From an actual independent (me)

[jc456]

I can explain something to 10 people, the same exact way, and only 5 may get what I'm saying. My problem is, I don't know how to explain it to you.

I'm against Trump because of what Trump did. Not what he says. I agree with most of what Trump says. But very little of what he did.
Banning bump stocks, funding planned parenthood, spending. Trump was too progressive for me. I'm against 99% of the things progressives do. So why wouldn't I be against Trump too?
Being a conservative, and supporting Trump, would make me a party loyalist.


My concern isn't why they increased the size of government. It's the fact that they did it.


If Trumps actions were the same as his words, I'd support him a lot more.
He promised to balance the budget in 4 years. If he tried and failed, that would be one thing. But he didn't even try.
And again, what ever reason the GOP has when they bow down to democrats, I could care less. It's the fact that they bowed down to them.

"What you do means a whole lot more than anything you've got to say."

Trump didn’t write any legislation. Again, there are no independent senators except Bernie, LOL, in order to pass any policy changes what would he need to have? Congress? Just seeing what you know

 

[jc456]

If Trumps actions were the same as his words, I'd support him a lot more.
He promised to balance the budget in 4 years. If he tried and failed, that would be one thing. But he didn't even try.
And again, what ever reason the GOP has when they bow down to democrats, I could care less. It's the fact that they bowed down to them

So you even admit demofks never bow down to gopers. How would Trump get any legislation through?

 

[YoursTruly]

YoursTruly , Why did you love this post? JFK was never an independent, he was conservative. Wanted conservative policies, even said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". All demofks want today is what the country can do for them, 180 degrees off JFK. However, JFK was no independent. I'd vote for JFK in a second.

Because of his honesty. His articulate explanation of how and why he did what he did. And without a bunch of childish name calling. That's progress. And an example of how we should address each other. Because arguing and fighting (with party-line talking points) is useless.

 

[YoursTruly]

Trump didn’t write any legislation. Again, there are no independent senators except Bernie, LOL, in order to pass any policy changes what would he need to have? Congress? Just seeing what you know

It doesn't matter if he wrote it or not. If he approved it, signed it into law, then he's just as responsible for it as those who passed the bill. When you sign your name to something, you're a co-signer. You own it.
The problem with die hard Trump supporters is that they won't bash Trump for his progressive leanings. Same as the Biden supporters who won't even acknowledge his mistakes. (the border, Afghanistan, all the pork that went into the BBB plan or even the Covid relief money that was spent on corporations and special interest)

 

[jc456]

Because of his honesty. His articulate explanation of how and why he did what he did. And without a bunch of childish name calling. That's progress. And an example of how we should address each other. Because arguing and fighting (with party-line talking points) is useless.

He died because?

 

[jc456]

It doesn't matter if he wrote it or not. If he approved it, signed it into law, then he's just as responsible for it as those who passed the bill.

So he would have got zero done! Right? How informed are you?

 

[YoursTruly]

So you even admit demofks never bow down to gopers. How would Trump get any legislation through?

Pass bad legislation into office is just that. Who the hell wants bad legislation becoming law? Why would anyone want that? Party loyalist?
Trump wasn't a fucking trojan horse for conservatives. He was just a progressive politician with a republican label.

 

[whitehall]

So-called "independents" these days are usually hard core democrats who had enough of Biden.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Our political system is broken, because it's flawed to begin with. It incentivizes and rewards the cynical, dishonest, craven, tribal behavior that we're seeing get worse and worse.

Unless and until we change the system, we keep bending over for it. This is a self-inflicted wound.

#ForwardParty

The top and bottom of it is, people lean one way or the other and vote for one party or the other. A third party doesn't get a look in. And it doesn't matter which party you vote for, they just do what they want and spend billions undoing the previous 4 to 8 years.

And the narrative is, always fight who's in to try and kick them out. And when someone takes over, someone else fights who's in to try and kick them out.

I'm UK Brit and we experience a similar problem.

 

[Mac1958]

So-called "independents" these days are usually hard core democrats who had enough of Biden.

There are plenty of people in between the two ridiculous ends of the spectrum.

The two ends don't realize that, of course, because they've become so blind and tribal.

 

[YoursTruly]

He died because?

Because that's what he wanted to do. He thought it was the right decision to do so.
Like his useless tax cuts. Who in F approves tax cuts and then increases spending? Sound like something democrats would do. Especially when the tax bill eliminates a LOT of deductions that the working class counted on.

What a real tax cut looks like from a conservative perspective.

10% tax cut, 30% spending decreases. Add more deductions, not take away.

