Genetic studies on Palestinians and Israelis

[Phoenall]

You really need to look closely at what the Palestinians say and do. If they preferred life to death they would not put their children on the front line as human shields, they would not engage in war from civilian areas when half their country is open land. They would not use suicide bombings as a means of terrorism, nor would they use illegal chemical and biological weapons.

I wouldn't bet the farm this is actually happening.... It doesn't sound plausible to me, sounds more like Zionist propaganda.

The UN collected the evidence and they told the Palestinians to stop. Read the Goldstone repor6t it is all in there.

 

[Phoenall]

I wouldn't bet the farm this is actually happening.... It doesn't sound plausible to me, sounds more like Zionist propaganda.

It's really a shame that there are no Chippendale studs waiting for Amity up there in the Islamic whorehouse in the sky.

Can I have the Chippendale studs??

I have a box full of second hand quarter inch studs I removed from some Chippendale chairs, will they do ?

 

[amity1844]

I took-cut a part of the bibliography in my small book called on the subnect ,"The Engagement", starting with item 13, and initially I attached it to a previous answer and renumbered it to no. 1, 2, 3, but it was partially cut off. When you asked me to complete the missing part - for a lack of time and for unliking the mandane of repeating myself, the second time I did not renumber. Following is the complete bibliography in that book:REFERENCES

1. Ben-Gurion, David & Ben-Zvi, Yitzhak. The Land of Israel in the Past and in the Present. The Yiddish version, New York, 1918.

2. Ben-Zvi, Yitzhak. Populations of Our Land. Warsaw: The Labor Committee of "Brit Hanoar" and the World Khaluts Center, 1932.

3. Writings of Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, Vol. no. 5 – Population of the Land of Israel – Tel Aviv: Mitspeh Publishing, 1936 (identical contents to source 2).

4. Ben-Gurion, David. An Inquiry into the Origins of the Fellahin. Tel Aviv: Khermon Publishing, 1969.

5. Belkind, Israel. Arabs in the Land of Israel. Tel Aviv: Khermon Publishing, 1969.

6. Misinai, Tsvi. The Road Map to the Third Intifada – The roots and solution to the Problem of the Holy Land. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2006.

7. Yarden, Elon. A Common Homeland Not a Disputed Territory. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2006. (Contains sources 4 and 5 as appendices).

8. Yarden, Elon. Zion in Justice Shall be Redeemed (An Alternative to the Oslo Accords). Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, Tel Aviv, 2002.

9. Misinai, Tsvi. Brother Shall Not Lift Sword Against Brother. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2007. (The book is a shortened version of source 6, written in a popular style).

10. Writings of Ber Borokhov, Volume 1. Kibbuts Meukhad Publishing, 1955.

11. Oral Telling of Samaritan Traditions, Yitskhak Ben Tsvi, A.B. Samaritan News, Volume 370-371, page 8, October 8, 1985.

12. מבנה ציבור בכפר יטא שבדרום הר חברון – יובל ברוך, רשות העתיקות ירושלים – מחקרי יהודה ושומרון תשנ"ט, כרך תשיעי. http://daat.ac.il/daat/israel/yehuda/mehkare-9-baruhl.PDF

13. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes M. F. Hammer, A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonne-Tamir PNAS (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, USA(, Volume 67, No. 12, pp 6769-6774, June 6, 2000. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

14. High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews Almut Nebel • Dvora Filon • Deborah A. Weiss • Michael Weale • Marina Faerman • Ariella Oppenheim • Mark G. Thomas Human Genetics, Volume 107, pp 630-641, 2000. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf

15. The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, and Ariella Oppenheim American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 69, pp 1095-1112, 2001. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1274378

16. Genetics of congenital deafness in the Palestinian population: multiple connection 26 alleles with shared origins in the Middle East. Shanin H, Walsh T, Sobe T, Lynch E, King MC, Avraham KB, Kanaan M. Human Genetics 110(3):284-9, Mar 2002. http://www.tau.ac.il/~karena/manuscriptspdf/2002/Shahin_et_al_2002.pdf

17. The Origin of Palestinians and Their Genetic Relatedness With Other Mediterranean Populations Antonio Arnaiz-Villena, Nagah Elaiwa, Carlos Silvera, Ahmed Rostom, Juan Moscoso, Eduardo Gómez-Casado, Luis Allende, Pilar Varela, and Jorge Martínez-Laso Human Immunology 62, 889-900 (2001) http://kinoko.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~dura...ness_With_Other_Mediterranean_Populations.pdf 18. Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians Robin McKie, science editor, The Observer, Sunday 25 November 2001 Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians | World news | The Observer 19. The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin Biology Direct Biology Direct | Full text | The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms 20. Bohm, David. Wholeness and the Implicate Order. Routledge, 198

 

[Roudy]

There are many other other people's such as the Kurds who have closer genetic links to the Jews.

