Georgia Senate blocks mega tax cuts for Delta in response to Delta punishing law abiding NRA

[dblack]

I'm a fascist because I'm AGAINST government giving big corporations special perks. You're working WAY too hard for that one

No, you are a fascist because you are FOR the government trying to force one private entity to give special perks to a different private entity.

then we're all fascist by that definition because we all want the gov to force private entities to do something sooner or later.

like bake a cake for a gay couple. or pay more taxes because something "isn't fair" globally. give more breaks to minorities in job lines. give more welfare to a particular class. regulate how a private business can conduct business.

Not all of us.

 

[kaz]

The law was written to benefit Delta and it disproportionately does. What you have there is a distinction without a difference. Everyone knows the law was written for Delta.

And how are fuel taxes treated for non-airline industries? Like airlines? Or not ...

Delta employs 33,000 people in Atlanta. Any of a dozen other city airports would love to be the Delta hub. And offer them the same if not larger fuel tax savings.

If Atlanta wants to throw away 33,000 jobs because 13 NRA folks don't get a flight discount, let them. .

Having lived in Atlanta and flown in and out of Hartsfield over a hundred times (was in management consulting), there's no way they could do that. You're right

 

[kaz]

And you assume I care about the political parties involved because?....

I don't care what party is being overly intrusive here. Democrats, Republicans, it doesn't matter; politicians will use government in ways they shouldn't regardless of political affiliation. I also don't care that it involves the NRA, nor Delta; it's the intrusive nature of the actions that bother me, not which companies or organizations are involved.

Whatever Delta may deserve, it should not be meted out by government in this instance.

Only a leftist would care that a big corporation lost a special tax break other companies don't get because they decided to be political and attack the NRA.

Delta was getting a benefit from the people of Georgia. All of them, not just the leftists. Staying out of politics would have been a smart thing to do.

I'm glad they didn't. I oppose special tax breaks and I'm glad they lost it

It isn't about Delta losing a tax break. I have no problem with Delta losing the tax break. It is the way the government went about it, using a tax break as a lever to try to get one private corporation to continue giving a discount to a private organization. Cagle pretty specifically said that he would kill any legislation that gave Delta a fuel tax break unless they returned to giving the NRA discounts for their convention.

You are insisting the issue is Delta getting a tax break. It is not. It is about representatives using the power of government to try to force a private company to give a discount to a particular organization. I would be happier without so many tax breaks, with a simplified tax system that does not try to social engineer the way ours does.

I agree, but what goes around comes around.

What did DumBama threaten businesses with if they didn't provide employer sponsored healthcare coverage to their employees? Not only healthcare, but with his vote buying riders like birth control?

But that wasn't enough. He also raped taxpayers of their income tax return if THEY didn't have coverage; as if they didn't have enough financial problems as it was.

The liberals sure didn't mind that. In fact, they reelected him afterward. Now they are coming to the aid of Delta because using tax brakes is immoral, unconstitutional and over powering.

The thing with leftists is that Montrovant wrote that all up as if he's reasonable and balanced and this is a serious issue to him. Pogo and dblack thank him for imparting such an eloquent justification for how the GA legislature was wrong.

And yet if we switched parties, the three of them would all switch sides. The argument meant nothing to any of them. It was just a homework assignment in a rhetoric class.

That's why you can't get anywhere debating them. You can destroy their argument, like you did. But tomorrow they're going to argue whatever position benefits the Democrat party too.

And they keep blowing off the point that it's foolish for big corporations to get so directly involved in politics. Again if we switched sides, they would suddenly get it

You talk about not being able to debate with me, yet you are the one who can't get past the assumption that I am a "leftist" and would not feel the same way if a different organization were involved. The problem seems to be your inability to accept that some people are not on one of two political 'sides'.

I mean, dblack? I obviously haven't read nearly all of his posts, but he has always struck me as someone with a libertarian sort of political leaning.

You're arguing the straight down the line leftist view. Positive rights = negative rights and there's nothing stupid about companies jumping in with both feet into a hot political issue. It's not your conclusions, it's that you see nothing but the leftist view.

On dblack, he does that. When you talk philosophy, he is a libertarian. When you talk positions, he's a leftist.

