Get Rid of the Loopholes... what does it mean?

[g5000]

I'm fine with getting rid of all loopholes, and reverting back to the original tax 1913 tax tables, adjusted for inflation. Here's what the tax table would be:

View attachment 74723

I'm with you in principle, but the budget of the federal government has outpaced inflation.

If the highest tax rate was 7 percent, we'd have even bigger deficits. I doubt we'd even be able to buy an aircraft carrier.

 

[boedicca]

I'm fine with getting rid of all loopholes, and reverting back to the original tax 1913 tax tables, adjusted for inflation. Here's what the tax table would be:

View attachment 74723

I'm with you in principle, but the budget of the federal government has outpaced inflation.

If the highest tax rate was 7 percent, we'd have even bigger deficits. I doubt we'd even be able to buy an aircraft carrier.

Oh, we could live without 95% of what the government spends, but the problem is the number of people who live off of us.

 

[bendog]

I'm fine with getting rid of all loopholes, and reverting back to the original tax 1913 tax tables, adjusted for inflation. Here's what the tax table would be:

View attachment 74723

I'm with you in principle, but the budget of the federal government has outpaced inflation.

If the highest tax rate was 7 percent, we'd have even bigger deficits. I doubt we'd even be able to buy an aircraft carrier.

A billion here, a billion there - pretty soon you're talking real money.

 

[Boss]

Tax expenditures are the greatest fiscal boondoggle of our time.

There are $1.2 TRILLION of them in our tax code. That's the annual government gift program. $1.2 trillion.

$1,200,000,000,000.

It does not take long to acquire a $19 trillion debt when you give away $1.2 trillion in government gifts each year.

Congress has been putting a tax giveaway in the tax code at the rate of one per day for about 15 years now, and Republicans are by far the biggest offenders.

You know why Republicans like them so much? Because a tax giveaway is another form of deficit spending, but the rubes don't catch on.

Every dollar that is given away in tax expenditures has to be made up for by someone else. Someone else has to be robbed to pay for that $1.2 trillion. Basically, EVERYONE has to be robbed to come up with that kind of cash each and every year.

And how is that achieved? With higher tax rates! And deficit spending.

If we eliminated tax expenditures, we'd instantly have a balanced budget. Not just a balanced budget, we'd have a surplus!

But then you take away the incentive for special interests to donate to congressional campaign funds, and we can't have that! Oh, no. That would be REAL campaign finance reform, and there is no fucking way in hell incumbents are going to go for that.

You speak of our taxes as if you are entitled to them and you're doing us a favor to let us keep some. That's not how our system works.. that's how the Bolshevik's system worked... It's not how a free republic works.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

The MID is one of the biggest con jobs of all time. It is STEALING from you. Your home price is HIGHER because of the MID. Your deduction ("I get to keep more of my money!" ) is more than cancelled out by a more expensive house and higher tax rates.

And who profits from higher home prices?

Home builders, real estate brokers, bank lenders. That's who.

YES.. CAPITALISTS... practicing free market capitalism in a free enterprise system! They make profits and then spend their profits in the marketplace... it's what makes our economy happen, dipshit.

So... in order for you to feel like you've punished a few capitalists who were making profits... we're going to eliminate the mortgage interest deduction.... and that will cause what to happen with the cost of housing?

Well... for starters, it will cause an immediate demand for smaller houses and virtually kill any demand for larger homes. This means you'll fix that worrisome problem of big expensive homes... they won't exist anymore because no one will want to hold the mortgage on one. I guess you'll be alright with capitalist bulldozer operators leveling beautiful million-dollar homes because no one wants them?

Tiny Houses will become all the rage... and what better way to go for the coming Socialist Utopia where you go and work wherever the government tells you to go... just load your Tiny House of a flatbed and you're off!

 

[g5000]

You speak of our taxes as if you are entitled to them and you're doing us a favor to let us keep some.

Nope. Quite the opposite.

You have been conned into a huge lie. You think the mortgage interest deduction lets you keep more of your own money. I have proven just how big a lie that is. You are being robbed.

Your behavior is being controlled like a rat in a maze, sucker.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

The MID is one of the biggest con jobs of all time. It is STEALING from you. Your home price is HIGHER because of the MID. Your deduction ("I get to keep more of my money!" ) is more than cancelled out by a more expensive house and higher tax rates.

And who profits from higher home prices?

Home builders, real estate brokers, bank lenders. That's who.

YES.. CAPITALISTS... practicing free market capitalism in a free enterprise system!

BWA-HA-HA-HA!

Oh, man, you are seriously confused. You think government meddling in the marketplace is free market capitalism!

You think bankers and realtors manipulating the system to tilt the field to their advantage as they plunder your pockets through government behaviorial control is capitalism?

Holy fuck! You are one befuddled fool.

 

[Boss]

Nope. Quite the opposite.

You have been conned into a huge lie. You think the mortgage interest deduction lets you keep more of your own money. I have proven just how big a lie that is. You are being robbed.

Your behavior is being controlled like a rat in a maze, sucker.

I've not been conned. I have studied history and I know what has happened. I don't have any control over it, I've not been in charge of it, I am merely a part of it as an American citizen who pays my taxes. You're the one who has been conned into believing one helluva conspiracy theory because you're apparently too illiterate of history to know what the fuck is happening around you.

