From an actual independent (me)

[YoursTruly]

So any independent president will need?

The support of people who aren't party loyalist. Which isn't going to happen. For the simple fact that both parties only nominate party loyalist.
During the primary season, anyone who's not a party loyalist will be bashed by their party, ignored in the media (per their party leaders request). And it'll translate into those non conformist to drop out of the race.

That's how it's always been done. It works. So they (party leadership) won't be changing their strategy.

 

[jc456]

Yeah, sorry about that. I read it wrong. (Trying to eat and keep up with the conversation) I think I read it like "He did, why?"

He died, jfk, why? Also, why did the fbi lie?

 

[jc456]

The support of people who aren't party loyalist. Which isn't going to happen. For the simple fact that both parties only nominate party loyalist.
During the primary season, anyone who's not a party loyalist will be bashed by their party, ignored in the media (per their party leaders request). And it'll translate into those non conformist to drop out of the race.

That's how it's always been done. It works. So they (party leadership) won't be changing their strategy.

So curious, what would get done? Nothing? Completely useless president

 

[YoursTruly]

I was just goofing, I understood what you meant. I should have included an emoji.

Sorry man. I get like 10 serious quotes, and one not so serious one, and think it's serious. I'm a little slow sometimes. lol

 

[YoursTruly]

He died, jfk, why? Also, why did the fbi lie?

Who knows why he died. All we know are the conspiracy theories that go around. Which last count, I think there was like 5. The mob, the Russians, the Cubans, one crazy shooter and the Fed.

Lot's of people had plenty of reasons. Bankers for example. Kennedy, from what I understand, was going to side line the Federal Reserve and start printing US funds instead of borrowing from the fed. (For small business loans across the USA). You don't **** with the Fed. Period. End of story.

 

[john doe 101]

Now that I'm not one, I can call out the wrongs with any party or any politician.

You couldnt while you were supposedly members of the parties you mentioned? Your nothing but a political hack.

 

[YoursTruly]

So he would have got zero done! Right? How informed are you?

What did he get done? The wall? Nope. Locking Hillary up? Nope. He didn't even try. Did he balance the budget? Nope. He didn't even cut spending. Did he reduce the size of government? Nope. Did he end any wars? Nope.
He done a few minor things. Like kick the tranny's out of the military. He opened up the Keystone pipeline. He slashed some regulations.
But did he do anything that actually improved our lives? No. My tax cuts were overshadowed by the deductions I was no longer allowed to take. So I ended up paying like $600 more in taxes.

 

[YoursTruly]

You couldnt while you were supposedly members of the parties you mentioned? Your nothing but a political hack.

I could've. And towards my affiliation with that party, I did. And was bashed by party members to the point I said **** and left the party.

BTW, what exactly is a political hack?

 

[YoursTruly]

You couldnt while you were supposedly members of the parties you mentioned? Your nothing but a political hack.

I'm still waiting for you to explain what a political hack is.
1. Because I don't know.
2. Because I don't think you know either. And that you're just saying it because it just sounds good to you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

We can support any kind of system all we want. Bogged down social media and political forums for years. But unless a good system that eliminates party loyalism, and proves to the millions of party loyalty how bad party loyalism is, then we're beating a dead horse.
People have to make up their own minds about supporting a party. They have to have their own "screw this" moments.
Mine:

Republicans: 6 months and three days after 9/11, W Bush says he's not concerned about the whereabouts of Osama.
Democrats: Finding out that even the democrats were lying about WMD.
LP: Some fat dude (in an LP leadership position) stripping on stage at the national convention.

In 2008, I rejoined the RNC to support an actual Conservative. (Ron Paul) But seen the GOP through the media, throw him under the bus many times from 2007 to 2012.
There was a bunch of "oh shit" moments that lead up to my "screw this" moment.
But the point is, party loyalist are going to have to find their own reasons. Becoming truly independent and an actual conservative, had little to do with political conversations I had with strangers on the internet.

If you see what UKIP did in the UK, you realize it can be done, you just have to get people behind it enough for one of the two major parties to feel they have to take this view as their own.

 

[YoursTruly]

If you see what UKIP did in the UK, you realize it can be done, you just have to get people behind it enough for one of the two major parties to feel they have to take this view as their own.