I don't know how he reconciles claiming he is for individual liberty but he's sympathetic to leftist authoritarianism. And I didn't randomly pull him in. He was clicking positive on the leftist views here. How does a libertarian not support gun rights? It's not possible.

Gun rights are about authoritarian leftist government, and no one knows that better than leftists

 

[kaz]

I don't like targeted tax breaks. Everyone should get the break. When you target tax breaks, that's government picking marketplace winners and losers. And they ALWAYS pick big companies as winners because they are the ones who line their pockets

Actually nobody should get the break. We need to quit using taxes for social engineering.

Take away the children, college, home ownership and every other tax break.

I think I agree, but you're mixing apples and oranges. I was talking about business taxes and you're talking about personal taxes.

Deducting business expenses is not synonymous with taking personal deductions. But I agree on the flat tax approach.

BTW, so you don't get distressed again. I'm going out of town shortly for the week. I don't want you to get upset when I'm not responding to your posts like you did on Saturday night. I'll be back next weekend, no worries.

A useful hint. If you click on my user ID, you can check to see if I'm posting at all. Like last night. If I'm not posting at all, it's not reasonable to believe I'm specifically ignoring your post. Think about it

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I'm a fascist because I'm AGAINST government giving big corporations special perks. You're working WAY too hard for that one

No, you are a fascist because you are FOR the government trying to force one private entity to give special perks to a different private entity.

Strawman. You made that up

No, I did not. That is what happened in Georgia and there are now 139 pages with you never once being against it.

 

[kaz]

Only a leftist would care that a big corporation lost a special tax break other companies don't get because they decided to be political and attack the NRA.

Delta was getting a benefit from the people of Georgia. All of them, not just the leftists. Staying out of politics would have been a smart thing to do.

I'm glad they didn't. I oppose special tax breaks and I'm glad they lost it

Why do you keep lying about no one else getting the tax cut?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You didn't know it's a special tax break? Seriously? Haven't you read any of the articles on the thread you keep posting in?

No, what I did was read the actual bill itself and find out it was for all airlines purchasing jet fuel in Georgia.

Perhaps next time you might choose to educate yourself and not rely on the left wing media.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The law was written to benefit Delta and it disproportionately does. What you have there is a distinction without a difference. Everyone knows the law was written for Delta.

And how are fuel taxes treated for non-airline industries? Like airlines? Or not ...

the benefits did benefit delta, but they were extended to *all* airlines and i do believe *all* airlines are losing it regardless of delta.

Yes. But as I understand, $40 million of $50 million in the writeoffs were Delta. So the other $10 million was all other airlines combined. That's why all the articles on it are focusing on Delta

 

[dblack]

And yet if we switched parties, the three of them would all switch sides.

I'm not much interested in your sides. If you switched patties, but we're still spouting the same authoritarian horseshit, I'd still call you on it.

 

[kaz]

I'm a fascist because I'm AGAINST government giving big corporations special perks. You're working WAY too hard for that one

No, you are a fascist because you are FOR the government trying to force one private entity to give special perks to a different private entity.

Strawman. You made that up

No, I did not. That is what happened in Georgia and there are now 139 pages with you never once being against it.

That's a lie. I've said at least a dozen times I'm against all special tax breaks. You're still just making up your shit as you go.

I'm a libertarian, so I'm against high taxes. But I don't like special tax breaks because that is government picking market winners. I want a level paying field. And special tax breaks always benefit big companies over small ones because big companies line the pockets of politicians in both parties.

That's why Obama, Slick, Slick's ho all headed straight to Wall Street to give speeches for hundreds of K a pop when they left office. It's corporate America's way of letting the existing politicians know what's waiting for them if they vote the right way now

 

[iceberg]

I'm a fascist because I'm AGAINST government giving big corporations special perks. You're working WAY too hard for that one

No, you are a fascist because you are FOR the government trying to force one private entity to give special perks to a different private entity.

then we're all fascist by that definition because we all want the gov to force private entities to do something sooner or later.

like bake a cake for a gay couple. or pay more taxes because something "isn't fair" globally. give more breaks to minorities in job lines. give more welfare to a particular class. regulate how a private business can conduct business.

Not all of us.

ok.