 

[Osiris-ODS]

I stopped being a party loyalist like 10 years ago. I've been a die hard democrat, die hard republican and libertarian. I've spewed the talking points in political arguments for my party. I've dug and researched for hours to try and prove the other side wrong. And I've ignored the things that were wrong with my party and done my best to the change the subject, when challenged. When I was a party loyalist, the "whataboutism" spewed regularly. Why? Because regardless of what party I was loyal to, there was still things wrong with my party. Things that I "overlooked." I had to overlook them, because I was a party loyalist.
Now that I'm not one, I can call out the wrongs with any party or any politician. I've called out Trump on his many lies, Pelosi on her lies and corrupt way she runs the house. McConnell, Ryan, Schumer and the rest of them. All with a clear conscious.
I've also praised Trump when he or the others, when they did or said something that I agreed with.
As a true independent, and an actual conservative, I must say, I wished you party loyalist would just STFU. Y'all sound retarded. The left going on and on and on about Trump. And the right going on and on about the stolen election. Even if it was stolen, it's done. It's over with and nothing is going to change it now.
When both sides (voters.. You people) realize that the ONLY arguments that need to be taking place, are you against your own parties, or both, because they refuse to do what's right for the vast majority of "We the people." Things like Pelosi not allowing your congressman to introduce amendments on the house floor, without first going through committee. (Which is code for lobbyist approval). Also all the spending that goes on inside these bills that are never made public. We only get a glimpse at the BS spending, when a politician wants to make a point about the other party. Things like spending for "Gender studies in Pakistan." Huge funding to corporations or special interest in a Covid relief bill or stimulus package

And please, for the love of god, when a party member exposes something corrupt within their own party, don't rag on them for making the party look bad. Praise them for trying to make the party better. (IE Tulsi Gabbard, Ron Paul, Justin Amash, Dennis Kucinich). Those people, if they ran the party, would actually bring honesty and transparency to their parties. Which would give you people a lot less to argue and fight about.

The right and the left created this retarded system. It's by design to:
1. Keep the voters arguing amongst themselves
2. Stay in power.
3. Allow those with the money to dictate legislation. Legislation that the vast majority of "we the people" would object to. (IE bank bailouts, foreign interventions, spending, and just about everything else)

Party loyalty is something that we'd expect to go on in places like Russia. But it goes on right here. People choosing their party and their talking points over their family and friends. Fact: The R & D's want their voters fighting with each other because they know that if all got along, we'd go against them.

Taken from a song I like:

1. Train the people only to consume
2. Influence adults with the news
3. Indoctrinate the children through the schools and the music and the phones and apps that they use.
4. Separate the right from the left.
5. Separate the white from the black.
6. Separate the rich from the poor. Use religion and equality to separate them more.
7. Fabricate a problem made of lies.
8. Put it on the news every night.
9. When people start to fight and divide, take control. This is called "situational design."

"Separate the white from the black”

The Supreme Court shot that down in Brown v. Board of Education.

 

[jc456]

Because that's what he wanted to do. He thought it was the right decision to do so.
Like his useless tax cuts. Who in F approves tax cuts and then increases spending? Sound like something democrats would do. Especially when the tax bill eliminates a LOT of deductions that the working class counted on.

What a real tax cut looks like from a conservative perspective.

10% tax cut, 30% spending decreases. Add more deductions, not take away.

Dude where’d you go? We were discussing jfk? Huh?

 

[YoursTruly]

The top and bottom of it is, people lean one way or the other and vote for one party or the other. A third party doesn't get a look in. And it doesn't matter which party you vote for, they just do what they want and spend billions undoing the previous 4 to 8 years.

And the narrative is, always fight who's in to try and kick them out. And when someone takes over, someone else fights who's in to try and kick them out.

I'm UK Brit and we experience a similar problem.

But as long as the two party's stay in power, even if they flip flop on the majority, then it doesn't even matter to them. I'm not sure about the UK, but over here, if a third party starts gaining tractions, the R & D's will join forces (through the media) to squash that 3rd party.
Then they'll go back to pretending to be enemies.

 

[jc456]

But as long as the two party's stay in power, even if they flip flop on the majority, then it doesn't even matter to them. I'm not sure about the UK, but over here, if a third party starts gaining tractions, the R & D's will join forces (through the media) to squash that 3rd party.
Then they'll go back to pretending to be enemies.

Again, how many independent’s are in Congress?

 

[YoursTruly]

"Separate the white from the black”

The Supreme Court shot that down in Brown v. Board of Education.

You missunderstood the context of "separate." I'm not talking about forced, government mandated segregation as it used to be. I'm talking about the propaganda used to make blacks and whites distrust each other. Groups like BLM and the KKK.

 

[YoursTruly]

Again, how many independent’s are in Congress?

I don't particularly know of any. Which is sort of the point.

 

[jc456]

I don't particularly know of any. Which is sort of the point.

So any independent president will need?

 

[Osiris-ODS]

You missunderstood the context of "separate." I'm not talking about forced, government mandated segregation as it used to be. I'm talking about the propaganda used to make blacks and whites distrust each other. Groups like BLM and the KKK.

I was just goofing, I understood what you meant. I should have included an emoji.

 

[YoursTruly]

Dude where’d you go? We were discussing jfk? Huh?

Yeah, sorry about that. I read it wrong. (Trying to eat and keep up with the conversation) I think I read it like "He did, why?"