If they are trying to link themselves by genes, Palestinians should go to the end of the line and take a number, compared to those guys.

 

[aris2chat]

Hey, I'm still new here, but I have to agree with aris' post earlier on. If the "Palestinians" are descendants of the ancient Israelites as amity claims, then the whole 'conflict' should be moot. This thread should be moot.

The prophecy is true and the Diaspora is over. All should be rejoicing, not fighting. If what amity says is true. However alas, it is not.

Epic fail amity.

In some arguments the "opposition" will use any argument and shift to a completely different theory as one fails. In a few weeks they will be back with the same hypothesis in a new dress.
Round and round we go. Instead of major issues some gnaw at minutia for days and weeks at a time. Evidence with links gets ignored but some scream for evidence and proof over and over. Ten tons smack in the face would still not be enough.

Enjoy the madness

 

[amity1844]

hi, someone asked me a legitimate question on the other thread. I too think they should be merged, that would be great. I am a new forum person and sometimes don't know how to do things technically. The second thread was just to post the citations to the studies.

I now have the complete bibliography on this subject, so here it is:
1. Ben-Gurion, David & Ben-Zvi, Yitzhak. The Land of Israel in the Past and in the Present. The Yiddish version, New York, 1918.
2. Ben-Zvi, Yitzhak. Populations of Our Land. Warsaw: The Labor Committee of "Brit Hanoar" and the World Khaluts Center, 1932.
3. Writings of Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, Vol. no. 5 – Population of the Land of Israel – Tel Aviv: Mitspeh Publishing, 1936 (identical contents to source 2).
4. Ben-Gurion, David. An Inquiry into the Origins of the Fellahin. Tel Aviv: Khermon Publishing, 1969.
5. Belkind, Israel. Arabs in the Land of Israel. Tel Aviv: Khermon Publishing, 1969.
6. Misinai, Tsvi. The Road Map to the Third Intifada – The roots and solution to the Problem of the Holy Land. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2006.
7. Yarden, Elon. A Common Homeland Not a Disputed Territory. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2006. (Contains sources 4 and 5 as appendices).
8. Yarden, Elon. Zion in Justice Shall be Redeemed (An Alternative to the Oslo Accords). Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, Tel Aviv, 2002.
9. Misinai, Tsvi. Brother Shall Not Lift Sword Against Brother. Tel Aviv: Liad Publishing, 2007. (The book is a shortened version of source 6, written in a popular style).
10. Writings of Ber Borokhov, Volume 1. Kibbuts Meukhad Publishing, 1955.
11. Oral Telling of Samaritan Traditions, Yitskhak Ben Tsvi, A.B. Samaritan News, Volume 370-371, page 8, October 8, 1985.
12. מבנה ציבור בכפר יטא שבדרום הר חברון – יובל ברוך, רשות העתיקות ירושלים – מחקרי יהודה ושומרון תשנ"ט, כרך תשיעי. http://daat.ac.il/daat/israel/yehuda/mehkare-9-baruhl.PDF
13. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes M. F. Hammer, A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonne-Tamir PNAS (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, USA(, Volume 67, No. 12, pp 6769-6774, June 6, 2000. http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/12/6769#FN152
14. High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews Almut Nebel • Dvora Filon • Deborah A. Weiss • Michael Weale • Marina Faerman • Ariella Oppenheim • Mark G. Thomas Human Genetics, Volume 107, pp 630-641, 2000. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf
15. The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, and Ariella Oppenheim American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 69, pp 1095-1112, 2001. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1274378
16. Genetics of congenital deafness in the Palestinian population: multiple connection 26 alleles with shared origins in the Middle East. Shanin H, Walsh T, Sobe T, Lynch E, King MC, Avraham KB, Kanaan M. Human Genetics 110(3):284-9, Mar 2002. http://www.tau.ac.il/~karena/manuscriptspdf/2002/Shahin_et_al_2002.pdf
17. The Origin of Palestinians and Their Genetic Relatedness With Other Mediterranean Populations Antonio Arnaiz-Villena, Nagah Elaiwa, Carlos Silvera, Ahmed Rostom, Juan Moscoso, Eduardo Gómez-Casado, Luis Allende, Pilar Varela, and Jorge Martínez-Laso Human Immunology 62, 889-900 (2001) http://kinoko.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~dura...ness_With_Other_Mediterranean_Populations.pdf
18. Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians Robin McKie, science editor, The Observer, Sunday 25 November 2001 Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians | World news | The Observer
19. The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin Biology Direct Biology Direct | Full text | The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms
20. Bohm, David. Wholeness and the Implicate Order. Routledge, 198

 

[aris2chat]

Jews share more common genes with Kurds and people who live in the Caucasus mountains, so your study is meaningless. You will find "common genes" between all races and ethnicities, that is what the human race is all about.