 

[iceberg]

Why do you keep lying about no one else getting the tax cut?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You didn't know it's a special tax break? Seriously? Haven't you read any of the articles on the thread you keep posting in?

No, what I did was read the actual bill itself and find out it was for all airlines purchasing jet fuel in Georgia.

Perhaps next time you might choose to educate yourself and not rely on the left wing media.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The law was written to benefit Delta and it disproportionately does. What you have there is a distinction without a difference. Everyone knows the law was written for Delta.

And how are fuel taxes treated for non-airline industries? Like airlines? Or not ...

the benefits did benefit delta, but they were extended to *all* airlines and i do believe *all* airlines are losing it regardless of delta.

Yes. But as I understand, $40 million of $50 million in the writeoffs were Delta. So the other $10 million was all other airlines combined. That's why all the articles on it are focusing on Delta

they're focusing on delta because they told the NRA "no thanks" and these days everything is a war.

 

[kaz]

Government's job is to show up when it's over, draw lines around the bodies and make a few inquiries to see if they can figure out who did it. It's our job to protect ourselves, and government must be stopped from preventing us from doing that

Aren't you afraid a group of thugs will play "take the gun from the teacher"?

How is that different than any other CC holder? If you want a perfect system. Start by proposing one

 

[kaz]

Why do you keep lying about no one else getting the tax cut?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You didn't know it's a special tax break? Seriously? Haven't you read any of the articles on the thread you keep posting in?

No, what I did was read the actual bill itself and find out it was for all airlines purchasing jet fuel in Georgia.

Perhaps next time you might choose to educate yourself and not rely on the left wing media.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The law was written to benefit Delta and it disproportionately does. What you have there is a distinction without a difference. Everyone knows the law was written for Delta.

And how are fuel taxes treated for non-airline industries? Like airlines? Or not ...

the benefits did benefit delta, but they were extended to *all* airlines and i do believe *all* airlines are losing it regardless of delta.

As I said in another post, from what I read Delta would be getting about 4/5 of the benefit from the tax break, or $40 of 50 million. I would imagine it is because other airlines tend to refuel at other locations.

Hartsfield is a Delta hub. Over 75% of all flights out of Hartsfield are Delta and Hartsfield is the busiest airport in the world. Probably higher at the smaller airport as Delta is the local hop carrier. It's not that other airlines act differently in Atlanta, it's that Delta is just so much bigger there than everyone else combined.

Georgia is also a red State. Attacking the NRA there was a particularly stupid idea

 

[Harpy Eagle]

That's a lie. I've said at least a dozen times I'm against all special tax breaks. You're still just making up your shit as you go.

I'm a libertarian, so I'm against high taxes. But I don't like special tax breaks because that is government picking market winners. I want a level paying field. And special tax breaks always benefit big companies over small ones because big companies line the pockets of politicians in both parties.

That's why Obama, Slick, Slick's ho all headed straight to Wall Street to give speeches for hundreds of K a pop when they left office. It's corporate America's way of letting the existing politicians know what's waiting for them if they vote the right way now

And you have never once said you are against the government trying to force one private entity to give a financial discount to another private entity. Why are you ok with that happening?

 

[kaz]

And yet if we switched parties, the three of them would all switch sides.

I'm not much interested in your sides. If you switched patties, but we're still spouting the same authoritarian horseshit, I'd still call you on it.

I espoused authoritarian horseshit? When did I do that?

Hearing things again?

 

[kaz]

I'm a fascist because I'm AGAINST government giving big corporations special perks. You're working WAY too hard for that one

No, you are a fascist because you are FOR the government trying to force one private entity to give special perks to a different private entity.

then we're all fascist by that definition because we all want the gov to force private entities to do something sooner or later.

like bake a cake for a gay couple. or pay more taxes because something "isn't fair" globally. give more breaks to minorities in job lines. give more welfare to a particular class. regulate how a private business can conduct business.

I oppose everything listed in that post

 

[kaz]

I'm a fascist because I'm AGAINST government giving big corporations special perks. You're working WAY too hard for that one

No, you are a fascist because you are FOR the government trying to force one private entity to give special perks to a different private entity.

Strawman. You made that up

No, I did not. That is what happened in Georgia and there are now 139 pages with you never once being against it.

