Georgia Senate blocks mega tax cuts for Delta in response to Delta punishing law abiding NRA

[Pogo]

Just heard about this. Will find a link. Kudos to the Senators for hitting back at the NRA. Why should gun owners in Georgia who pay taxes have to support Delta financially?

If Delta doesn't want or need the business of 5 million NRA members why do they even need a tax break?

Delta’s tax break may not take flight after Georgia Senate blocks it

You're actually suggesting a corporation must be FORCED to pay a tithe to the gun nut lobby? A corporation whose business has nothing to do with firearms, should be coerced into promoting that sicko gun culture to which its own business is vulnerable?

Exactly how far down this hole of authoritarian sycophancy do you intend to go here TD?

 

[WillowTree]

How would you feel about this, if a Democratic state representative in New York had held tax breaks for Chik-fil-a hostage unless they gave discounts to members of Planned Parenthood?

First, the scenario is implausible, given that they would have had to be giving discounts to members of Planned Parenthood to begin with.

Second, I wouldn't feel anything. Because Chick-fil-A would manage without them just fine. Considering they were making $8 billion in revenue as of 2016.

First of all, it's a hypothetical. Whether it is "plausible" or not is irrelevant. I am simply asking how you would feel if the political sides were flipped.

Second, I want to be clear on what your position is.

Are you saying that you would have no problem with a state government holding tax breaks for a "conservative" company hostage unless they gave discounts to a political organization that they disagreed with?

But you had no problem with Obama’s when he threatened states like North Carolina right?

 

[del]

How would you feel about this, if a Democratic state representative in New York had held tax breaks for Chik-fil-a hostage unless they gave discounts to members of Planned Parenthood?

First, the scenario is implausible, given that they would have had to be giving discounts to members of Planned Parenthood to begin with.

Second, I wouldn't feel anything. Because Chick-fil-A would manage without them just fine. Considering they were making $8 billion in revenue as of 2016.

First of all, it's a hypothetical. Whether it is "plausible" or not is irrelevant. I am simply asking how you would feel if the political sides were flipped.

Second, I want to be clear on what your position is.

Are you saying that you would have no problem with a state government holding tax breaks for a "conservative" company hostage unless they gave discounts to a political organization that they disagreed with?

But you had no problem with Obama’s when he threatened states like North Carolina right?

you know that north carolina isn't a private company, right?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

How would you feel about this, if a Democratic state representative in New York had held tax breaks for Chik-fil-a hostage unless they gave discounts to members of Planned Parenthood?

First, the scenario is implausible, given that they would have had to be giving discounts to members of Planned Parenthood to begin with.

Second, I wouldn't feel anything. Because Chick-fil-A would manage without them just fine. Considering they were making $8 billion in revenue as of 2016.

First of all, it's a hypothetical. Whether it is "plausible" or not is irrelevant. I am simply asking how you would feel if the political sides were flipped.

Second, I want to be clear on what your position is.

Are you saying that you would have no problem with a state government holding tax breaks for a "conservative" company hostage unless they gave discounts to a political organization that they disagreed with?

But you had no problem with Obama’s when he threatened states like North Carolina right?

I know you guys can't really help yourselves, but this thread isn't about Obama.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Just to clarify, this temper tantrum by the Georgia Lt Gov is not about Delta refusing to do business with the NRA. All Delta did was stop giving the NRA a discount.

Now the Georgia senate wants to try and strong-arm Delta so they will give the NRA their discounts back???? This is conservatism?? No, it is not.

I'm sure you'd like to define conservatism as "not fighting back when attacked", but we're not really inclined to accept your parameters.

When attacked? So stopping discounts is now an attack?

And since when does stopping discounts warrant high ranking state officials actually attacking a private business? Yeah, extorting private companies to provide discounts to your political donors is NOT what conservatives do. It is political bullshit. It is what the lowest scum politicians do.

I guess whether or not it's viewed as an attack depends on the people doing the viewing, now doesn't it? Hasn't that been the left's song and dance for a while now, that "offensive" and "hate speech" and whatever are determined by the alleged victim?

So yeah, if the members of the NRA feel attacked and offended, I really don't see where YOU get a vote in that.

