"Free Palestine

[Coyote]

What was its capital then, who was its leader, what was its monetary unit and who owned the land under International law at the time ?

That's such a stupid canard.

To a palistanian, an arab/moslem, a loser, or a university student, of course

Perhaps you can fill us in as to what monetary unit the Souix had, what was it's capital, and who owned the land under international law at the time or are they a fake people too?

The region known as Palestine has existed under that name for some time.

Had existed like some loose palestine, indeed. And, oh, the mandate palestine included Jordan![/quote]

Drivel.

It does not have to have the above to "exist" as a region with inhabitants.

Oh. Mesopotamia, of course! With "mesopotamians" objecting to "the right of return" of other "mesopotamians".[/QUOTE]

More drivel.

 

[Coyote]

Did the Souix have a border? A capital? A currency? A GDP? How about the Cheyenne? How many other people will suddenly cease to exist as a people?

Oh! And palistanians had a currency, a capital and a GDP! How 'bout the cheyenne, bth?

Did the Souix have a border? A capital? A currency? A GDP?

 

[Challenger]

I do not know why there is a focus on whether the people indigenous to the land were called Palestinians or not. I am from Canada and we displaced many aboriginals in this land. Whether or not the were from the Metis tribe, Iroquois etc. or whether they are called Indians or aboriginals does not matter. It seems like unlike Zionists, I feel very badly on how we treated the people indigenous to this land. I encourage aboriginals in Canada to have tax empetions, fist rights on government jobs, mining agreements regarding natural resources because WE TOOK IT ALL FROM THEM. For Zionists to deny they displaced people wether the are Arab, Palestinian, or whatever they want to be called is ignorant.
Please note THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ZIONISM AND JUDAISM. Jews lived in a much more peaceful time in the Middle East prior to Zionism.
ZIONISTS please listen to your brothers of the Neturei Karta and the True Torah Jews. They have the true insight into peace for the region.

Define Zionism in your own words

They never understand that Judaism is about Israel and the strive for living in the holy land to fulfill the covenant with God almighty, the Modern Zionism is about living in this land and unify the Jewish to a place for shelter.

Always thought Judaism was about the quest for personal redemption. If it was about living in the "Holy Land" why wasn't there a mass wave of immigration in the centuries following the collapse of the Christian Eastern Roman Empire? The subsequent Muslim rulers never enacted any law preventing Jewish immigration until the late 19th, early 20th centuries CE, after the invention of Zionism and because of protests by the local population.

LIAR asSaudi Arabia has always had laws against the Jews living there. The ottomans only allowed Jewish migration from the middle of the 1800's.

Oh please. You can be such a tool at times. Saudi Arabia didn't exist until 1932 and you've already forgotten the fact that you yourself pointed out that the Ottomans invited Jewish Spaniards to settle in the 15th century.

 

[Coyote]

I had no idea that all Palestinians are terrorists.

Nah. Not all of them, indeed. It's just all of them support terrorism and wait till it "succeeds" to rush in and take a jewish home over, of course.

I'm sure you can support that statement with facts or....are we in for more drivel?

 

[Challenger]

Me neither, until I found out about it researching something else.

So he ruled the NORTERN PART OF PALESTINE not all of it. And this does not mean that Palestine was a nation does it ?

Another fail

You said there was no evidence of a Palestinian state until 1988, look you said it here:

....there is no evidence of there ever being a Palestinian state until 1988

I provided you with some evidence for a Palestinian state before 1988, seems you are moving the goalposts again.

NO you didn't you provided the name of a person that ruled over a province in the north of Palestine, you did not prove the existence of a nation or state by that name.

That is something you do all the time whenever you are shown to be posting half truths and outright lies.

Not happened yet, but feel free to dream on.

 

[Phoenall]

As has been pointed out to you innumerable times, there has never been a country called Palestine run by "Palestinians". You are uneducable and so keep repeating this stupid nonsense.

Yet they lived there. Why should they be forced to leave?

Because they don't let others live, of course.

Really now....there seem to be a whole lot of "others" alive.

Not really when you consider the numbers there were before the Islamic invasion, everywhere they invade they ethnically cleanse and decimate the indigenous

 

[Phoenall]

But they are still British. You do not have separate countries or "self determination" for each of those groups. Arabs had tribal labeling but they were arabs. Of the many tribes, they did not form separate nations.

