Geothermal, the third leg of a renewable triad

[Concerned American]

You mean a heat pump

Geothermal to produce electricity is not even close to being similar

No, I mean geothermal. I think you have a misconception of geothermal. I know of a hotel in Kaslo, BC, Canada that uses geothermal technology that uses the warmer waters of Kootenai Lake to augment their heating systems. Geothermal does not mean they use the earth's heat exclusively. The temperature under six feet of ground is ~50 degrees. If that is used to preheat or maintain heat, it is much easier to heat that air to a comfortable 72 degrees than heating air that may be 32 degrees or lower.

 

[westwall]

No, I mean geothermal. I think you have a misconception of geothermal. I know of a hotel in Kaslo, BC, Canada that uses geothermal technology that uses the warmer waters of Kootenai Lake to augment their heating systems. Geothermal does not mean they use the earth's heat exclusively. The temperature under six feet of ground is ~50 degrees. If that is used to preheat or maintain heat, it is much easier to heat that air to a comfortable 72 degrees than heating air that may be 32 degrees or lower.

That's a heat pump, not geothermal.

 

[Concerned American]

That's a heat pump, not geothermal.

No it is geothermal---8" lines are laid over a grid in the earth where air, recirculated and fresh, is circulated to increase the temperature before being further heated to the desired temp. In the cases I know of, this grid can contain a couple hundred feet of air space. Then it can be finished off, so to speak, with other heating sources--electric, oil-fired boilers or yes, heat pumps. I would be interested in seeing a link of anywhere that uses strictly volcanic heat to provide 100% of heat required.

 

[westwall]

No it is geothermal---8" lines are laid over a grid in the earth where air, recirculated and fresh, is circulated to increase the temperature before being further heated to the desired temp. In the cases I know of, this grid can contain a couple hundred feet of air space. Then it can be finished off, so to speak, with other heating sources--electric, oil-fired boilers or yes, heat pumps. I would be interested in seeing a link of anywhere that uses strictly volcanic heat to provide 100% of heat required.

That's a heat pump. Not geothermal. I have helped develop a geothermal plant. Dr. Austin Richards had me come in and do some problem solving when he was building the China Lake plant.

 

[Concerned American]

That's a heat pump. Not geothermal. I have helped develop a geothermal plant. Dr. Austin Richards had me come in and do some problem solving when he was building the China Lake plant.

No it is not a heat pump. A heat pump extracts heat from outside air--which is not where the air comes from when it is -5 degrees outside. Why try to heat (or extract that heat) when you can use 50 degrees (that is heated from the heat of the earth) air to begin with. A heat pump is an HVAC system and in this area they are not used as extensively as in more moderate climes like you live in. China Lake is in the desert--I don't think they've probably seen single digit temps in my lifetime anyway. As I said, I am unaware of anywhere that uses the earth's heat for 100% of their heat. In our case in the northern climes, the geothermal increase from an outside temp of -5 to 50 degrees (for free) makes it much less expensive to heat to the final temp of 72. This is not to say that a heat pump cannot be used along with geothermal to provide the final product. However, it is not the only way to heat or circulate that earth-preheated air.
AI Response
A heat pump is not exactly the same as a central heat and air system, but it can be part of one. A heat pump provides both heating and cooling by transferring heat, while a central heat and air system typically includes a separate furnace for heating and an air conditioner for cooling. carrier.comnewnanac.com

Understanding Heat Pumps and Central Heat and Air Systems​

What is a Heat Pump?​

A heat pump is a versatile HVAC system that provides both heating and cooling. It works by transferring heat from one place to another. In winter, it extracts heat from the outside air and brings it indoors. In summer, it reverses the process, removing heat from inside your home and releasing it outside.

What is a Central Heat and Air System?​

A central heat and air system typically refers to a combination of a furnace (for heating) and an air conditioning unit (for cooling). This system uses ductwork to distribute heated or cooled air throughout the home. The furnace generates heat, while the air conditioner cools the air by removing heat from inside.