Over here, third party's have to spend much of their campaign donation to fight in state courts. We have 50 states, so there's many court cases. And it's never just one court case in each state. They always lose the first court and have to file for another. (or another or another) just to get their candidate on the ballots.
Then they have to struggle to get a certain percentage of approval in the national polls. (all ran by republicans or democrats) to get on the debate stage. Which has yet to happen since Ross Perot (back in the 90's)
After Ross Perot (billionaire) almost beat Bill Clinton, the R & D's took over the debate platforms.
And during this time of court battles, and trying to get their polling up, they have to fight the media, who's also paid for by the R & D's.

So you can see, there's no chance in hell any 3rd party is ever going to get anywhere in this country. If a R or D comes says something that exposes their party's corruption, their hash is settled. The party won't even help fund their next campaign.

The R & D's have it all sewn up. No way around it.

 

[MinTrut]

Ok, your idea of the left and the democrats is like my idea of the GOP and conservatives. I get that. And I would be a lot more supportive of the idea if the Democratic party not be so populated with lefties. And visa versa. The population of the elected democrats is like 98% lefties. Which means that the lefties are 98% democrats.
Once I realized that 95% of our elected republicans were not "conservative," I had to go out of my way to put the word "actual" in front of "conservative" when I'm posting about them. Especially when discussing the republicans. Too many people still think that conservatives and republicans are the same thing.
But their voting records prove differently. Trumps record as POTUS proves differently.
So, just to be clear, I have to be a bit more detailed in my description of "conservative."
You might think about that when you're discussing the democrats and the left. Because most people, including me, think they're one in the same.

Some good points, and I do think that Democrats often believe they're leftists - spout the same rhetoric - but ultimately, they're just zombie/Bizarro conservatives.

 

[MinTrut]

Over here, third party's have to spend much of their campaign donation to fight in state courts. We have 50 states, so there's many court cases. And it's never just one court case in each state. They always lose the first court and have to file for another. (or another or another) just to get their candidate on the ballots.
Then they have to struggle to get a certain percentage of approval in the national polls. (all ran by republicans or democrats) to get on the debate stage. Which has yet to happen since Ross Perot (back in the 90's)
After Ross Perot (billionaire) almost beat Bill Clinton, the R & D's took over the debate platforms.
And during this time of court battles, and trying to get their polling up, they have to fight the media, who's also paid for by the R & D's.

So you can see, there's no chance in hell any 3rd party is ever going to get anywhere in this country. If a R or D comes says something that exposes their party's corruption, their hash is settled. The party won't even help fund their next campaign.

The R & D's have it all sewn up. No way around it.

Thank you for saying this for me.

Basically, it's the Crips & Bloods, and anyone that tries to invade their territory gets snuffed.

The only real difference is that the Rs/Ds are MUCH more scary/dangerous/powerful.

 

[candycorn]

I'm with you on this. Especially given the Trump's presidency. I pointed out as much in a thread I penned in 2019

Disappointed in Democratic Field

To the best of my knowledge…no prominent Democrat running for their party’s nomination for President has addressed fundamentally changing the game so that we don’t have another wanna-be dictator like the blob 10-20 years from now. Currently we have an administration that instructs it’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

Here it is 2.5 years later and nobody in either party (Except Ben Sasse--sometimes) is talking about the fact that Congress has become little more than a speed bump for the Executive branch. Fixing Congress has to be a logical first step in diminishing the power of the two major political parties. Term limits aren't going to do anything--I have only read a few posts on page one of this thread but I'm pretty sure somewhere in the next 5 pages, term limits have been brought up. Congress has had a shitload of turnover through retirements, deaths of members, members quitting and losing elections in the last 40 years and the problem with partisanship has only gotten worse. Does one really think that if we just shorten the window to 4-8 years of service that the parties will stop being so partisan? If so...I think you're wrong.

The winning position is an informed electorate. For better or worse, the American people on the whole are just not that interested in politics. And this will be our ultimate downfall. The apathy allows for the sound bytes to sway public opinion and removes the nuance that is built into every important challenge our nation faces. Rarely has such apathy (or idiocy if you will) done so much damage as it has done wit the vaccines for Covid 19. If you are fully vaccinated, you have almost no chance of dying from Covid outside of a serious comorbidity. Every reputable statistic under the sun confirms this. Yet if you were to ask those who are vaccine resistant...you would get all manner of superstition-based responses based on what was heard from some hack who was given a platform.

