Georgia Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

[geauxtohell]

News Flash for idiot liberals: it reads "freedom OF religion",..... not "freedom FROM religion"! Our grandparent's would be rooli g over in their graves if they could get control of their gaffaw's and uncontrollable laughter at the political correctness (liberal stupidity)that is rampant in our country these days!! I'm sure it wasn't one of the seniors that lodged the complaint,... but a liberal observer who was "just looking out for the best interests" of said senior citizens. Unbelievable......

So what should be the punishment for athiests? Maybe we can stick them in the stocks again.

 

[boedicca]

They noticed "several" people praying. Not all of them. How on earth is that against the rules? Those "several" people had the right to pray just as the ones not praying had the right not to pray.

I think it was the fact that they had official time set aside for people to pray out loud. The article wasn't entirely clear. Whatever it was, it has now been replaced by a moment of silence where people can pray to themselves or not.

If this is a massive violation of people's constitutional right to practice their religion, then it should be taken up with the courts.

Wrong. A condition to which you are doubtlessly accustomed.

The Center was not leading group prayer - it substituted a moment of silence in place of individuals choosing to say Grace. They only knew that the individuals chose to say Grace before meals upon a visit by some of the organizations personnel.

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served.

The 1st Amendment rights of those seniors have been violated. They have been ordered to remain silent as a condition of getting their meal. The fact that you find this to be Constitutional just reveals the inadequacy of your understanding and education.

 

[geauxtohell]

They noticed "several" people praying. Not all of them. How on earth is that against the rules? Those "several" people had the right to pray just as the ones not praying had the right not to pray.

I think it was the fact that they had official time set aside for people to pray out loud. The article wasn't entirely clear. Whatever it was, it has now been replaced by a moment of silence where people can pray to themselves or not.

If this is a massive violation of people's constitutional right to practice their religion, then it should be taken up with the courts.

Wrong. A condition to which you are doubtlessly accustomed.

The Center was not leading group prayer - it substituted a moment of silence in place of individuals choosing to say Grace. They only knew that the individuals chose to say Grace before meals upon a visit by some of the organizations personnel.

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served.

The 1st Amendment rights of those seniors have been violated. They have been ordered to remain silent as a condition of getting their meal. The fact that you find this to be Constitutional just reveals the inadequacy of your understanding and education.

Well, then. It sounds like you got yourself a boffo court case. Inform the ACLU and stop wasting your time arguing it with me. I can't change the outcome.

Though I suspect it's significantly more complicated than this.

BTW, when you go to church, don't forget to light an extra candle for the innocent dead who would be living except for a fucked up war that we started and you supported.

 

[xsited1]

...

What do y'all think? Should anyone who receives meals funded by the government, have their right to pray before the meal stripped from them?

Nothing is more powerful than the Government. Not even God himself!!!

 

[boedicca]

wasting your time arguing it with me. I can't change the outcome.

Quoting the only accurate thing you've posted. Arguing with you is a waste of time as you are completely ineffectual moron.

 

[geauxtohell]

wasting your time arguing it with me. I can't change the outcome.

Quoting the only accurate thing you've posted. Arguing with you is a waste of time as you are completely ineffectual moron.

Does this mean you don't like me?

I just don't think I could stand the thought of that......

 

[Si modo]

Just one of several:

Federal Court Strikes Down Louisiana School Prayer Law. - Free Online Library

More importantly, the federal government doesn't have to establish a state religion before the establishment clause comes into effect.

This wouldn't be an issue if individuals were praying. It was an issue because it was a group prayer.

Thanks for that. [Emphasis added] The People happened to pray. The only official act by the government was to establish funds for food.

The article is a little vague, but my impression was they were leading an official prayer before the meal.

But Senior Citizens Inc. officials said Friday the meals they are contracted by the city to provide to Ed Young visitors are mostly covered with federal money, which ushers in the burden of separating church and state.

On Thursday, the usual open prayer before meals at the center was traded in for a moment of silence.

The dilemma is being hashed out by the Port Wentworth city attorney, said Mayor Glenn "Pig" Jones.

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served. Rutherford said his company provides meals like baked chicken, steak tips and rice and salads at a cost of about $6 a plate. Seniors taking the meals pay 55 cents and federal money foots the rest of the bill, Rutherford said.

"We can't scoff at their rules," he said of federal authorities. "It's a part of the operational guidelines."

If this were individuals praying, it would be different. I don't think it's a terribly big deal either way, but it's a far cry of people being deprived of their liberties (as it is being construed here).

Or if it is, then it should be taken up in the courts.

Anyways, the guy sums it up in the article. If you take the money from the government, you have to play by their rules.

This wouldn't be an issue at a church that was providing meals to seniors out of funds from the congregation.

Maybe it should go to court. If the government rules that no prayer is allowed, I see a 1st Amendment problem.

The only thing government established here is money for food.

 

[xsited1]

wasting your time arguing it with me. I can't change the outcome.

