Fundamentals ?

[neurosport]

McCain once said "the fundamentals of our economy are still strong"

he then said by "fundamentals" he meant American people ...

so what are the REAL "fundamentals" of the economy ?

i know some of you morons think Dow Jones average is one. some ( Chris ) think that housing sales are one.

i want to hear more stupidity from you ! what are the fundamentals ?

how do YOU know the economy has a bright future ?

 

[hipeter924]

Well from an outsider perspective I can say a few things about what needs to be fixed:

1. The Healthcare system and the Education system are the no1 flaws of the US economy...this does not mean I support the socialist knock out plan put forward by Obama...but that the infrastructure in it is in crisis. I would think the way to solve the education system is to get employers to pour some cash into both...if they want educated graduates for their companies...doesn't it make sense they should help pay for it? As for healthcare...I have no idea.

2. Bureaucracy has to be cut to make the government more efficient and more effective...it should be quality over quantity. If you just cut out what you don't need like the top management I would see a massive amount of money being released for defence, education and healthcare without having to raise tax or blow out massive deficits.

Why I think the economy could have a bright future? I don't like Obama, he is a socialist that doesn't know what he is doing. But the good side of it is that he will bring out new ideas on both the Republican and Democrat sides about how to deal with the economy. This is why the economy has a bright future.

Now Obama may be a hard case for Republicans but at least he is prepared to listen...if the government just buckles down and looks over itself maybe by the time Obama's reign is over everyone will know the way forward. But I don't think there will be an economic recovery till Obama is out of office.

 

[JBeukema]

The economy has gotten ever weaker ever since the big-fed programs of post-WW2

think about it, it used to be a man w/ a high school education could make enough via physical labor to support his family

now, women have to work just so manny families can scrape by

real wealth of the average american has declined as the dollar has been devalued

America is no longer the breadbasket of the world or a leading industrial power

we are dependent on foreign (Muslim) oil for our survival....

it's a long, slow death

 

[editec]

McCain once said "the fundamentals of our economy are still strong"

Yeah...that's because McCain is a pampered idiot who never had to live in the economy most of us live in...he and his family are of the American military officer caste

he then said by "fundamentals" he meant American people ...

Yes he did. But he spoke not having a clue what the American people were dealing with.

so what are the REAL "fundamentals" of the economy ?

Same as every other economy...enough people making enough wealth to sustain their own lives.

i know some of you morons think Dow Jones average is one. some ( Chris ) think that housing sales are one.

Ye, Chris...they are morons, I quite agree.

i want to hear more stupidity from you ! what are the fundamentals ?

They think, I guess, one needs a degree in economics to really know.

how do YOU know the economy has a bright future ?

It's a faith based thing.

 

[Toro]

Nothing has changed in the fundamental characteristics of the American economy.

Economic growth is a function of productivity growth and population growth, but primarily the first one. Nothing has changed to suggest that Americans won't keep innovating and working.

 

[auditor0007]

The economy has gotten ever weaker ever since the big-fed programs of post-WW2

think about it, it used to be a man w/ a high school education could make enough via physical labor to support his family

now, women have to work just so manny families can scrape by

real wealth of the average american has declined as the dollar has been devalued

America is no longer the breadbasket of the world or a leading industrial power

we are dependent on foreign (Muslim) oil for our survival....

it's a long, slow death

I'm only going to address one issue here, that of women needing to work just so families can scrape by. That is actually not true. Things changed when women began going to work en masse. All of a sudden, a family needed a second car. Of course, with the woman working, nobody wants to come home from work, cook and clean up after dinner, so people began eating out more frequently. Of course, with women working, they needed better clothes, and they no longer had time to sew and fix old clothes or make their own. Then of course, with kids, they needed daycare. The list goes on and on and on.

Had women never entered the workforce as they did, and stayed at home raising the kids, families could still make it today on one income. Of course, society has changed, and women want more than just to stay at home making and raising babies. BTW, I am not making an argument here that women should have stayed home to begin with. I'm just pointing out that the choice for women to go to work changed the way we live our lives, and the new way costs a lot more money.

 

[neurosport]

Nothing has changed in the fundamental characteristics of the American economy.

Economic growth is a function of productivity growth and population growth, but primarily the first one. Nothing has changed to suggest that Americans won't keep innovating and working.

yes, productivity.

our productivity i am sure is much lower than that of Japanese yet we expect to enjoy higher living standards.

we cannot realistically expect to live better than the Japanese. Japanese are better at everything than we are. we can realistically expect to enjoy HALF of their living standard. everything beyond that is A BUBBLE.

the only way our productivity is going to rise is if we get rid of the government jobs, welfare, unions, all kinds of social-security type programs and release from prisons people who are there for non-violent crimes like smoking weed or having sex ( don't ask me why those are crimes, i am not a conservative )

if we do THAT then at best we will be able to hang in there with Japan and Germany. but we can't expect to be BEATING them. that was only a matter of them taking our green backed toilet paper.

it has to make it to your heads somehow that we Americans are not made of any kind of special meat. there is no reason why we should continue to live like Gods forever while the rest of the world is broke.

in Germany people don't drive automatic transmission because they can't afford to. in America people don't even know how to drive manual. funny because people drive German cars all over the world and nobody wants to drive American cars even in America. Does it seem fair ?

stop whining like little babies. we have it too good. we are the fattest nation in history.

