Zincwarrior
Platinum Member
- Nov 18, 2021
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It's not hard. Just go with what Jesus is reported to have said. Not Paul, not the Old Testament, just what the Big Guy said.
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I would like you to present the Hebrew theme. I started you out. The setting is a flood that took many lives. The Hebrews thought their behavior brought destruction to them. Specifically and according to their own story, what behavior was ascribed to their account of the flood.Actually, almost all flood stories have the same theme... Man pisses off God (or Gods) and gods rain down floods.
Guess what, no difference other than the one you want to assign. What is the theme?The problem you have is reconciling a bronze age diety with a modern version...
I would like you to present the Hebrew theme. I started you out. The setting is a flood that took many lives. The Hebrews thought their behavior brought destruction to them. Specifically and according to their own story, what behavior was ascribed to their account of the flood.
Many stories (including the flood) have the same or similar settings. It is the theme that changes. We can see theme differences in Gone With the Wind and Rifles for Watie. I am asking you for the theme in the Hebrew account of the great flood.
Guess what, no difference other than the one you want to assign. What is the theme?
We also know that the original Hebrew said nothing about the flood covering the planet. You read the water covered the Earth while the Hebrew says the water covered the earth. (They had another word for the entire world.)Except mine is based on science and reason. We KNOW there wasn't a world wide flood by studying half a dozen sciences - Geology, paleontology, biology, genetics.
What message did Jesus present that upset men in power?The God who came down to Earth as Jesus to suffer for man's sins (supposedly)
You do not have even a basic understanding of Bronze age beings--who were highly intelligent. They did not possess the knowledge we have today, true, but they appear to have been head and shoulders above us in philosophy.Now, this DOES make sense if you realize the guy who wrote Genesis was a bronze age Hebrew peasant who thought that everything he didn't understand was a God who constantly needed to be appeased,
Again, your perspective. Many people today are interested in what Old Testament stories, in their original language/culture, actually said. You don't happen to be one of them, and are actually delighted that you can use the English translation and modern culture for your own amusement.Now, modern churches like to downplay the awful stories of the bible
Yeah, no absurd drivel in a thread of absurd drivel.Serious comments only, not absurd drivel. Thanks.
We also know that the original Hebrew said nothing about the flood covering the planet. You read the water covered the Earth while the Hebrew says the water covered the earth. (They had another word for the entire world.)
The English translation does not do the original Hebrew justice. Another fact I have explained before. This fact and the fact about rain covering earth/soil hold no interest for you. Their story holds no interest for you. You want a story where God is the villain, and you continually write your own story about this. I have no interest in your story. I have great interest in theirs. They have a message for humanity both then and in the future. You want a story about God as villain.
What message did Jesus present that upset men in power?
You do not have even a basic understanding of Bronze age beings--who were highly intelligent. They did not possess the knowledge we have today, true, but they appear to have been head and shoulders above us in philosophy.
Before you laugh at their idea that human behavior affects the climate, take a look at today's humans running around claiming we are affecting it in our own time. We have nothing on Bronze age humans, do we, not when we go around squawking that human behavior is causing great disasters in today's weather fronts.
Again, your perspective. Many people today are interested in what Old Testament stories, in their original language/culture, actually said. You don't happen to be one of them, and are actually delighted that you can use the English translation and modern culture for your own amusement.
Haha, rightYeah, no absurd drivel in a thread of absurd drivel.
I did. You did not listen. You are not listening still. Perhaps you never will.I'm still waiting for one of you God-Botherers to tell me how God comes off as the good guy in that story.
I did. You did not listen. You are not listening still. Perhaps you never will.
Joe, long before the story was written people already had their picture of God. All loving. All good. Creator. Just. True. His people lived in a good world.
If people jump off of high places, gravity has them crashing back to earth. A simple law that affects all. Disrespect gravity, expect tragedy. The same with other laws. Disrespect love, goodness, justice, truth, the earth will turn on you. It is in its very design, built on goodness, built on love. Since this is God's creation, all that happens can rest on God and how/what He created.
The ancients knew and accepted God is nothing like us humans. Therefore, they used a literary technique we still use to this day: Personification. God is given emotions humans understand--even when humans understand that God is far beyond their emotion.
The Great Flood (or many great floods) are an example of how people saw the good earth turning against them. They believed while God was loving and forgiving, He was also just--and loving and forgiving can only go so far before it becomes injustice and a new start is needed.
Read the story again. The author begins with the people's behavior. Remember, no one was keeping a journal at that time. Their accounts are based upon reflections about a past event. The Hebrew author set the stage. The setting was the Great Flood. The question to be answered: What did humans do to cause God's good earth to turn on them? They compared their behavior at that time before the flood to the love, goodness, and justice of God. They judged themselves and found not God wanting--but themselves wanting. The Hebrew author focused on one particular wrong of the people. What was that specific wrong?
If the people's behavior could bring down justice in the form of a great flood, from what must they refrain from doing to avert another great disaster in the future? What, in our behavior, was the author warning everyone (past and present) about? What behavior modification did the author want us to learn from the flood?
Certainly, today we can say, "Oh! That type of behavior would never cause a flood!" Technically, I would agree with such a statement. However, our ancestors wanted us to see the harm it was causing in the community--harm as great as that flood. What harm were they bringing upon themselves and each other? How long can people bring on that harm before goodness rebels at the injustice, destroys it all so it all can be renewed?
All you have ever seen, Joe, and all you will ever care to see and learn is, "Villainous God. Don't believe in God." The whole Bible story has gone over your head your entire life. However, you are satisfied with the story you created, so what need is there to listen to the original author.