As for "what conservatives do", what part of "unless you're a conservative, no one asked you or cares what you think" did I not make clear to you? I don't ask a fish for advice on how to fly, and I don't ask leftists for advice on how to be a conservative.

On the other hand, if I want to know about "lowest scum politicians", leftists are definitely the right source.

I think you're just pissed that Georgia is dealing itself into a game you've been trying to keep to yourselves.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Intrusion? Seems to me the intrusion was when the government started trying to pick and choose economic winners in the first place.

While I do not agree with tax breaks for anyone, that still does not make it alright for the government to intrude in a squabble between private companies


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Again, if the constituents feel that the "private squabble" is an attack on them and demand it, do you really expect their elected representatives to refuse?

Please offer some evidence that this is the case.

And yes, I would like to think that doing the right thing mattered to elected officials. I do not believe that elected officials are there to jump at the daily whims of the voters.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yes, well, politics can sometimes require balancing between what an officeholder thinks is right, and what their constituents think is right. This is probably not one of those cases, though. Do you really think it's likely that politicians from Georgia are big into gun-grabbing?

Furthermore, the NRA has a national membership of 5 million people. How many of them do you suppose are in a state like Georgia? And how pissed off do you think they are about Delta's decision, particularly considering that NRA members tend to be very passionate and energized on the subject of gun rights?

Again, the NRA's influence comes from its politically active membership. If you really think they're just sitting quietly and taking this boycott bullshit without a fight, you're delusional.

If the NRA members are pissed at Delta, then THEY should boycott Delta. The gov't should not use the tax system to punish Delta. If you cannot see how wrong that is, I have no way to make you see.

Well, you're correct that you have no way to make me see the world the way you do. I have no interest in putting my head that far up my ass.

I'm sure there are NRA members already boycotting Delta, and I expect it will grow. That in no way revokes their right to ALSO decide that they don't want a tax break deal to be made with them. Like it or not, leftie, you don't have a God-given right to government goodies.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Just heard about this. Will find a link. Kudos to the Senators for hitting back at the NRA. Why should gun owners in Georgia who pay taxes have to support Delta financially?

If Delta doesn't want or need the business of 5 million NRA members why do they even need a tax break?

Delta’s tax break may not take flight after Georgia Senate blocks it

So its a good thing the state govt attacks businesses like this?

So you want to protect your 2nd amendment but get angry when someone uses their 1st amendment rights..humm could that be called a cherry picker..[emoji39] [emoji11] [emoji89]

Sent from my XT1575 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

Using the power of government to pressure a business into performing or not performing certain actions for another organization is not someone using their 1st amendment rights. According to a quote in the article, the tax break in question was explicitly described as being contingent upon Delta resuming its previous business affairs with the NRA.

I don't know what version of the First Amendment YOU'RE reading, but the version I'm familiar with says, "Petition the government for redress of grievances". Doesn't specify what the grievances have to be to count. You get to pester your local politician for whatever you wanna pester him for.

 

[WinterBorn]

When attacked? So stopping discounts is now an attack?

And since when does stopping discounts warrant high ranking state officials actually attacking a private business? Yeah, extorting private companies to provide discounts to your political donors is NOT what conservatives do. It is political bullshit. It is what the lowest scum politicians do.

Well that said all Ga. is doing is stopping discounts to Delta. See how that works?

If it were that simple, I wouldn't bat an eye.

But the same people who are threatening to remove the tax break are the ones who pushed for it. And they are not just removing the tax break. They are using the tax system to punish Delta for removing discounts. That is the worst sort of gov't interference in private affairs. This is what conservative vehemently opposed in the past.

Wow, it's like politicians are human beings who can change their minds according to the situation, or some shit like that.

Oh please, this is not about them changing their minds. All the reasons for the tax exemption still exist. What changed is that Delta no longer offers a discount for NRA members. This is using the tax system to punish a business for not toeing the line.

Yes, what changed was that Delta did something that made tax breaks less appealing to the Senate's constituents. Which would be exactly the sort of change they're SUPPOSED to pay attention to.

Constituents? Do you think their constituents really care about the discount the NRA got for one event?

Delta is the largest employer in the state. I would think they would care about that.

 

[WinterBorn]

Well that said all Ga. is doing is stopping discounts to Delta. See how that works?

