Genetic studies on Palestinians and Israelis

[amity1844]

What are you blabbering now, you ignorant idiot? Jews never converted unless forced, and Jerusalem was invaded by Muslims and Christians several times throughout history. In fact the war between Islam and Christianity throughout history usually revolved around the conquest of Jerusalem.

Go read some more, perhaps at a local adult night school where you can complete your education.

That's not correct, many Jews have chosen to convert over the millennia. And there is one religious philosophy that MOST Jews have defected to in fact, and that is secularism.

By the way, did you know that when Jerusalem was captured by the Crusaders (I think this was the second crusade), they ATE the inhabitants?!?!? Yes, Muslim and Jewish and even a few Christians, they ATE them! I used to hear this when I was in the Middle East and thought it was just empty propaganda, but when I took history in college, OMG, it turned out to be true.

 

[aris2chat]

Actually, I read something interesting today. Apparently there were very few "forced conversions" simply because there could be no taxation once conversion took place. So to fund continued conquest, the conquered peoples needed to NOT be converted. And I suppose that explains why the process in Palestine was so gradual.

You don't say???

The Jews in Israel took no one's land

Jews to no one's land

there was a jewish kingdom in arabia for around 100 year.
jews were forced to leave, convert or pay the jizyah.
Every time jews are forced from someplace, much of their goods/wealth is lost.
Jews were forced out of their land several times, but the greatest loss was after the jewish revolts. Jews have aways been tied to the land, to their ancient homeland.

 

[amity1844]

there was a jewish kingdom in arabia for around 100 year.

No dispute here.

jews were forced to leave, convert or pay the jizyah.

Yes, this is true too (are you finally starting to deal in truth, Aris?) Some of the tax went into national coffers to cover general expenses like roads, military, whatever. The rest went to cover the expenses of the separate Jewish government, for Jews just like Christians had their own "millet." I am not going to bother to defend the Ottomans because they were rotten so and sos who occupied Arab lands for hundreds of years and kept them down.

Every time jews are forced from someplace, much of their goods/wealth is lost.

Historically true, looking at Spain in 1492, England at several different points over the centuries, Germany frequently, and various other places across Europe. This is why Jews entered fields like gemstones, banking, etc. as a way of keeping their wealth in liquid form so they could escape with it at a moment's notice. This also made them rather indispensable to European leaders in the era before modern nation states, when they wanted someone to bankroll their exploits!
Although there are surely lunatics in every nation, it was rarely the case in the Muslim Middle East. The history is a very different picture and Arab history is full of stories of very well known Jews from the middle ages, which was a time of flourishing in the Arab world. Jews made contributions to Arab culture consisting of everything from science to literature. so we can well believe they were in much better shape there than in Europe.

Jews were forced out of their land several times, but the greatest loss was after the jewish revolts. Jews have aways been tied to the land, to their ancient homeland.

Very much agreed, yes. I think your big mistake is in believing that Palestinians are any less tied to the land. That is the miscalculation that bites you in the butt.

And now this thread is thoroughly off topic. Please start a new topic about anti-Semitism. i am sure we could all profit from it.

 

[Roudy]

What are you blabbering now, you ignorant idiot? Jews never converted unless forced, and Jerusalem was invaded by Muslims and Christians several times throughout history. In fact the war between Islam and Christianity throughout history usually revolved around the conquest of Jerusalem.

Go read some more, perhaps at a local adult night school where you can complete your education.

That's not correct, many Jews have chosen to convert over the millennia. And there is one religious philosophy that MOST Jews have defected to in fact, and that is secularism.

By the way, did you know that when Jerusalem was captured by the Crusaders (I think this was the second crusade), they ATE the inhabitants?!?!? Yes, Muslim and Jewish and even a few Christians, they ATE them! I used to hear this when I was in the Middle East and thought it was just empty propaganda, but when I took history in college, OMG, it turned out to be true.

I never heard the Crusaders ate anybody. But the crusades were started to free lands that Muslims had invaded. We are talking about the medieval ages, so Muslims did not fall short of barbarism, don't worry about that, convert to Islam.

