you even by the poster herself. Nobody's buying your illogic.
Whether the girl is "lying" (about what?) is irrelevant. It's the article headline and the title of the OP that are lying. Which brings us back, who knew, to journalism. I rest my case.
Delta4Embassy
Gold Member
This made me laugh thinking, "What's so bad about saying...?"
Latest: Girl suspended for saying
Pogo, Aug 23, 2014 at 11:16 AM
Latest: Girl suspended for saying
Pogo, Aug 23, 2014 at 11:16 AM
I have spent a lot of time in non-Christian countries where people are speaking English and they say 'bless you' when someone sneezes. It is sort of like 'OK.' It's become an international phrase that is automatic and simply means wishing the sneezer well. Has no religious basis for the vast majority of people who use the phrase, and in the classrom depicted in the OP, it isn't a religious issue at all. The girl who is making an issue of it is doing so as a political agenda, that's obvious.I would wager that the majority of people who say 'Bless You' after someone sneezes don't say it for religious reasons. I say it and I am not a believer that the soul is escaping or whatever shit reason it is.
Correct. I myself say it just to make somoene feel good, though usually only after a really impressive series of sneezes. Last time I did was in the hallway here and the echo made it kinda hard to ignore so felt like I should say it.
And it's a very very common tactic for schoolroom disruption pulled by bored students. It's obvious from the teacher's list of seemingly random words that she had assembled terms the kids had been using to break class concentration -- why else would a term like "hang out" be on it? Obviously there had been a tag-team tactic of one student faking a sneeze and another calling out "bless you" from across the room (the school says Kendra Turner yelled it across the room in this case). What the actual term is is irrelevant -- what's going on is a psychological challenge to authority. The term, whichever is used, is just the vehicle to that. Anyone who can remember their own school daze can relate to this -- if they''re honest. It's a psychological ploy to undermine the authority of a teacher whose hand feels a little too heavy, and/or a tension breaker. It's a common occurrence that goes on every day in every school in every city, town, village and hamlet. And it's got jack-squat zero to do with any kind of religion.
Verbal communication is far more than the words it contains. Tone of voice, inflection, loudness (all those things that don't show up on this kind of page), sarcasm, etc, can be and are employed universally to convey messages that may be entirely different from the literal content. That's what the denialists pretending this is a "story" ignore, especially given the description that the girl yelled across the room. The message seems to have been not in the words but in the delivery. Then we're gonna back up and pretend it was about the words.
Just to think it through, it could even be that "bless you" had been planted in that class in the past as a pretext to set up this very "event" in the future.I recall a social studies teacher I had who was hung up on the word actually. He would actually pepper his sentences with it, actually. So one day we teamed up and tallied up the number of times he used the word that day and presented it to him when class was over. He didn't know what to say actually, but he wasn't amused.
Last edited:
Delta4Embassy
Gold Member
Only time I disrupted class was after a substitute threatened to put us all on the chalkboard for talking out of turn (name on the board thing) and I said "She can't put us all on the board." And she said something to the effect of "Oh yes I can."
It has nothing to do with being PC or anti-religious, or anti-Christian; it has to do with classroom control.A young girl in Tennessee says she was suspended after breaking a class rule of saying “bless you” after a classmate sneezed.
When Dyer County High School senior Kendra Turner said bless you, she says her teacher told her that was for church.
Turner feels her teacher was taking issue for her religion. When she stood up for herself, Turner says she was told to go to the administrator’s office. She was later placed in in-school suspension for the rest of that class period.
Her pastor Rev. Becky Winegardner says they had just talked about how to stand up for their faith last week.
“There were several students that were talking about this particular faculty member there that was very demeaning to them in regards to their faith,” Winegardner said.
Students sent WMC a photo of the teacher’s white board that lists “bless you” and other expressions that are banned as part of class rules.
Girl suspended for saying ‘bless you’ at school | WGN-TV
Which has been affirmed from every side -- the school, the parents, the pastor and the girl herself ("I want them to realize that God is in control and they're not.")
PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
by avoiding diversions....I really don't know how you navigate through a day in court.
its also completely independent of the discussion I am engaged in....stop diverting....My first comment in this thread was on the story itself and why it's contrived bullshit -- bad and unethical journalism. That's completely independent of the student.
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