If it were that simple, I wouldn't bat an eye.

But the same people who are threatening to remove the tax break are the ones who pushed for it. And they are not just removing the tax break. They are using the tax system to punish Delta for removing discounts. That is the worst sort of gov't interference in private affairs. This is what conservative vehemently opposed in the past.

Wow, it's like politicians are human beings who can change their minds according to the situation, or some shit like that.

Oh please, this is not about them changing their minds. All the reasons for the tax exemption still exist. What changed is that Delta no longer offers a discount for NRA members. This is using the tax system to punish a business for not toeing the line.

Guess politicians in Georgia don't care much for a company that won't kiss NRA's ass

Since a goodly number of their constituents are NRA members or supporters, why is that surprising? You certainly expect politicians in leftist states like California to cooperate with every left-wing advocacy group that comes down the pike, don't you?

I actually expect politicians to act in a manner that is best for their state or nation.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Just heard about this. Will find a link. Kudos to the Senators for hitting back at the NRA. Why should gun owners in Georgia who pay taxes have to support Delta financially?

If Delta doesn't want or need the business of 5 million NRA members why do they even need a tax break?

Delta’s tax break may not take flight after Georgia Senate blocks it

kudos to them indeed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Boycott Georgia Senate!

Can't imagine what you think the Georgia Senate is currently getting from you.

 

[WinterBorn]

While I do not agree with tax breaks for anyone, that still does not make it alright for the government to intrude in a squabble between private companies


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Again, if the constituents feel that the "private squabble" is an attack on them and demand it, do you really expect their elected representatives to refuse?

Please offer some evidence that this is the case.

And yes, I would like to think that doing the right thing mattered to elected officials. I do not believe that elected officials are there to jump at the daily whims of the voters.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yes, well, politics can sometimes require balancing between what an officeholder thinks is right, and what their constituents think is right. This is probably not one of those cases, though. Do you really think it's likely that politicians from Georgia are big into gun-grabbing?

Furthermore, the NRA has a national membership of 5 million people. How many of them do you suppose are in a state like Georgia? And how pissed off do you think they are about Delta's decision, particularly considering that NRA members tend to be very passionate and energized on the subject of gun rights?

Again, the NRA's influence comes from its politically active membership. If you really think they're just sitting quietly and taking this boycott bullshit without a fight, you're delusional.

If the NRA members are pissed at Delta, then THEY should boycott Delta. The gov't should not use the tax system to punish Delta. If you cannot see how wrong that is, I have no way to make you see.

Well, you're correct that you have no way to make me see the world the way you do. I have no interest in putting my head that far up my ass.

I'm sure there are NRA members already boycotting Delta, and I expect it will grow. That in no way revokes their right to ALSO decide that they don't want a tax break deal to be made with them. Like it or not, leftie, you don't have a God-given right to government goodies.

Leftie? WTF? Because I despise politicians using the tax system to punish a private company for not catering to a big political donor? No.

NRA members boycotting Delta is not part of the issue. That is fine.

Cagle said "I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA,” In otherwords, he is punishing Delta unless Delta steps back in line. That is the worst kind of gov't interference in private business.

Oh, and rightwing loon, I have been an outspoken proponent of removing ALL tax breaks and fundamentally changing the tax system to remove this ability to make the tax system a weapon. But that would be actual conservatism, not this sick version being practiced now.

 

[Montrovant]

Just heard about this. Will find a link. Kudos to the Senators for hitting back at the NRA. Why should gun owners in Georgia who pay taxes have to support Delta financially?

If Delta doesn't want or need the business of 5 million NRA members why do they even need a tax break?

Delta’s tax break may not take flight after Georgia Senate blocks it

So its a good thing the state govt attacks businesses like this?

So you want to protect your 2nd amendment but get angry when someone uses their 1st amendment rights..humm could that be called a cherry picker..[emoji39] [emoji11] [emoji89]

Sent from my XT1575 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

Using the power of government to pressure a business into performing or not performing certain actions for another organization is not someone using their 1st amendment rights. According to a quote in the article, the tax break in question was explicitly described as being contingent upon Delta resuming its previous business affairs with the NRA.