 

[neurosport]

Well from an outsider perspective I can say a few things about what needs to be fixed:

1. The Healthcare system and the Education system are the no1 flaws of the US economy...this does not mean I support the socialist knock out plan put forward by Obama...but that the infrastructure in it is in crisis. I would think the way to solve the education system is to get employers to pour some cash into both...if they want educated graduates for their companies...doesn't it make sense they should help pay for it? As for healthcare...I have no idea.

2. Bureaucracy has to be cut to make the government more efficient and more effective...it should be quality over quantity. If you just cut out what you don't need like the top management I would see a massive amount of money being released for defence, education and healthcare without having to raise tax or blow out massive deficits.

Why I think the economy could have a bright future? I don't like Obama, he is a socialist that doesn't know what he is doing. But the good side of it is that he will bring out new ideas on both the Republican and Democrat sides about how to deal with the economy. This is why the economy has a bright future.

Now Obama may be a hard case for Republicans but at least he is prepared to listen...if the government just buckles down and looks over itself maybe by the time Obama's reign is over everyone will know the way forward. But I don't think there will be an economic recovery till Obama is out of office.

you failed to answer the question.

however i can tell you how education system can be easily fixed - IT HAS TO BE GOTTEN RID OF !

give the money to the kids. let them spend it on education any way they like - even if it means studying overseas.

the government has no business "educating" anybody. the government is the one that needs education. in the old times governments were educated using a guillotine.

but that was before governments got into the business of "educating" people. as soon as the governments got a hold of education revolutions stopped. that's because people are now completely brainwashed since childhood by their teachers.

wake up and smell the coffee !

 

[JBeukema]

Things changed when women began going to work en masse. All of a sudden, a family needed a second car. Of course, with the woman working, nobody wants to come home from work, cook and clean up after dinner, so people began eating out more frequently. Of course, with women working, they needed better clothes, and they no longer had time to sew and fix old clothes or make their own. Then of course, with kids, they needed daycare. The list goes on and on and on.

2 possibilities:
(A) Your model is flawed
(B) Women destroyed the economy by betraying their families and choosing a course of action harmful to themselves, their families, and their country

 

[auditor0007]

Things changed when women began going to work en masse. All of a sudden, a family needed a second car. Of course, with the woman working, nobody wants to come home from work, cook and clean up after dinner, so people began eating out more frequently. Of course, with women working, they needed better clothes, and they no longer had time to sew and fix old clothes or make their own. Then of course, with kids, they needed daycare. The list goes on and on and on.

2 possibilities:
(A) Your model is flawed
(B) Women destroyed the economy by betraying their families and choosing a course of action harmful to themselves, their families, and their country

How is it flawed? And how did women destroy the economy? They changed it along with the way we live our lives. But that does not equate to destroying it. The truth is if a family chooses to live the same type of life that most lived during the 50's, where the woman stayed at home raising the kids, and the family only had one car, and everyone didn't want every single toy available, then a family most likely could make it if the husband had a job paying a reasonable wage. Depending upon where one lives, many could make it on $30,000 to $40,000 per year.

 

[midcan5]

Easy question, gainful employment is the key and central component to any modern economy, ( I would add a social economic safety net but that may be going too far). One can look at any other piece whether it be the market, the financial institutions, the level of literacy, theory or no theory, and if people are working and able to work the rest is peripherally relevant only. While productivity is important and global competition throws sand in the engine, work and the ability to find work sooths over the rest. And I disagree that Americans are not as or more productive than others, I've been at this too long to believe that hokum.

Now comes the hard part, how to do that? Ideas?

CEPR - America Since 1980: A Right Turn Leading to a Dead End

"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well."

Tax cuts spur economic growth
The Idolatry of Ideology-Why Tax Cuts Hurt the Economy by Russ Beaton
Spending Cuts Vs. Tax Increases at the State Level, 10/30/01
The rich get rich because of their merit.

 

[JBeukema]

The truth is if a family chooses to live the same type of life that most lived during the 50's...

It's simply not feasible anymore

 

[HUGGY]

McCain once said "the fundamentals of our economy are still strong"

he then said by "fundamentals" he meant American people ...

so what are the REAL "fundamentals" of the economy ?

i know some of you morons think Dow Jones average is one. some ( Chris ) think that housing sales are one.

i want to hear more stupidity from you ! what are the fundamentals ?

how do YOU know the economy has a bright future ?