I deliberately chose English regions, but "British" will do at a pinch to demonstrate the regional variations within one country. Historically we did have sperate kingdoms for many English regions and many do want regional autonomy, (a recent genetic survey has found that a Geordie is genetically different from a Cornishman, but thats a topic for another forum) not just te scots or the Welsh.

My point was that the same or something similar applies to Palestinians, Syrians, etc. While they were all Ottoman subjects, a Syrian could tell a Palestinian from a Bedouin by their appearance, cultural traits and dialect. Yet all of them were considered a homogenous group: "Arabs", by the Western colonial powers who drew arbitrary lines in the sand and created a country of "Syria", "Palestine", "Jordan", etc.

even Scotland voted against separation.

Palestinians were never a state or kingdom. It is simply a roman name given to three part of the gaza sinai. It was never an autonomous rule nor a people.
How is it similar? They were tribes, arabs, various other races but not palestinian by race, language, religion, culture or anything else. It is simply a foreign designation of name for the area, not an arab name. Till the mandate they never called themselves palestinians or call the land palestine. Even as a sanjak within the syria vilayet it was called jerusalem, beirut, damascus, zor, mount lebanon, safad, nablus. Not since the 16th century had there even been a gaza within syria.

Till the mandate they would never have called themselves palestinian or claimed to have been part of any place called palestine. It was not in their language.

So what? Palestine has been a geo-political entity since at least Herodotus, and it's inhabitants were Palestinians, regardless of what they called themselves or what others may called them. Kurds have never had a State or Kingdom, but no-one denies they are a "nation".

Palaistinê, a greek term, to describe where the Philistines lived, people of Plešt. They likely called them selves caphtor. They would not have used a "foreign" name for identifying who they were.
That would be like american natives calling themselves indian. That was a term used by others not one they would have known or used.

So what? Palestine in one language or another has been called Palestine for at least a thousand years, be it a place where Philistines lived, or a Roman province, or a part of a wider Caliphate, or Ottoman subjects. It's just a label; the people who lived there throughout countless generations with their own language and customs, are still a "nation" like the Kurds. In the 19th and 20th centuries they decided to call themselves "Palestinians", much like the European foreigner colonists who decided to call themselves "Israelis", based purely on a semi-mythical Kingdom of Israel that may, or may not, have existed, but was written up in a so called "holy book" by a bunch of monotheist fanatics exiled in Babylonia.

But it was never a nation or state was it, it was just a place in the M.E. that no one wanted to claim.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Did the Souix have a border? A capital? A currency? A GDP?

They had the most important thing -- a sense of identity as a people.

"Palestinians" were simply made up as a propaganda tool against Jews and had no such identity until encouraged by the Egyptian Named Arafat to start calling themselves such.

 

[Coyote]

Yes it did. Although by and large subsumed in the Pan-Arabism prevalent at the time, an Arab from Arabia could distinguish between an Arab from Mesopotamia from Syria, from Palestine. Much like in the U.K. we can distinguish between a Cornishman, a Geordie, a Cockney, etc. A Cornishman, a Geordie and a Cockney are all Englishmen, but they have their own fierce pride in their regional history and identity.

But they are still British. You do not have separate countries or "self determination" for each of those groups. Arabs had tribal labeling but they were arabs. Of the many tribes, they did not form separate nations.

I deliberately chose English regions, but "British" will do at a pinch to demonstrate the regional variations within one country. Historically we did have sperate kingdoms for many English regions and many do want regional autonomy, (a recent genetic survey has found that a Geordie is genetically different from a Cornishman, but thats a topic for another forum) not just te scots or the Welsh.

My point was that the same or something similar applies to Palestinians, Syrians, etc. While they were all Ottoman subjects, a Syrian could tell a Palestinian from a Bedouin by their appearance, cultural traits and dialect. Yet all of them were considered a homogenous group: "Arabs", by the Western colonial powers who drew arbitrary lines in the sand and created a country of "Syria", "Palestine", "Jordan", etc.

even Scotland voted against separation.

Palestinians were never a state or kingdom. It is simply a roman name given to three part of the gaza sinai. It was never an autonomous rule nor a people.
How is it similar? They were tribes, arabs, various other races but not palestinian by race, language, religion, culture or anything else. It is simply a foreign designation of name for the area, not an arab name. Till the mandate they never called themselves palestinians or call the land palestine. Even as a sanjak within the syria vilayet it was called jerusalem, beirut, damascus, zor, mount lebanon, safad, nablus. Not since the 16th century had there even been a gaza within syria.