 

[elektra]

No it is not a heat pump. A heat pump extracts heat from outside air--which is not where the air comes from when it is -5 degrees outside. Why try to heat (or extract that heat) when you can use 50 degrees (that is heated from the heat of the earth) air to begin with. A heat pump is an HVAC system and in this area they are not used as extensively as in more moderate climes like you live in. China Lake is in the desert--I don't think they've probably seen single digit temps in my lifetime anyway. As I said, I am unaware of anywhere that uses the earth's heat for 100% of their heat. In our case in the northern climes, the geothermal increase from an outside temp of -5 to 50 degrees (for free) makes it much less expensive to heat to the final temp of 72. This is not to say that a heat pump cannot be used along with geothermal to provide the final product. However, it is not the only way to heat or circulate that earth-preheated air.
AI Response
A heat pump is not exactly the same as a central heat and air system, but it can be part of one. A heat pump provides both heating and cooling by transferring heat, while a central heat and air system typically includes a separate furnace for heating and an air conditioner for cooling. carrier.comnewnanac.com

Understanding Heat Pumps and Central Heat and Air Systems​

What is a Heat Pump?​

A heat pump is a versatile HVAC system that provides both heating and cooling. It works by transferring heat from one place to another. In winter, it extracts heat from the outside air and brings it indoors. In summer, it reverses the process, removing heat from inside your home and releasing it outside.

What is a Central Heat and Air System?​

A central heat and air system typically refers to a combination of a furnace (for heating) and an air conditioning unit (for cooling). This system uses ductwork to distribute heated or cooled air throughout the home. The furnace generates heat, while the air conditioner cools the air by removing heat from inside.

The thread is about geothermal not heat pumps
Old crock started a thread about electrity generation, not transferring heat from air or a lake.

And simiar to westwall I have industrial experience working at geothermal plants.

This is what us folks that actually work on them call them. Geo as in from the earth not the air

You can answer with a big fat, "oh"

 

[elektra]

Like I said, that depends on where the field is. The Geysers north of San Francisco has been in continuous operation since 1960 IIRC. They are still using a majority of the original wells too.

That one plant accounts for more than 15% of the entire California renewable power generation.

The geysers, you can say continuous after a certain year cause the geysers went dry then they had to frack water into the earth to make steam. I think that is accrate to state

 

[Concerned American]

This is what us folks that actually work on them call them. Geo as in from the earth not the air

I am fully aware of what geothermal relates to and I believe I related that clearly. Your sarcasm isn't called for. I spent a 44 year career in industry. I also understand that GEO relates to the earth and THERMAL relates to heat. If you can't understand that heating 50 degree air to 72 degrees is easier and more cost efficient than heating -5 degree air to 72 degrees because then I believe you don't know as much as you think you do. If you aren't aware that the temperature of the earth 10 feet below the surface remains at ~50 degrees year around and that heat can warm ambient -5 degree air by 55 degrees you haven't got a clue as to what geothermal relates to. You and I are usually on the same page, but in this case you are off base.

 

[elektra]

I am fully aware of what geothermal relates to and I believe I related that clearly. Your sarcasm isn't called for. I spent a 44 year career in industry. I also understand that GEO relates to the earth and THERMAL relates to heat. If you can't understand that heating 50 degree air to 72 degrees is easier and more cost efficient than heating -5 degree air to 72 degrees because then I believe you don't know as much as you think you do. If you aren't aware that the temperature of the earth 10 feet below the surface remains at ~50 degrees year around and that heat can warm ambient -5 degree air by 55 degrees you haven't got a clue as to what geothermal relates to. You and I are usually on the same page, but in this case you are off base.

This thread is about electricity, not air. All my posts are about geothermal as in electricity generation.

I never address anything but commercial electricity generation.

 

[elektra]

Living in cold weather, I think there is more potential than old faithful. I know people who are using geothermal to augment their heating systems in their shops.

Old faithful is an example how geothermal is intermitten, violent, energy resulting in not being efficient.

Cant use old faithful to heat your home or make electricity.