I don't know what version of the First Amendment YOU'RE reading, but the version I'm familiar with says, "Petition the government for redress of grievances". Doesn't specify what the grievances have to be to count. You get to pester your local politician for whatever you wanna pester him for.

I'm not talking about anyone petitioning government, I'm talking about the actions of the government. When a government representative says that a piece of legislation will not be passed unless company A does business in a particular way with organization X, that is not free speech. The representative is not acting as a private citizen in that context.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Just to clarify, this temper tantrum by the Georgia Lt Gov is not about Delta refusing to do business with the NRA. All Delta did was stop giving the NRA a discount.

Now the Georgia senate wants to try and strong-arm Delta so they will give the NRA their discounts back???? This is conservatism?? No, it is not.

I'm sure you'd like to define conservatism as "not fighting back when attacked", but we're not really inclined to accept your parameters.

Was the government of Georgia attacked by Delta not giving NRA members a discount? If not, why is the government of Georgia the one "fighting back"?

If Georgia doesn't want to give Delta a tax break, great! That's fine. Making the tax break contingent upon Delta having a particular business relationship with the NRA, on the other hand, I am opposed to. One specific organization should not have to do business with another specific organization in order to get a tax break. If it were more general; say, airlines must give discounts to members of non-profits, or something along those lines; that would be a different argument. This is too much like me getting a tax break.....if I shop at Wal Mart instead of Target, or if I use VisionWorks instead of Lens Crafters, etc.

As I said in a previous post, though, I don't think this is about conservatism or liberalism.

The government of the state of Georgia represents the people of the state of Georgia. Apparently, many of the current and prospective officeholders of that government, as well as the people themselves, DO feel that Delta has attacked them. And who the hell are you to tell them how they should and shouldn't feel?

You can be opposed to whatever you want. But unless you're a citizen of Georgia, you really don't get a vote in this. I'm fairly certain they're not looking for the approval of citizens of other states.

Furthermore, perhaps you could look at it as them objecting to Delta discriminating against certain non-profits. Delta still continues to offer discount programs to members of other groups, do they not? It is just this one which is being singled out.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

While I do not agree with tax breaks for anyone, that still does not make it alright for the government to intrude in a squabble between private companies


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Again, if the constituents feel that the "private squabble" is an attack on them and demand it, do you really expect their elected representatives to refuse?

Please offer some evidence that this is the case.

And yes, I would like to think that doing the right thing mattered to elected officials. I do not believe that elected officials are there to jump at the daily whims of the voters.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yes, well, politics can sometimes require balancing between what an officeholder thinks is right, and what their constituents think is right. This is probably not one of those cases, though. Do you really think it's likely that politicians from Georgia are big into gun-grabbing?

Furthermore, the NRA has a national membership of 5 million people. How many of them do you suppose are in a state like Georgia? And how pissed off do you think they are about Delta's decision, particularly considering that NRA members tend to be very passionate and energized on the subject of gun rights?

Again, the NRA's influence comes from its politically active membership. If you really think they're just sitting quietly and taking this boycott bullshit without a fight, you're delusional.

If the NRA members are pissed at Delta, then THEY should boycott Delta. The gov't should not use the tax system to punish Delta. If you cannot see how wrong that is, I have no way to make you see.

Well, you're correct that you have no way to make me see the world the way you do. I have no interest in putting my head that far up my ass.

I'm sure there are NRA members already boycotting Delta, and I expect it will grow. That in no way revokes their right to ALSO decide that they don't want a tax break deal to be made with them. Like it or not, leftie, you don't have a God-given right to government goodies.

Do you get discounts when you show your Communist Party membership card like people do for AARP and the NRA?

 

[Cecilie1200]

you have to understand that cons have very strict principles and they won't budge from them if the price isn't right

You have to understand that leftists try to insist on conservatives holding to principles set up as straw men by the leftists, while they themselves proudly have no principles whatsoever.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Delta has more than 30,000 employees in Atlanta, both at the airport and its corporate headquarters adjacent to Hartsfield-Jackson. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL)
They aren't going anywhere.....

Georgia needs Delta more than Delta needs Georgia.

Well, I guess that's what this little poker hand will determine.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Delta has more than 30,000 employees in Atlanta, both at the airport and its corporate headquarters adjacent to Hartsfield-Jackson. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL)
They aren't going anywhere.....