You're a liar. I've repeatedly said I'm against all special tax breaks

 

[kaz]

You didn't know it's a special tax break? Seriously? Haven't you read any of the articles on the thread you keep posting in?

No, what I did was read the actual bill itself and find out it was for all airlines purchasing jet fuel in Georgia.

Perhaps next time you might choose to educate yourself and not rely on the left wing media.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The law was written to benefit Delta and it disproportionately does. What you have there is a distinction without a difference. Everyone knows the law was written for Delta.

And how are fuel taxes treated for non-airline industries? Like airlines? Or not ...

the benefits did benefit delta, but they were extended to *all* airlines and i do believe *all* airlines are losing it regardless of delta.

Yes. But as I understand, $40 million of $50 million in the writeoffs were Delta. So the other $10 million was all other airlines combined. That's why all the articles on it are focusing on Delta

they're focusing on delta because they told the NRA "no thanks" and these days everything is a war.

It's not that Delta told the NRA no thanks. It's that the announced they were telling the NRA no thanks to be political. Delta won't even confirm who has that discount, they normally won't comment on it at all. So yeah, they targeted the NRA. BTW, the NRA wasn't involved in the shooting. It was a government failure across government

 

[Montrovant]

You clearly are looking at this through a partisan lens, either your own or what you expect from others

LOL, you advocating Democrat's selfish interest isn't partisan, calling what you're doing partisan is partisan!

And I don't belong to or vote for either Republicans or Democrats. I have debates going on now with Patriot where I'm against Republican morality laws and JP52 where I'm against Republican trade policy. It's like I said in another post. Being leftist isn't being political or partisan. Not being leftist is being political and partisan

iness What about my posting would indicate to you that my opinion would change based on the targeted organization?

1) You recognize no difference between passing a law that removed something from Delta that everyone gets and removing a law that was designed to help Delta

2) You don't recognize that companies being overtly political is a bad idea

The tax break in question, from what I have read, would have been for all airlines, not just Delta. So, in effect, the Georgia legislature apparently did pass a law targeted at Delta that removed a tax break all airlines get

True, but misleading. First, Delta is the totally dominant airlines in Georgia. I lived there and was in consulting and traveled all the time. All the other airlines combined are far less than Delta. It's a huge break for Delta that other airlines with other hubs on the east coast don't get.

Second, you only expanded it to "airlines." Actually, other businesses don't get that tax break, including ones that compete with airlines. Why are all the articles about this hurting Delta if it doesn't actually hurt them the most? You're just deflecting

I'm not sure why Delta would have gotten so much of the money from the tax break (supposedly $40 million of the $50 million total), but it was more than just Delta involved. Perhaps other airlines don't use Atlanta for refueling very often. Delta cutting ties with the NRA could cost the airline $40 million

Over 75% of all flights out of Hartsfield airport are Delta

You're obviously free to assume that my opposition is due to my political leanings, or my opposition to the NRA, or whatever other explanation you care to create in your mind. Those assumptions are not based on my posts, however.

It's based on your argument where you acknowledge nothing but the Democrat position

You cannot seem to help making things up I have neither said nor indicated.

I recognize that the tax break would have helped Delta far more than other airlines. I did, in fact, point out that Delta would be getting the lion's share of the benefit in the post you just quoted.

Whether companies being overly political is a bad idea or not has nothing at all to do with my problem with what the GA government did. Good idea, bad idea, or neutral, my problem is with the GA government making a tax break contingent upon a private company giving a discount to a private organization. Why you seem incapable of accepting that, I don't know.

I have never once said or implied that I am in favor of the tax break. If the tax break was created with the intent of benefiting Delta, specifically, I oppose that. That still doesn't change my opinion that the way the GA government went about this was wrong.

What is the Democrat position on this issue? I haven't tried to find out, but perhaps you have. If the Democrat position is that governments should not pressure private organizations to give a discount to another private organization, then in this instance, I agree with the Democrat position. You may not realize this, but it is possible to agree with the position of a political party on one issue without being a member of, or even normally agreeing with, that political party. It's strange that you understand someone doesn't have to be part of or agree with Democrats or Republicans, yet you assume that because I (according to you) agree with the Democrat position on this one issue, I must therefore be a Democrat or a leftist.