Jews as a group, never willingly converted to any religion, that is not how things happened in ancient times. If fact you were not considered a Jew and an outcast, unless your mother was born a Jew, thus making marriage to other faiths impossible. In other words, NO CONVERSIONS FROM OTHER FAITHS ALLOWED. This law has lasted until the late in the 20th century and has only recently changed in some reform synagogues.

Jerusalem was always the grand prize between the crusaders and Jihadists, and the Jews were always stuck between these these two warring faiths. Like I said go complete your education before you make a total fool of yourself here.

 

[Roudy]

there was a jewish kingdom in arabia for around 100 year.

No dispute here.

jews were forced to leave, convert or pay the jizyah.

Yes, this is true too (are you finally starting to deal in truth, Aris?) Some of the tax went into national coffers to cover general expenses like roads, military, whatever. The rest went to cover the expenses of the separate Jewish government, for Jews just like Christians had their own "millet." I am not going to bother to defend the Ottomans because they were rotten so and sos who occupied Arab lands for hundreds of years and kept them down.

Every time jews are forced from someplace, much of their goods/wealth is lost.

Historically true, looking at Spain in 1492, England at several different points over the centuries, Germany frequently, and various other places across Europe. This is why Jews entered fields like gemstones, banking, etc. as a way of keeping their wealth in liquid form so they could escape with it at a moment's notice. This also made them rather indispensable to European leaders in the era before modern nation states, when they wanted someone to bankroll their exploits!
Although there are surely lunatics in every nation, it was rarely the case in the Muslim Middle East. The history is a very different picture and Arab history is full of stories of very well known Jews from the middle ages, which was a time of flourishing in the Arab world. Jews made contributions to Arab culture consisting of everything from science to literature. so we can well believe they were in much better shape there than in Europe.

Jews were forced out of their land several times, but the greatest loss was after the jewish revolts. Jews have aways been tied to the land, to their ancient homeland.

Very much agreed, yes. I think your big mistake is in believing that Palestinians are any less tied to the land. That is the miscalculation that bites you in the butt.

And now this thread is thoroughly off topic. Please start a new topic about anti-Semitism. i am sure we could all profit from it.

Arabs were good with the Jews as Long as they persecuted and subjugated them. Why don't you speak to a Jew who was born and raised in an Arab country? There are many of them from spread all over the world that have fled the savages.

Iran was a tolerant nation to the Jews until the filth of Islam invaded and shoved Arab religion and culture down their throats. So if Iranians are tolerant and friends with the Jewish people it is because of their culture and DESPITE Islam's teachings.

 

[amity1844]

I never heard the Crusaders ate anybody. But the crusades were started to free lands that Muslims had invaded. We are talking about the medieval ages, so Muslims did not fall short of barbarism, don't worry about that, convert to Islam.

You may find some record of cannibalism among Muslims, dunno, I never heard of it.
But YES, bless us all, Roudy, the Crusaders did eat the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I was totally blown away by this, too. Levantine Arabs still talk about it and justifiably think we are a bit barbaric because of it. When I lived there I secretly assumed it was just the West getting a bad rap, but NOOOO... it is very true. I found one reference in Syria:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Ma%27arra

but the big event was in Jerusalem. Because I want to post something on camps in Lebanon I will have to maybe leave this for another time.

NO CONVERSIONS FROM OTHER FAITHS ALLOWED.

Except for Ruth and a few thousand others just in the Old Testament, Roudy! There have been so many conversions that modern European Jews apparently have less genetic continuity with ancient Jews than modern Palestinians do!

Jerusalem was always the grand prize between the crusaders and Jihadists, and the Jews were always stuck between these these two warring faiths. Like I said go complete your education before you make a total fool of yourself here.

I think Jews were pretty well off under Muslim rule. But your point about the Crusades can hardly be exaggerated, Roudy. It was gosh-awful for everybody.

my education can hardly be improved up, frankly. Ivy league all da way!

 

[amity1844]

Actually, I read something interesting today. Apparently there were very few "forced conversions" simply because there could be no taxation once conversion took place. So to fund continued conquest, the conquered peoples needed to NOT be converted. And I suppose that explains why the process in Palestine was so gradual.