Quoting the only accurate thing you've posted. Arguing with you is a waste of time as you are completely ineffectual moron.

Does this mean you don't like me?

I just don't think I could stand the thought of that......

I don't like you either. You just watch yourself. We're wanted humans. I have the death sentence on twelve systems.

 

[American Horse]

the first amendment is NOT being followed, in my opinion....



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech...

They would be abridging the freedom of speech, in the case above....and they are prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE, THERE OF....in my opinion as well....admittingly, I am no constitutional lawyer....

Which just shows how back-asswards things can get when we turn people loose with an agenda to force conformity on others, particularly for politically correct reasons. One doesn’t have to be a constitutional attorney to see through this silliness. What are they who force this afraid of, really? As an atheist, do I feel a small amount of discomfort when I'm in a room with people praying, and I don't share the same conviction? Yes, but I respect it because I feel it means something worthy to them, and that is more important than any discomfort I may momentarily feel. I tolerate them and they tolerate me; it’s a two way street.

 

[boedicca]

Maybe it should go to court. If the government rules that no prayer is allowed, I see a 1st Amendment problem.

The only thing government established here is money for food.

The seniors pay 55 cents of the $6 cost. Perhaps the government will allow them to say 9% of their Grace out loud.

 

[Ravi]

Apparently the story was false.

Lyons says, the regulations come from Georgia Department of Human Services.

However, officials at DHS say, there appears to be a miscommunication.

"There are no guidelines or policies set by the Division of Aging Services that would prohibit public prayer," says James Bulot, head of the Division of Aging Services at DHS. "We serve over four million meals a year and this is the first time this has come to our attention."

DHS: No Prayer Ban at Seniors' Meals | Georgia Public Broadcasting

 

[Si modo]

Apparently the story was false.

Lyons says, the regulations come from Georgia Department of Human Services.

However, officials at DHS say, there appears to be a miscommunication.

"There are no guidelines or policies set by the Division of Aging Services that would prohibit public prayer," says James Bulot, head of the Division of Aging Services at DHS. "We serve over four million meals a year and this is the first time this has come to our attention."

DHS: No Prayer Ban at Seniors' Meals | Georgia Public Broadcasting

Good. As it should be.

 

[geauxtohell]

I don't like you either. You just watch yourself. We're wanted humans. I have the death sentence on twelve systems.

I will try to make it through my day with this knowledge.

 

[geauxtohell]

Apparently the story was false.

Lyons says, the regulations come from Georgia Department of Human Services.

However, officials at DHS say, there appears to be a miscommunication.

"There are no guidelines or policies set by the Division of Aging Services that would prohibit public prayer," says James Bulot, head of the Division of Aging Services at DHS. "We serve over four million meals a year and this is the first time this has come to our attention."

DHS: No Prayer Ban at Seniors' Meals | Georgia Public Broadcasting

Shocking. Positively shocking...

So...... Who hyped this and for what reason?

 

[boedicca]

Apparently the story was false.

Lyons says, the regulations come from Georgia Department of Human Services.

However, officials at DHS say, there appears to be a miscommunication.

"There are no guidelines or policies set by the Division of Aging Services that would prohibit public prayer," says James Bulot, head of the Division of Aging Services at DHS. "We serve over four million meals a year and this is the first time this has come to our attention."

DHS: No Prayer Ban at Seniors' Meals | Georgia Public Broadcasting

Correction. The story was not false - the incident happened. The Center inappropriately prevented the seniors from saying Grace - and has now been informed that the policy doesn't not prohibit prayers.


Officials are trying to sort out a brouhaha over seniors saying grace over their meals.

The senior center's meals are paid for by federal funds.

Recently, that center told seniors they couldn't say a communal blessing and changed it to a moment of silence.

Port Wentworth Mayor Glenn Jones says, he went immediately to speak to the seniors.

"It's crazy and absurd," Jones says. "All they want to do is say grace over their meal."

The director of the agency administering the meals says, she knows the importance of prayer in many seniors' lives.

Patty Lyons of Senior Citizens, Inc., says the difference is how it's done.

"We are a private non-profit," Lyons says. "We're just trying to follow the regulations that are set forward."

Lyons says, the regulations come from Georgia Department of Human Services.

However, officials at DHS say, there appears to be a miscommunication....

 

[Si modo]

Apparently the story was false.

Lyons says, the regulations come from Georgia Department of Human Services.

However, officials at DHS say, there appears to be a miscommunication.

"There are no guidelines or policies set by the Division of Aging Services that would prohibit public prayer," says James Bulot, head of the Division of Aging Services at DHS. "We serve over four million meals a year and this is the first time this has come to our attention."

DHS: No Prayer Ban at Seniors' Meals | Georgia Public Broadcasting

Correction. The story was not false - the incident happened. The Center inappropriately prevented the seniors from saying Grace - and has now been informed that the policy doesn't not prohibit prayers.


Officials are trying to sort out a brouhaha over seniors saying grace over their meals.