BWA-HA-HA-HA!

Oh, man, you are seriously confused. You think government meddling in the marketplace is free market capitalism!

You think bankers and realtors manipulating the system to tilt the field to their advantage as they plunder your pockets through government behaviorial control is capitalism?

Holy fuck! You are one befuddled fool.

No, YOU'RE seriously confused, I don't think any such a thing. I want government out of the marketplace as much as it can be. Let free markets prevail and they always will. I think bankers and realtors are capitalists who are in business to make profits. I don't think they are evil people out to take food from the mouths of the starving. Of course they are going to take advantage of the laws we pass and try to make as much profit as they can... that's what capitalists do. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[g5000]

I want government out of the marketplace as much as it can be.

If that were true, you would be as virulently opposed to tax expenditures as I am. You even admitted tax expenditures are government behavioral control programs which interfere in the marketplace!

let's do a tax incentive to see if we can encourage more of something

That's government interference in the marketplace, fool!

You are confused. You think getting rid of tax expenditures is a liberal thing. It isn't. It is a bedrock conservative cause.

You poor dumb bastards have been led so far off the conservative reservation, you don't know a basic conservative principle when it bites you in the face!

 

[Little-Acorn]

Get Rid of the Loopholes... what does it mean?


Loophole (n): A remaining bit of freedom the government hasn't taken away yet.

 

[Boss]

I want government out of the marketplace as much as it can be.

If that were true, you would be as virulently opposed to tax expenditures as I am. You even admitted tax expenditures are government behavioral control programs which interfere in the marketplace!

let's do a tax incentive to see if we can encourage more of something

That's government interference in the marketplace, fool!

You are confused. You think getting rid of tax expenditures is a liberal thing. It isn't. It is a bedrock conservative cause.

You poor dumb bastards have been led so far off the conservative reservation, you don't know a basic conservative principle when it bites you in the face!

Again, as I said in the OP, I am not here to advocate for tax incentives... I believe we should get rid of them by eliminating taxes. But if we are going to keep the current IRS system and income tax, we have to look objectively at these so-called "loopholes" and we can't imagine them as "expenditures" because they aren't. An expenditure is something you are spending money you have on... you don't have the money... your not taxing them for it. You keep wanting to think the money belongs to government and we're giving it to someone by letting them keep it... they earned it.. it's their money.

Okay, so even IF we're going to keep the IRS and the current tax code, I'm still not saying ALL tax incentives are good. Some are good, some are bad. Some we certainly do need to get rid of... others we certainly need to keep unless we come up with another solution for the problems they fix. Remember, the incentives are born in Congress where a debate was had on some problem and how to solve it.

We can objectively do this... take every tax incentive, one by one, and analyze whether it is working effectively, if there is any abuse... like hedge fund managers exploiting short-term gains rules in the cap gains tax laws... we can discern what kind of effective solutions can be implemented and make changes accordingly.... What I am opposing is this blind mindless chant of "Get Rid of The Loopholes" without even so much as a conversation regarding what you're talking about... it's just an emotive, class warfare BLEAT!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This meme has been around a while. It started back during the Great Depression as most things progressive, with FDR. The Loopholes are Progressive dog-whistle for tax incentives, credits and deductions. It began with the whole "Robber Barons" thing... all those rich people with advantages the normal guy doesn't get. It's a common thread preached throughout the progressive movement. But it has now made it's way across the aisle to the right. More and more republicans and even conservatives are caught extolling the thought.... we must get rid of these awful and terrible LOOPHOLES!

Now let's study objectively on what exactly a "loophole" really is. We're talking about things mostly in our US tax code laws, which have been put there through the years by previous congresses and legislative actions. While I am sure there are some backroom deals made here and there, lobby efforts paid off, donors satisfied, etc., by and large, you have to think that whenever Congress gains the needed majority support to enact new tax law they probably had a reason better than lining their own pockets. If not, the problem isn't loopholes.

So what happens is, they have some problem they are trying to address... what do we do about this thing that keeps happening that we don't want to happen? Well... let's do a tax incentive to see if we can encourage more of something to keep that bad thing from happening? Like.... when no one was purchasing new homes. It was a major expense and people wanted to save. So in order to get people to start buying homes again, the government made mortgage interest deductible. All these "loopholes" are actually solutions to some problem we were having at some time.

But now we have all these mindless idiots running around screaming... get rid of the loopholes! And they don't even have the first clue as to which loopholes they specifically want to get rid of or what to do about the consequential problem that is going to again arise whenever we eliminate the incentive. They don't want to objectively look at anything... just repeat the mindless rant that it's "not fair" for these people to get this and those people can't. But you can never have total fairness AND total freedom. It's one or the other.

Now don't take me wrong here... I am not advocating for ALL tax incentives (aka: loopholes)! I think the best way to eliminate the loopholes is to just eliminate the taxation. No tax-- no need for a loophole. We should be intelligently discussing why a consumerist juggernaut like ourselves isn't taking advantage of a consumption tax instead of an income tax? Why can't we set aside century-old progressive rhetoric and answer that question?

It means your thread premise fails as a straw man fallacy, composed of nothing but lies.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Get Rid of the Loopholes... what does it mean?


Loophole (n): A remaining bit of freedom the government hasn't taken away yet.

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