We are by (your) god american and we are the smartest creatures ever to walk this planet thank very much. The rest of the world looks up to us because we are rarely stuck on stupid. Once we make up our minds there is no stopping us.

 

[Toro]

our productivity i am sure is much lower than that of Japanese yet we expect to enjoy higher living standards.

No, American productivity has been higher than Japan's over the past 20 years.

I could find the data but am too lazy to do so at the moment. I have low productivity right now.

 

[neurosport]

our productivity i am sure is much lower than that of Japanese yet we expect to enjoy higher living standards.

No, American productivity has been higher than Japan's over the past 20 years.

I could find the data but am too lazy to do so at the moment. I have low productivity right now.

Data is subject to manipulation and interpretation.

Americans may be more productive on paper but less productive in actuality.

In actuality we all drive German and Japanese cars while Germans and Japanese don't drive ours. We also all have Japanese toys like cell phones, televisions, while i highly doubt too many people in Japan uses American ones.

How can we be more productive than them when everything we consume is PRODUCED by them ?

 

[hipeter924]

Well from an outsider perspective I can say a few things about what needs to be fixed:

1. The Healthcare system and the Education system are the no1 flaws of the US economy...this does not mean I support the socialist knock out plan put forward by Obama...but that the infrastructure in it is in crisis. I would think the way to solve the education system is to get employers to pour some cash into both...if they want educated graduates for their companies...doesn't it make sense they should help pay for it? As for healthcare...I have no idea.

2. Bureaucracy has to be cut to make the government more efficient and more effective...it should be quality over quantity. If you just cut out what you don't need like the top management I would see a massive amount of money being released for defence, education and healthcare without having to raise tax or blow out massive deficits.

Why I think the economy could have a bright future? I don't like Obama, he is a socialist that doesn't know what he is doing. But the good side of it is that he will bring out new ideas on both the Republican and Democrat sides about how to deal with the economy. This is why the economy has a bright future.

Now Obama may be a hard case for Republicans but at least he is prepared to listen...if the government just buckles down and looks over itself maybe by the time Obama's reign is over everyone will know the way forward. But I don't think there will be an economic recovery till Obama is out of office.

you failed to answer the question.

however i can tell you how education system can be easily fixed - IT HAS TO BE GOTTEN RID OF !

give the money to the kids. let them spend it on education any way they like - even if it means studying overseas.

the government has no business "educating" anybody. the government is the one that needs education. in the old times governments were educated using a guillotine.

but that was before governments got into the business of "educating" people. as soon as the governments got a hold of education revolutions stopped. that's because people are now completely brainwashed since childhood by their teachers.

wake up and smell the coffee !

Even as an anarcho-capitalist myself I wouldn't go that far. Its better to keep a good education in the US not send it off to some random place in Europe...and it doesn't necessarily have to be government funded.

 

[midcan5]

Data is subject to manipulation and interpretation.

Americans may be more productive on paper but less productive in actuality.

In actuality we all drive German and Japanese cars while Germans and Japanese don't drive ours. We also all have Japanese toys like cell phones, televisions, while i highly doubt too many people in Japan uses American ones.

Huh! You have one weird way of viewing economics. Why do people shop in walmart? Do you know? Why, if there is a half price sale, are the lines/aisles crowded? You figure it out yet. Cheap that is why. Why do Americans buy cheap foreign cars? Sorry, I gave away the answer. Why do Americans buy cheap foreign made toys/bicycles/electronics. Oh sorry, I'm helping you here. Your productivity comment is such BS I had to raise my feet.

Businesses and buyers don't usually look at the broader implications of their purchases, they look at what is considered a deal or the bottom line. The entire economy could collapse, but so long as cheap Chinese junk was available at walmart life would be good. Surely you are mature enough to know this.

Americans don't support their fellow country people, they support themselves. Can one imagine the European model or the Japanese support of 'the worker being important,' take hold here. It would be a sea change in attitude, I still see some praise Reagan et al and all he did was fire Americans and lower worker rights. Some even praise him for it as Chris Matthews did the other evening. He'll hear from me. lol

Productivity and Costs, First Quarter 2009, Preliminary

 

[neurosport]

Americans don't support their fellow country people, they support themselves.

last time you said this i got positive rep for calling you an idiot. the economy does not grow stronger when inefficient business is supported at the expense of efficient one. consumers determine which business is efficient by going for the cheap shit.

bro ... for the purposes of this discussion it doesn't matter WHY nobody buys American - what matters is nobody does.

you cannot tell me that we produce 10 times more than we sell. we produce as much ( or as little ) as we sell. since we don't sell it means we also don't produce.

how can we be "productive" if we don't "produce" ?

my point is, as always, that without production we don't have an economy - all we have is a bubble.