The senior center's meals are paid for by federal funds.

Recently, that center told seniors they couldn't say a communal blessing and changed it to a moment of silence.

Port Wentworth Mayor Glenn Jones says, he went immediately to speak to the seniors.

"It's crazy and absurd," Jones says. "All they want to do is say grace over their meal."

The director of the agency administering the meals says, she knows the importance of prayer in many seniors' lives.

Patty Lyons of Senior Citizens, Inc., says the difference is how it's done.

"We are a private non-profit," Lyons says. "We're just trying to follow the regulations that are set forward."

Lyons says, the regulations come from Georgia Department of Human Services.

However, officials at DHS say, there appears to be a miscommunication....

Apparently the mayor has a grasp of freedom of speech. Others, not so much.

 

[geauxtohell]

Recently, that center told seniors they couldn't say a communal blessing and changed it to a moment of silence.

So it was a "communal blessing" and not just random individuals praying?

I wish you guys would make up your mind on the matter.

 

[Care4all]

i don't see anything in that post that would require anyone receiving a meal to pray publicly.

there are kosher meals on wheels too because people with dietary restrictions can't eat impermissible food.

on the other hand, someone shouldn't be required to sit through a christian prayer (or any prayer) to get government paid for meals. and i figure the O/P would be in meltdown if anyone suggested that a muslim prayer be held before that same meal.

is there something there i'm not seeing?

yes, imo, you are missing "free speech".....

I don't have to like what you are saying, but you still have the right to say it....the jews and muslims in congress, hears the opening prayer, by congress's Christian chaplin 80% of the time, and by guest speakers of various religions on other times....Christians do not stop the Rabbi guest or Muslim guest from speaking or saying the opening prayer...nor does congress plug its ears to it or claim it is unconstitutional due to the first amendment?

Congress sometimes does what it thinks it has to do to be sure to be re-elected. So far no congress person has had the courage, as far as I know, to contest that practice.

The opening prayer of Congress is a farce, just as having jurors swear on a bible is.

To YOU anguille, it is a farce, and you have the inalienable right, to keep this, as what YOU THINK, but to others it is NOT, and for them, they too have the inalienable right, to keep this, as what they think.

No one stops anyone from not getting their meal, if they do not join in saying the grace that others want to say.... you do not have a right to put yourself in a bubble and only hear the things you agree with Anguille....not if you are in a public place....you do not have the right to stop the freedom of speech of others is how I see it, and they do not have the right to stop you....if you want to say some grace that thanks yourself or thanks the usa government for providing this meal, NO ONE is stopping you....you have that guaranteed freedom, to say, what you think as others have the same.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names WILL NEVER HURT ME..... Why do you feel those seniors saying grace, HURTS YOU?

I don't get it? I was taught to be accommodating and respectful to the religions or nonbeliefs of others...to let them all believe what they want to believe and NOT to ever disparage them....

 

[Skull Pilot]

As I said, the court cases disagree with your opinion on these matters.

Ciitation, please.

The government provided money for food; The People happened to pray.

Just one of several:

Federal Court Strikes Down Louisiana School Prayer Law. - Free Online Library

More importantly, the federal government doesn't have to establish a state religion before the establishment clause comes into effect.

This wouldn't be an issue if individuals were praying. It was an issue because it was a group prayer.

So then you would be in favor of a law suit against every politician who says "God Bless America"? Maybe we should revoke all their funding.

We should not have our so called leaders forcing us to invoke the deity no?

How about saying "God bless you" after someone sneezes? Surely that is even more of a crime if one says it in a federal building is it not?

Once again the so called tolerant crowd is guilty of intolerance because they're so thin skinned and easily offended that absolutely everything is an affront.

Makes me sick.

 

[Care4all]

The prayers were the voluntary activity of the people eating the meals:

Tim Rutherford, Senior Citizens Inc. vice president, said some of his staff recently visited the center and noticed people praying shortly before lunch was served. Rutherford said his company provides meals like baked chicken, steak tips and rice and salads at a cost of about $6 a plate. Seniors taking the meals pay 55 cents and federal money foots the rest of the bill, Rutherford said

....

"Like one lady said, 'You can stop me from speaking, but you can't stop me from praying what's in my heart,"' he said. "But the best answer right now is that we're trying to get the best information possible and legal council is looking at what would happen if we continued to pray."


The Center was not leading or sponsoring the prayers. The individuals involved wish to say their grace out loud.

I suppose if some of them started singing the "mmm mmm mmm Obama" song, that would be fine - but thanking God for their blessings is somehow wrong?

No wonder this country is falling apart.

Is this a government run center? And as Si Modo has pointed out several times, all the government did was provide food, that doesn't mean they get to dictate what people do before or after the meal. I can't believe the idiots on here who think that because the government provides the food they have the right to dictate what happens all around the meal. I guess people that receive welfare funds shouldn't have the right to attend church on Sunday's either since they accept government money? Talk about extremist bullshit.

precisely!