How do we get an informed electorate? Start in school. Celebrate public service and public servants--yes that means politicians. You can see who doesn't do that for yourself. Teach civics as if you are teaching mathematics. And stop stressing sports in public schools--quick who won last year's Sugar Bowl. Yeah; I don't know either.

The Dreyfuss Civics Initiative – Prioritizing Civics Education

PRIORITIZING Civics Education "Teach our kids how to run our country, before they are called upon to run our country...if we don’t, someone else will run our country." ~ Richard Dreyfuss Learn More TDCI Support Our Efforts We are rapidly developing and implementing

thedreyfussinitiative.org

 

[YoursTruly]

I'm with you on this. Especially given the Trump's presidency. I pointed out as much in a thread I penned in 2019

Disappointed in Democratic Field

To the best of my knowledge…no prominent Democrat running for their party’s nomination for President has addressed fundamentally changing the game so that we don’t have another wanna-be dictator like the blob 10-20 years from now. Currently we have an administration that instructs it’s...

www.usmessageboard.com

Here it is 2.5 years later and nobody in either party (Except Ben Sasse--sometimes) is talking about the fact that Congress has become little more than a speed bump for the Executive branch. Fixing Congress has to be a logical first step in diminishing the power of the two major political parties. Term limits aren't going to do anything--I have only read a few posts on page one of this thread but I'm pretty sure somewhere in the next 5 pages, term limits have been brought up. Congress has had a shitload of turnover through retirements, deaths of members, members quitting and losing elections in the last 40 years and the problem with partisanship has only gotten worse. Does one really think that if we just shorten the window to 4-8 years of service that the parties will stop being so partisan? If so...I think you're wrong.

The winning position is an informed electorate. For better or worse, the American people on the whole are just not that interested in politics. And this will be our ultimate downfall. The apathy allows for the sound bytes to sway public opinion and removes the nuance that is built into every important challenge our nation faces. Rarely has such apathy (or idiocy if you will) done so much damage as it has done wit the vaccines for Covid 19. If you are fully vaccinated, you have almost no chance of dying from Covid outside of a serious comorbidity. Every reputable statistic under the sun confirms this. Yet if you were to ask those who are vaccine resistant...you would get all manner of superstition-based responses based on what was heard from some hack who was given a platform.

How do we get an informed electorate? Start in school. Celebrate public service and public servants--yes that means politicians. You can see who doesn't do that for yourself. Teach civics as if you are teaching mathematics. And stop stressing sports in public schools--quick who won last year's Sugar Bowl. Yeah; I don't know either.

The Dreyfuss Civics Initiative – Prioritizing Civics Education

PRIORITIZING Civics Education "Teach our kids how to run our country, before they are called upon to run our country...if we don’t, someone else will run our country." ~ Richard Dreyfuss Learn More TDCI Support Our Efforts We are rapidly developing and implementing

thedreyfussinitiative.org

I'm with you on just about everything. But I gotta say, I don't think you realize just how much power the R & D's hold collectively. Changing the way they do business, would mean changing the minds of at least 60% of the voting public, without any good media coverage.
Every good movement that I've seen since I've been paying attention to politics, has always been derailed by at least one of the major parties. The GOP destroyed the Tea Party movement of 07. By 2009, it was nothing more than a sister organization of the GOP with a stupid motto like "Anybody but Obama."
The democrat party destroyed the OW movement.
Schools are ran by the R & D's. Because almost all school board members are either one of those. Along with the administrators and the principles.

And quite honestly, if someone who would make the best president this country could ever dream of were to announce his candidacy, if he wasn't lock step with either (or both parties) the R & D's, the media and the corporations would squash him like a bug.

There's 1,000 better ways to run this country. But as long as the ones that are actually running it have the control, what options do we have? Seriously, the first thing that needs to happen is the vast majority of party loyalist, have to finally break free from party loyalty and start thinking for themselves. If/when that happens, there's the HUGE fight to take the control away from the R & D's.