As you know the prophet of Islam committed genocide on the ancient Jews of Medina, and took their women as slaves. The terrorist prophet even had a Jewish wife as a result of this massacre he committed. So there's the source of your "Jewish genes", as a result of Muslim genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Since the previous post was entirely concerned with the Y chromosome, the reference regarding the Jews of Medina is irrelevant. The survivors were all women and, therefore, had no Y chromosomes.

Nope, there were other Jewish tribes that were spared. That is, those that submitted to the sword of Islam. Read all about it. And we don't really know if Mohammad killed all the Jewish men of Medina, although he was certainly capable of committing these kinds of atrocities. Such a kind benevolent "prophet". LOL

If I remember correctly......600 men, and one woman, were beheaded. Children were not killed

 

[Coyote]

Let's get back to the topic kiddos...

"Zone 2": Political Forum / Israel and Palestine Forum / Race Relations/Racism Forum / Religion & Ethics Forum: Each post must contain content relevant to the thread subject, in addition to any flame. No trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads.

 

[Roudy]

Since the previous post was entirely concerned with the Y chromosome, the reference regarding the Jews of Medina is irrelevant. The survivors were all women and, therefore, had no Y chromosomes.

Nope, there were other Jewish tribes that were spared. That is, those that submitted to the sword of Islam. Read all about it. And we don't really know if Mohammad killed all the Jewish men of Medina, although he was certainly capable of committing these kinds of atrocities. Such a kind benevolent "prophet". LOL

If I remember correctly......600 men, and one woman, were beheaded. Children were not killed

There were many other Jewish tribes in the Arabian peninsula, some of which were spared because the terrorist bully forced them to submit to the sword of Islam. A big chunk of a Jewish genes that mixed with the Arabs should have come from Mohammad's raids and invasions.

Here are the various tubes which Muhammad and his followers either killed, forced to convert to Islam, or forcibly removed from their homes.

Ethnic cleansing, anyone?

Jewish tribes of Arabia

The Jewish tribes of Arabia were ethnic groups professing the Jewish faith that inhabited the Arabian Peninsula before and during the advent of Islam. It is not always clear whether they were originally Israelite in ancestry, genealogically Arab tribes that converted to Judaism, or a mixture of both. In Islamic tradition the Jewish tribes of the Hejaz were seen as the offspring of the ancient Israelites.[1] According to Muslim sources, they spoke a language other than Arabic, which Al-Tabari claims was Persian. This implies they were connected to the major Jewish center in Babylon.[2] Certain Jewish traditions records the existence of nomadic tribes such as the Rechabites that converted to Judaism in antiquity.

Tribes

Some of the Jewish tribes of Arabia historically attested include:

Banu Aws[3][4] fled Syria under Ghassanid rule, then fled Yathrib (presently known as Medina), and after expulsion by Muhammed, back to Syria
Banu Harith
Banu Jusham
Banu Najjar
Banu Qaynuqa
Banu Sa'ida[3][4]
Banu Shutayba[3][4]
Banu Kinanah[3][4]
Banu Yar'ak ba'si[3][4]
Jafna Clan of the Banu Thal'aba who were exiled members of the Banu Ghassan - while both tribes were not Jewish, they did have Jewish members; whereas the Jafna Clan was solely Jewish[3][4][5][unreliable source?]
Banu Zaura[6]
Banu Zurayq[3][4] In Islamic lore, Labid ben Asam was a Jewish Jinn (Demon) who cast a spell on Prophet Mohammed that prevented Prophet Mohammed from having sexual relations with his wives[7]—thus no male offspring. Prophet Muhammad actually did have male offspring, although none of them survived more than a few years of age.
Banu Quda'a — Himyarite tribe of converts to Sadducee Judaism[8]
Banu Qurayza — sub-clan of the al-Kāhinān, located in Yathrib(Medina), "principal family" fled Syria under Ghassanid rule, then fled Medina, after expulsion by Prophet Muhammed, back to Syria
Banu Nadir — sub-clan of the al-Kāhinān, located in Yathrib(Medina)
Banu Juw — sub-clan of the Banu Qaynuqa, Fled to North Africa.
History of immigration

 

[Indeependent]

Let's see...
If my brother was a serial killer would I want him next door?
Ummmm..................Nope!