Georgia needs Delta more than Delta needs Georgia.

I don't even think it is about that. Delta had the fuel tax exemption until 2015. Now they were slated to get it back. If they do or don't give it back, I am fine.

It is the gov't interference in the affairs of law-abiding private businesses that galls me. And the blatant sellout of the high ranking gov't officials.

Why do you assume it's a "sell-out", rather than an expression of their actual positions and feelings? What does that tell us about YOUR politicians and their relationships with advocacy groups?

 

[koshergrl]

Just heard about this. Will find a link. Kudos to the Senators for hitting back at the NRA. Why should gun owners in Georgia who pay taxes have to support Delta financially?

If Delta doesn't want or need the business of 5 million NRA members why do they even need a tax break?

Delta’s tax break may not take flight after Georgia Senate blocks it

So its a good thing the state govt attacks businesses like this?

So you want to protect your 2nd amendment but get angry when someone uses their 1st amendment rights..humm could that be called a cherry picker..[emoji39] [emoji11] [emoji89]

Sent from my XT1575 using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

Using the power of government to pressure a business into performing or not performing certain actions for another organization is not someone using their 1st amendment rights. According to a quote in the article, the tax break in question was explicitly described as being contingent upon Delta resuming its previous business affairs with the NRA.

I don't know what version of the First Amendment YOU'RE reading, but the version I'm familiar with says, "Petition the government for redress of grievances". Doesn't specify what the grievances have to be to count. You get to pester your local politician for whatever you wanna pester him for.

I'm not talking about anyone petitioning government, I'm talking about the actions of the government. When a government representative says that a piece of legislation will not be passed unless company A does business in a particular way with organization X, that is not free speech. The representative is not acting as a private citizen in that context.

That is some convoluted reasoning there, skippy.

 

[Montrovant]

Just to clarify, this temper tantrum by the Georgia Lt Gov is not about Delta refusing to do business with the NRA. All Delta did was stop giving the NRA a discount.

Now the Georgia senate wants to try and strong-arm Delta so they will give the NRA their discounts back???? This is conservatism?? No, it is not.

I'm sure you'd like to define conservatism as "not fighting back when attacked", but we're not really inclined to accept your parameters.

Was the government of Georgia attacked by Delta not giving NRA members a discount? If not, why is the government of Georgia the one "fighting back"?

If Georgia doesn't want to give Delta a tax break, great! That's fine. Making the tax break contingent upon Delta having a particular business relationship with the NRA, on the other hand, I am opposed to. One specific organization should not have to do business with another specific organization in order to get a tax break. If it were more general; say, airlines must give discounts to members of non-profits, or something along those lines; that would be a different argument. This is too much like me getting a tax break.....if I shop at Wal Mart instead of Target, or if I use VisionWorks instead of Lens Crafters, etc.

As I said in a previous post, though, I don't think this is about conservatism or liberalism.

The government of the state of Georgia represents the people of the state of Georgia. Apparently, many of the current and prospective officeholders of that government, as well as the people themselves, DO feel that Delta has attacked them. And who the hell are you to tell them how they should and shouldn't feel?

You can be opposed to whatever you want. But unless you're a citizen of Georgia, you really don't get a vote in this. I'm fairly certain they're not looking for the approval of citizens of other states.

Furthermore, perhaps you could look at it as them objecting to Delta discriminating against certain non-profits. Delta still continues to offer discount programs to members of other groups, do they not? It is just this one which is being singled out.

I haven't told anyone how they can feel. I've discussed my opposition to government using tax breaks as a threat against a single company for not doing business in a particular way with a single organization.

I am a citizen of Georgia.

Sure, I could look at this as discriminating against certain non-profits. However, to do that, I'd logically have to look at the NRA discount itself as discriminating against other non-profits, as so far as I know, that discount only applies to NRA members. Furthermore, that reasoning would make any discount to a certain group discriminatory against all other similar groups.

If the Georgia government had simply withheld approval of the legislation providing tax breaks to airlines, that would have been far better than explicitly saying the tax break would be withheld because one private company decided not to give discounts to members of one organization. There are plenty of reasons Georgia might not want to provide a tax break to airlines for fuel. Members of that government decided to make it about Delta not providing discounts to NRA members.