Zone1 Free Will

[Slyhunter]

I just finished season 1 of Lucifer. Yes I know it's fiction. But got me to thinking, Satan's only real sin is wanting to make his own decisions, be his own boss, have free will, and trying to give it to others. Remember in the Greek Mythos how that God got punished for giving men fire. Same thing I think. If the price of entering Heaven means being an Amoeba, I'll chose Hell.

 

[Votto]

Congratulations

Now how do you like yourself?

Do you like yourself medium rare or well done?

 

[night_son]

I just finished season 1 of Lucifer. Yes I know it's fiction. But got me to thinking, Satan's only real sin is wanting to make his own decisions, be his own boss, have free will, and trying to give it to others. Remember in the Greek Mythos how that God got punished for giving men fire. Same thing I think. If the price of entering Heaven means being an Amoeba, I'll chose Hell.

If your free will extends to freely raping, robbing or murdering your fellow human beings, you may not live long enough to practice your theory, theoretically.

 

[task0778]

I just finished season 1 of Lucifer. Yes I know it's fiction. But got me to thinking, Satan's only real sin is wanting to make his own decisions, be his own boss, have free will, and trying to give it to others. Remember in the Greek Mythos how that God got punished for giving men fire. Same thing I think. If the price of entering Heaven means being an Amoeba, I'll chose Hell.

I cannot accept a religion that forces a decision like that with such dire consequences on anybody. Especially without ample proof or even tangible evidence that such is the case, and so I don't believe it. I do not believe that Hell exists except in the minds of too many people, or maybe in the hell they create for themselves in the course of their lives. We have been given the ability to think and to reason, and IMHO such a scenario is unreasonable. I ain't saying it's not true cuz I have no evidence for or against it, but it strikes me as a very hard proposition to accept.

 

[BreezeWood]

If the price of entering Heaven means being an Amoeba, I'll chose Hell.

the desert churches are poor excuses for religion ... sectarian documents, u s constitution are paths more suitable for reaching the heavens. choice is only as good as there being one to make.

 

[onefour1]

In the premortal world of spirits, Lucifer came up with his own plan for saving souls. He came up with the idea that he would use force to make sure everyone who came to this earth would be good and he would save all mankind and nobody would fall. After presenting his plan to our Heavenly Father, it was rejected and Lucifer was angry and rebelled against the Father by attempting to turn all his children against the Father and to back his plan. The reason the Father rejected the plan of Lucifer was because you cannot make a person truly good by using force. People must be allowed to choose in and of themselves to be good beings to truly become one. Using coercive action does not bring about a truly good being. So this started the war in heaven. Lucifer's name was changed to Satan and he and all the children of God who followed after him were cast out of heaven into this earth and they became the devil and his angels. Satan is the father of taking away freedom and continues to this day to seek to do so. Those who run the WEF seek to take all our property and control everyone by making them conform to their wishes or take away their livelihood. Freedom has always been the means of how our Father in Heaven operates. If not so, we would not be able to choose to be evil in this world. God allows free will because it is the only way for people to truly become good beings (of their own free will).

 

[Slyhunter]

Congratulations

Now how do you like yourself?

Do you like yourself medium rare or well done?

View attachment 684705

So your a Christian because you are terrified of burning in Hell? That's a fucked up motivation.

 

[Slyhunter]

If your free will extends to freely raping, robbing or murdering your fellow human beings, you may not live long enough to practice your theory, theoretically.

Free will would naturally be limited to not interfering with someone else's free will.

 

[Slyhunter]

In the premortal world of spirits, Lucifer came up with his own plan for saving souls. He came up with the idea that he would use force to make sure everyone who came to this earth would be good and he would save all mankind and nobody would fall. After presenting his plan to our Heavenly Father, it was rejected and Lucifer was angry and rebelled against the Father by attempting to turn all his children against the Father and to back his plan. The reason the Father rejected the plan of Lucifer was because you cannot make a person truly good by using force. People must be allowed to choose in and of themselves to be good beings to truly become one. Using coercive action does not bring about a truly good being. So this started the war in heaven. Lucifer's name was changed to Satan and he and all the children of God who followed after him were cast out of heaven into this earth and they became the devil and his angels. Satan is the father of taking away freedom and continues to this day to seek to do so. Those who run the WEF seek to take all our property and control everyone by making them conform to their wishes or take away their livelihood. Freedom has always been the means of how our Father in Heaven operates. If not so, we would not be able to choose to be evil in this world. God allows free will because it is the only way for people to truly become good beings (of their own free will).

You must've read a different book than I.

 

[onefour1]

You must've read a different book than I.

I am not coming from the book that you read. These are my sources:

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This verse tells us that Satan and his follows rebelled against God the Father and Jesus Christ in heaven. This rebellion is known as the war in heaven. Eventually Satan and his followers were cast out of heaven into the earth. Satan and his angels were accusing Michael and his followers of something and because of this they were cast out. Michael and those who fount along side of Michael eventually came to earth as mortals and it was here that they are able to overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb and by the testimonies they have of the Christ. We know that they were also subject unto death.

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

From the above verse we learn that Lucifer had fallen from heaven. We also learn that Lucifer was a son of the morning. We also learn that he Lucifer sought to attain unto himself glory and high status. We learn that he has spent his time on earth weakening the nations. We also learn that he will eventually be cast into hell. Finally we learn that Lucifer was also a man in spirit (of whom are made in the image of God).

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

From these verses we learn that Satan was from the beginning before the earth was. He sought to be the savior of the world and wanted to be sent to the earth and said he would save all mankind that not one soul would be lost. He sought to gain the honor of the Father through his plan to save all mankind. but Jesus Christ was chosen instead of Satan because he was willing to do the will of the Father. Evidently Satan had his own plan and wanted implement it without going with the plan of the Father. Satan rebelled against the Father. His plan was to take away the free agency of mankind and by force make sure all were saved. His real goal was to gain the power of the Father. But because of his rebellion in the war in heaven he was cast out of heaven.

Luke 10:18
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Here Jesus tells his disciples that he beheld Satan as lightening fall from heaven.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:25-28
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,

26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.

27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!


28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ

From this we learn again that Lucifer was a son of the morning, an angel of God who was in authority in God's presence, and he rebelled against the Only Begotten Son and was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son. He became Perdition. We learn that Lucifer attempted to take the kingdom of God and Christ.

Abraham 3:22-28
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

Here we learn that Abraham was among the spirits in the premortal existence before the earth was created. We also learn that there also many others of whom an earth was to be made for. Some of these spirits were chosen to be leaders at that time. When God asked for volunteers to be the Savior of the world two spirits volunteered. One was Jesus and the other was Lucifer. When God chose Jesus to be the Savior, Lucifer was angry and rebelled against the Father and at that day many of the spirits (who were the children of the Father) rebelled against God and followed after Lucifer.

Revelation 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

In this verse we learn that Lucifer was quite successful in the war in heaven and was able to draw 1/3 of the hosts of heaven to follow after him.