I acknowledge the position of those I disagree with on this issue. I simply disagree with them. A number of people have held the position that the actions of the GA government here were entirely proper. I have no problem acknowledging that. I disagree with it.

Do you generally base your opinion on someone's political affiliation on their opinion about a single subject?

 

[Montrovant]

Only a leftist would care that a big corporation lost a special tax break other companies don't get because they decided to be political and attack the NRA.

Delta was getting a benefit from the people of Georgia. All of them, not just the leftists. Staying out of politics would have been a smart thing to do.

I'm glad they didn't. I oppose special tax breaks and I'm glad they lost it

It isn't about Delta losing a tax break. I have no problem with Delta losing the tax break. It is the way the government went about it, using a tax break as a lever to try to get one private corporation to continue giving a discount to a private organization. Cagle pretty specifically said that he would kill any legislation that gave Delta a fuel tax break unless they returned to giving the NRA discounts for their convention.

You are insisting the issue is Delta getting a tax break. It is not. It is about representatives using the power of government to try to force a private company to give a discount to a particular organization. I would be happier without so many tax breaks, with a simplified tax system that does not try to social engineer the way ours does.

I agree, but what goes around comes around.

What did DumBama threaten businesses with if they didn't provide employer sponsored healthcare coverage to their employees? Not only healthcare, but with his vote buying riders like birth control?

But that wasn't enough. He also raped taxpayers of their income tax return if THEY didn't have coverage; as if they didn't have enough financial problems as it was.

The liberals sure didn't mind that. In fact, they reelected him afterward. Now they are coming to the aid of Delta because using tax brakes is immoral, unconstitutional and over powering.

The thing with leftists is that Montrovant wrote that all up as if he's reasonable and balanced and this is a serious issue to him. Pogo and dblack thank him for imparting such an eloquent justification for how the GA legislature was wrong.

And yet if we switched parties, the three of them would all switch sides. The argument meant nothing to any of them. It was just a homework assignment in a rhetoric class.

That's why you can't get anywhere debating them. You can destroy their argument, like you did. But tomorrow they're going to argue whatever position benefits the Democrat party too.

And they keep blowing off the point that it's foolish for big corporations to get so directly involved in politics. Again if we switched sides, they would suddenly get it

You talk about not being able to debate with me, yet you are the one who can't get past the assumption that I am a "leftist" and would not feel the same way if a different organization were involved. The problem seems to be your inability to accept that some people are not on one of two political 'sides'.

I mean, dblack? I obviously haven't read nearly all of his posts, but he has always struck me as someone with a libertarian sort of political leaning.

You're arguing the straight down the line leftist view. Positive rights = negative rights and there's nothing stupid about companies jumping in with both feet into a hot political issue. It's not your conclusions, it's that you see nothing but the leftist view.

On dblack, he does that. When you talk philosophy, he is a libertarian. When you talk positions, he's a leftist.

I don't know how he reconciles claiming he is for individual liberty but he's sympathetic to leftist authoritarianism. And I didn't randomly pull him in. He was clicking positive on the leftist views here. How does a libertarian not support gun rights? It's not possible.

Gun rights are about authoritarian leftist government, and no one knows that better than leftists

This issue is not about gun rights. Is that what you think I have been arguing? That I am opposed to gun rights?

 

[Montrovant]

You didn't know it's a special tax break? Seriously? Haven't you read any of the articles on the thread you keep posting in?

No, what I did was read the actual bill itself and find out it was for all airlines purchasing jet fuel in Georgia.

Perhaps next time you might choose to educate yourself and not rely on the left wing media.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The law was written to benefit Delta and it disproportionately does. What you have there is a distinction without a difference. Everyone knows the law was written for Delta.

And how are fuel taxes treated for non-airline industries? Like airlines? Or not ...

the benefits did benefit delta, but they were extended to *all* airlines and i do believe *all* airlines are losing it regardless of delta.

Yes. But as I understand, $40 million of $50 million in the writeoffs were Delta. So the other $10 million was all other airlines combined. That's why all the articles on it are focusing on Delta

they're focusing on delta because they told the NRA "no thanks" and these days everything is a war.

Actually, United also cut their discounts for the NRA convention. Delta and United join list of companies to cut ties with the NRA