 

[Concerned American]

This thread is about electricity, not air. All my posts are about geothermal as in electricity generation.

I never address anything but commercial electricity generation.

Electrical generation is only one aspect of geothermal and the first word of the OP is Geothermal--not electricity. Geothermal has energy conservation aspects as well as electrical generation. Geothermal is variable, volcanic is only one aspect. Ambient geothermal has uses in the more efficient usage of energy. As for your never addressing anything but electricity generation, your posting history seems to contradict that. I've seen your posts addressing the SCOTUS, the deficit, Israel, and politics. It's really not that important. It's a matter of magnitude and application. Now that I am aware that you are addressing industrial, volcanic electrical generation, I will butt out.

 

[Concerned American]

Cant use old faithful to heat your home or make electricity.

Westwall has posted about the geysers of the Calistoga area of CA generating electricity. Yes geysers can be used to generate electricity. Anything capable of producing enough heat to create steam can turn a turbine.

 

[westwall]

Westwall has posted about the geysers of the Calistoga area of CA generating electricity. Yes geysers can be used to generate electricity. Anything capable of producing enough heat to create steam can turn a turbine.

To be accurate, the Geysers uses wells drilled down to around 12,000 feet to access the heated fluid.

No geyser is ever tapped for power.

 

[Concerned American]

To be accurate, the Geysers uses wells drilled down to around 12,000 feet to access the heated fluid.

No geyser is ever tapped for power.

???? Is it not steam that is released from those wells creating steam that turns the turbines that generate the electricity?

 

[Concerned American]

???? Is it not steam that is released from those wells creating steam that turns the turbines that generate the electricity?

 

[Grumblenuts]

To be accurate, the Geysers uses wells drilled down to around 12,000 feet to access the heated fluid.

No geyser is ever tapped for power.

To be accurate,

• Deepest well: 12,900 feet
• Average well depth: 8,500 feet

And kudos Concerned American for unusually arguing many good points here.

 

[elektra]

Westwall has posted about the geysers of the Calistoga area of CA generating electricity. Yes geysers can be used to generate electricity. Anything capable of producing enough heat to create steam can turn a turbine.

Very inefficient, extremely expensive, without subsidies more expensive than everything else, except solar and wind which have failed

 

[elektra]

???? Is it not steam that is released from those wells creating steam that turns the turbines that generate the electricity?

They quit producing steam, got to pump water and inject it, frack it. Take the lid off the steam pot and the energy disappears

 

[elektra]

Electrical generation is only one aspect of geothermal and the first word of the OP is Geothermal--not electricity.

I have worked on geothermal, wind and solar, nuclear, natural gas and coal electricity power plants. I have worked on nuclear submarines and now I work on the fuel supply system for rockets. Gee I almost forgot the fusion reactor I worked on.

Please explain what this means cause i am too ******* stupid to understand, it is in the title of this thread

the third leg of a renewable triad​

 

[elektra]

No, I mean geothermal. I think you have a misconception of geothermal. I know of a hotel in Kaslo, BC, Canada that uses geothermal technology that uses the warmer waters of Kootenai Lake to augment their heating systems. Geothermal does not mean they use the earth's heat exclusively. The temperature under six feet of ground is ~50 degrees. If that is used to preheat or maintain heat, it is much easier to heat that air to a comfortable 72 degrees than heating air that may be 32 degrees or lower.

Thread 'Geothermal, uses Federal Grant to pay investors!'

Feb 29, 2016

In the crazy World of PTC's and Subsidized Green, Renewable, Clean power nothing is as rotten as Geothermal.
U.S. Geothermal used a Federal Grant to pay Equity Investors! Us Taxpayers, literally pay investors millions of dollars so that they can be rich!!!!!

A google search finds this, 1st result, which take me to a black page that downloads a pdf? Strange.

Google

If you click on this link it downloads a U. S. security and exchange commission pdf directly to your computer, or at least on mine, I do not like this but it is the doc
www.usgeothermal.com/media/financial/8

From...

• elektra