What are you blabbering now, you ignorant idiot? Jews never converted unless forced, and Jerusalem was invaded by Muslims and Christians several times throughout history. In fact the war between Islam and Christianity throughout history usually revolved around the conquest of Jerusalem.

Go read some more, perhaps at a local adult night school where you can complete your education.

Read it in the Cambridge History, Roudy.... you lose.

 

[Roudy]

I never heard the Crusaders ate anybody. But the crusades were started to free lands that Muslims had invaded. We are talking about the medieval ages, so Muslims did not fall short of barbarism, don't worry about that, convert to Islam.

You may find some record of cannibalism among Muslims, dunno, I never heard of it.
But YES, bless us all, Roudy, the Crusaders did eat the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I was totally blown away by this, too. Levantine Arabs still talk about it and justifiably think we are a bit barbaric because of it. When I lived there I secretly assumed it was just the West getting a bad rap, but NOOOO... it is very true. I found one reference in Syria:

Maarrat al-Nu'man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but the big event was in Jerusalem. Because I want to post something on camps in Lebanon I will have to maybe leave this for another time.

NO CONVERSIONS FROM OTHER FAITHS ALLOWED.

Except for Ruth and a few thousand others just in the Old Testament, Roudy! There have been so many conversions that modern European Jews apparently have less genetic continuity with ancient Jews than modern Palestinians do!

Jerusalem was always the grand prize between the crusaders and Jihadists, and the Jews were always stuck between these these two warring faiths. Like I said go complete your education before you make a total fool of yourself here.

I think Jews were pretty well off under Muslim rule. But your point about the Crusades can hardly be exaggerated, Roudy. It was gosh-awful for everybody.

my education can hardly be improved up, frankly. Ivy league all da way!

Going by your theory then, since most of the current Israeli population is comprised of Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews, or descendants of, your whole argument gets flushed down.

Ivy League my ass.

 

[Roudy]

Actually, I read something interesting today. Apparently there were very few "forced conversions" simply because there could be no taxation once conversion took place. So to fund continued conquest, the conquered peoples needed to NOT be converted. And I suppose that explains why the process in Palestine was so gradual.

What are you blabbering now, you ignorant idiot? Jews never converted unless forced, and Jerusalem was invaded by Muslims and Christians several times throughout history. In fact the war between Islam and Christianity throughout history usually revolved around the conquest of Jerusalem.

Go read some more, perhaps at a local adult night school where you can complete your education.

Read it in the Cambridge History, Roudy.... you lose.

Link?

 

[amity1844]

What are you blabbering now, you ignorant idiot? Jews never converted unless forced, and Jerusalem was invaded by Muslims and Christians several times throughout history. In fact the war between Islam and Christianity throughout history usually revolved around the conquest of Jerusalem.

Go read some more, perhaps at a local adult night school where you can complete your education.

Read it in the Cambridge History, Roudy.... you lose.

Link?

Did you look at the one I provided yet? I have some other research to do and will get back to you about cannibalism in Jerusalem in a week or so.

 

[Roudy]

Read it in the Cambridge History, Roudy.... you lose.

Link?

Did you look at the one I provided yet? I have some other research to do and will get back to you about cannibalism in Jerusalem in a week or so.

Ya okay the Palestinians are more Jewish than the Jews. Whatever. The shit you terrorist lovers promote is funny and pathetic at the same time.

Show me the proof that Jews converted to other faiths. If anything, the Jewish faith is known to be very insular and not proselytize, you ignorant moron. Everybody knows this as a fact. Maybe they didn't teach you in that Ivy League school in Gaza.

 

[aris2chat]

cannibalism in Jerusalem ..................

70AD because of the Romans.

 

[Roudy]

cannibalism in Jerusalem ..................

70AD because of the Romans.

Ha ha ha. Our Ivy League graduate thinks there were Muslims back in 70 AD in Jerusalem, for the Romans to eat.

Was the Ivy League school located in Kabul or perhaps Karachi? OMG.

 

[amity1844]

I have known some Mizrahim over the years, they are pretty much the outcasts of Israel, unfortunately, and I think they would have been better off in the countries they came from, even though there was some backlash, yes, and would be even more now. The Mizrahim I knew were not thrilled about being in Israel, for sure.

cannibalism in 70AD??? where did you get that?