 

[candycorn]

1. Strict, short term limits

Against. We'll just get less experienced R's and D's who sell their vote to the highest bidder and set themselves up for a sweet life after their political career ends. The only difference is that we'll see them do it much sooner and with much more volatility than now. Whatever the next generation of billion dollar submarines and destroyers are (that we don't need) will get built a lot sooner...thus replacing the current subs and ships that never fired their guns in anger...once. Over the last 40 years, we've had a lot of turnover in the Congress. For example, when I lived in Texas, during my lifetime there--multiple decades, we went through Bentsen, Krueger, Hutchison, Cruz (I think), Gramm, Tower and probably twice as many House members. Partisanship just got more tedious. Shortening someone's time in the chamber isn't going to make them less partisan...if you think it will, please tell me how. It also, in my view, weakens our hand on the world stage when you don't have people who are "up" on the histories of our adversaries (or our friends).

2. Publicly-funded elections

I have to say...I need clarity on what you mean on this. What I think it means is that every ad we see in the general elections on the federal level are paid for by taxpayers? All of the soft money will simply cloud the issue if we do that--won't it? So I don't see the real gain for this. Sounds like a good idea as far as it goes though...but without campaign reform in general...what do you really get out of limiting candidates to tax money only.

3. Ranked choice voting

I'm a pass on this. It seems to me that everyone's second choice could win the election. Not good. I'd love to see a pilot program to where like 10 states do it for 10 years and see how often the intricacies of RCV come into play. I can be persuaded.

4. Nonpartisan primaries

Definitely. I'd go one better (maybe it's the same thing)... Just have one primary with R's and D's and I's or whatever. If two Democrats are the top two vote-getters, they face off in the general election. If its 2 Republicans...same thing.

5. Independent redistricting commissions

Best idea out of the five. I'd do it differently than "drawing" boundaries. I've mentioned it before but here it is again.

For the ease of math, Lets say you have 10 congressional districts in a state and 1,000 zip codes. Take the 1,000 zip codes and break them down by population to where you have 10 groups (roughly 100 zip codes per group). If you have 16 reps, you have 16 groups, etc... Then just assign, at random, each congressional district the 100 zip codes. No pretense to geographic concerns. They don't have to be contiguous. So every representative ends up with the same number of constituents... some urban, some suburban, some rural. No more "safe" districts carved out by party affiliation since there are no districts set up to shoehorn like minded voters together. Which is the goal of an independent redistricting convention.

 

[candycorn]

Schools are ran by the R & D's. Because almost all school board members are either one of those. Along with the administrators and the principles.

I think you're off about the school board members being R's and D's by and large. Sure they have preferences--anyone who studies politics develops preferences. Whatever they are though, we should teach kids that there is some nobility in public service. I don't think that gets stressed at all much less stressed enough.

And quite honestly, if someone who would make the best president this country could ever dream of were to announce his candidacy, if he wasn't lock step with either (or both parties) the R & D's, the media and the corporations would squash him like a bug.

There's 1,000 better ways to run this country. But as long as the ones that are actually running it have the control, what options do we have? Seriously, the first thing that needs to happen is the vast majority of party loyalist, have to finally break free from party loyalty and start thinking for themselves. If/when that happens, there's the HUGE fight to take the control away from the R & D's.

One of the reasons I'm not bent too much out of shape with Sinema and Mancin. Its good to see a little independence

 

[WTH_Progs?]

You're right in a lot of ways, the Demonicrats & Repulsivans depend on divide to remain in power. If it's always the other guy's fault then..............

I was non-partisan, like you, but I registered Republican when the Demonics showed their ugly heads, finally, in 2017. I have no doubt which of the two parties is most evil, so at this point even a good Democrat, which to my knowledge is one (Gabbard) won't see my vote, simply because the Democracks must not have power.

I have no issues calling out Republicans, Trump, what ever. But slice and dice all you want, these Democrats are pushing communism, insanity, racism and opposite days for sake of the global elite's benefit only.

 

[Roudy]

Your post reminded me of this very accurate video:

That video is why this county elected Donald Trump, a complete anti Deep State outsider.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Our political system is broken

Negative….it has almost nothing to do with politics. It’s you Lefties and all things you push…..Multiculturalism, faggotry, the disdain for american sovereignty, american culture, traditions, values and moral order.
We are nation too different with too many different desires….Core Americans are committed to preserving and protecting traditional / conventional America wheres Democrats / the Left / the Change America Hate America filth are hell-bent on tearing down all American institutions and re-building from a new foundation.
Embrace the hate and divide.