 

[amity1844]

Actually, I read something interesting today. Apparently there were very few "forced conversions" simply because there could be no taxation once conversion took place. So to fund continued conquest, the conquered peoples needed to NOT be converted. And I suppose that explains why the process in Palestine was so gradual.

 

[Sally]

Actually, I read something interesting today. Apparently there were very few "forced conversions" simply because there could be no taxation once conversion took place. So to fund continued conquest, the conquered peoples needed to NOT be converted. And I suppose that explains why the process in Palestine was so gradual.

You don't say???

The Jews in Israel took no one's land

Jews to no one's land

 

[amity1844]

You don't say???

The Jews in Israel took no one's land

Jews to no one's land

What are you talking about? I am talking about the conversion of Jews to Islam over the span of 2 millennia. What does that have to do with land?

 

[amity1844]

There are many other other people's such as the Kurds who have closer genetic links to the Jews.

If they are trying to link themselves by genes, Palestinians should go to the end of the line and take a number, compared to those guys.

If you read, see that both Israelis and Palestinians are descended from Kurds .... uh, that would be Abraham and other Hebrews.

 

[amity1844]

Let's see...
If my brother was a serial killer would I want him next door?
Ummmm..................Nope!

What you want shouldn't matter. You don't get a vote on whether indigenous people are allowed to live in their own land. And they don't have to do anything to deserve that, either. I might be a so-and-so, but I have the right to live in the house I own, and my neighbors have nothing to say about it.

 

[teddyearp]

Actually, I read something interesting today. Apparently there were very few "forced conversions" simply because there could be no taxation once conversion took place. So to fund continued conquest, the conquered peoples needed to NOT be converted. And I suppose that explains why the process in Palestine was so gradual.

You don't say???

The Jews in Israel took no one's land

<url snipped>

Sally, thank you for the link providing a great summary of the situation. Does anyone know where we can find more evidence that the Arab states did in fact urge the Arabs living in the land to flee pursuant to the supposed quick destruction of the Jews/Israelites?

And I will echo what everyone else has said, and the link provided by Sally stated. Why are we talking about the genetics of a people who doesn't really exist? They are made up. Recently.

 

[Phoenall]

Let's see...
If my brother was a serial killer would I want him next door?
Ummmm..................Nope!

What you want shouldn't matter. You don't get a vote on whether indigenous people are allowed to live in their own land. And they don't have to do anything to deserve that, either. I might be a so-and-so, but I have the right to live in the house I own, and my neighbors have nothing to say about it.

If they are hostile to the government you do, and the Palestinians are hostile to the Israeli government. So under International law they have 3 options.
Summary execution

internment for life

eviction


Time for you to decide which is the best solution ?

 

[Phoenall]

You don't say???

The Jews in Israel took no one's land

Jews to no one's land

What are you talking about? I am talking about the conversion of Jews to Islam over the span of 2 millennia. What does that have to do with land?

So islam was invented by Mohamed 630 years before he was even born. Now either you are a brainwashed idiot or god had a hand in the matter.

A lot as soon as they converted they lost the right to live on Jewish land

 

[Roudy]

There are many other other people's such as the Kurds who have closer genetic links to the Jews.

If they are trying to link themselves by genes, Palestinians should go to the end of the line and take a number, compared to those guys.

If you read, see that both Israelis and Palestinians are descended from Kurds .... uh, that would be Abraham and other Hebrews.

Ha ha ha ha. Palestinians descended from the Kurds? Ho ho ho! Now you're totally making shit up.

Palestinians are Arabs, plain and simple. They have about as much to do with the Kurds as do the other Arabs.

 

[Roudy]

Actually, I read something interesting today. Apparently there were very few "forced conversions" simply because there could be no taxation once conversion took place. So to fund continued conquest, the conquered peoples needed to NOT be converted. And I suppose that explains why the process in Palestine was so gradual.

What are you blabbering now, you ignorant idiot? Jews never converted unless forced, and Jerusalem was invaded by Muslims and Christians several times throughout history. In fact the war between Islam and Christianity throughout history usually revolved around the conquest of Jerusalem.

Go read some more, perhaps at a local adult night school where you can complete your education.