 

[Roudy]

I have known some Mizrahim over the years, they are pretty much the outcasts of Israel, unfortunately, and I think they would have been better off in the countries they came from, even though there was some backlash, yes, and would be even more now. The Mizrahim I knew were not thrilled about being in Israel, for sure.

cannibalism in 70AD??? where did you get that?

Ha ha ha over 55% of Israeli Jews are "outcasts". Then you don't know Mizrahim. They fled the Arab savages with the clothes on their backs, and those that didn't got killed. They didn't whine about it, and built new successful lives in countries around the world, including in Israel. These are people that had lived in the region for thousands of years since the destruction of the first and second temples in Jerusalem. And all they have are stories of being persecuted and living as second class citizens. For that reason Mizrahim can be the the most ardent Zionists you can find. They lived among and experienced the savagery of the Arabs and know first hand of their mentality. That's why many of Israel's top military leaders ie Shaul Mofaz have been Mizrahi or Sephardic Jews.

Like I said, you display your ignorance and expose your lies every time you post.

 

[amity1844]

Israeli prisons are full of Mizrahim. More Mizrahim than Arabs, actually. They are not overwhelmingly successful, they are despised. I was finally convinced of Israeli racism when I heard Ashkenazim talk about Mizrahim. They are victims of everything that happens to the underclass in any modern society. They are drug addicts, prostitutes, thieves, gang members, in far greater numbers than anyone else in Israeli society. That is not to blame the Mizrahim, this is the society they are in.

 

[Roudy]

Israeli prisons are full of Mizrahim. More Mizrahim than Arabs, actually. They are not overwhelmingly successful, they are despised. I was finally convinced of Israeli racism when I heard Ashkenazim talk about Mizrahim. They are victims of everything that happens to the underclass in any modern society. They are drug addicts, prostitutes, thieves, gang members, in far greater numbers than anyone else in Israeli society. That is not to blame the Mizrahim, this is the society they are in.

Bullshit. Like I said, currently, a majority of Israelis are Mizrahis or descendants of. Non of what you say is even remotely true, as usual. There may have been a short period during the first migrations 60 years ago, where obtaining housing was difficult for the flood of escapees from Arab countries. I have been to Israel over nine times and lived there over a year and didn't notice any of the lies you just promoted. In fact the Iranian Jews, Iraqis, Morocccans are known to be the richest and most successful.

You are an idiot who doesn't even know how to lie.

 

[amity1844]

Go check it out, Roudy ... prisons in Israel...

Unfortunately for you, everything I am saying is true. If it isn't and I find out about it, I will admit my error.

The majority may now be Mizrahim, but they are still a disadvantaged underclass and largely despised by Ashkenazis and Sephardim, too.

 

[aris2chat]

I have known some Mizrahim over the years, they are pretty much the outcasts of Israel, unfortunately, and I think they would have been better off in the countries they came from, even though there was some backlash, yes, and would be even more now. The Mizrahim I knew were not thrilled about being in Israel, for sure.

cannibalism in 70AD??? where did you get that?

I enjoy history, I grew up as part of history. Surprised you are not aware of the Siege of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70AD. It was considered a great tribulation.

Before 1948 jews lived in lebanon and syria in relative peace. Africa and the british mandate were far more abusive. After 1970, jews began leaving in large numbers from both. I expect with the Syria civil war the last pockets of jews have fled the country. Like Lebanon there might be a handful who could not leave and taken refuge with christians, they with the ISIS, they are not safe either.

 

[MHunterB]

You don't say???

The Jews in Israel took no one's land

Jews to no one's land

What are you talking about? I am talking about the conversion of Jews to Islam over the span of 2 millennia. What does that have to do with land?

Fascinating. According to you, who've repeatedly insisted you're smarter, better-informed and more reasonable than every other poster on this thread - there were Jews converting to Islam for six hundred some years *before* Muhammad.

Yanno, when people who tout themselves as being (more of) an 'authority' on a topic make such blatant and egregious errors of fact, it leaches away their credibility.