Till the mandate they would never have called themselves palestinian or claimed to have been part of any place called palestine. It was not in their language.

So what? Palestine has been a geo-political entity since at least Herodotus, and it's inhabitants were Palestinians, regardless of what they called themselves or what others may called them. Kurds have never had a State or Kingdom, but no-one denies they are a "nation".

So when did the Syrians and Egyptians start calling themselves palestinians ?

When did the Syrians start calling themselves Syrian?
When did the Egyptians start calling themselves Egyptian?

Did the Souix have a border? A capital? A currency? A GDP?

They had the most important thing -- a sense of identity as a people.

"Palestinians" were simply made up as a propaganda tool against Jews and had no such identity until encouraged by the Egyptian Named Arafat to start calling themselves such.

The Palestinians formed an identity as a group of people who lived in that area - every group of people start out that way.

 

[Coyote]

As has been pointed out to you innumerable times, there has never been a country called Palestine run by "Palestinians". You are uneducable and so keep repeating this stupid nonsense.

Yet they lived there. Why should they be forced to leave?

Because they don't let others live, of course.

Really now....there seem to be a whole lot of "others" alive.

Not really when you consider the numbers there were before the Islamic invasion, everywhere they invade they ethnically cleanse and decimate the indigenous

That doesn't jive with history.

 

[aris2chat]

But they are still British. You do not have separate countries or "self determination" for each of those groups. Arabs had tribal labeling but they were arabs. Of the many tribes, they did not form separate nations.

I deliberately chose English regions, but "British" will do at a pinch to demonstrate the regional variations within one country. Historically we did have sperate kingdoms for many English regions and many do want regional autonomy, (a recent genetic survey has found that a Geordie is genetically different from a Cornishman, but thats a topic for another forum) not just te scots or the Welsh.

My point was that the same or something similar applies to Palestinians, Syrians, etc. While they were all Ottoman subjects, a Syrian could tell a Palestinian from a Bedouin by their appearance, cultural traits and dialect. Yet all of them were considered a homogenous group: "Arabs", by the Western colonial powers who drew arbitrary lines in the sand and created a country of "Syria", "Palestine", "Jordan", etc.

even Scotland voted against separation.

Palestinians were never a state or kingdom. It is simply a roman name given to three part of the gaza sinai. It was never an autonomous rule nor a people.
How is it similar? They were tribes, arabs, various other races but not palestinian by race, language, religion, culture or anything else. It is simply a foreign designation of name for the area, not an arab name. Till the mandate they never called themselves palestinians or call the land palestine. Even as a sanjak within the syria vilayet it was called jerusalem, beirut, damascus, zor, mount lebanon, safad, nablus. Not since the 16th century had there even been a gaza within syria.

Till the mandate they would never have called themselves palestinian or claimed to have been part of any place called palestine. It was not in their language.

So what? Palestine has been a geo-political entity since at least Herodotus, and it's inhabitants were Palestinians, regardless of what they called themselves or what others may called them. Kurds have never had a State or Kingdom, but no-one denies they are a "nation".

So when did the Syrians and Egyptians start calling themselves palestinians ?

When did the Syrians start calling themselves Syrian?
When did the Egyptians start calling themselves Egyptian?

Did the Souix have a border? A capital? A currency? A GDP?

They had the most important thing -- a sense of identity as a people.

"Palestinians" were simply made up as a propaganda tool against Jews and had no such identity until encouraged by the Egyptian Named Arafat to start calling themselves such.

The Palestinians formed an identity as a group of people who lived in that area - every group of people start out that way.

The name of sura come from the hittites, turks. Greeks changed used to the term syria for the northern assyria, Iraq. Romans used syria for the levant area. The people identified by their city-state, not as syrians. Even under the mandate they were classified by the major cities such as damascus and aleppo.

Nationalist terms came with the end of the empire.

 

[aris2chat]

As has been pointed out to you innumerable times, there has never been a country called Palestine run by "Palestinians". You are uneducable and so keep repeating this stupid nonsense.

Yet they lived there. Why should they be forced to leave?

Because they don't let others live, of course.

Really now....there seem to be a whole lot of "others" alive.

Not really when you consider the numbers there were before the Islamic invasion, everywhere they invade they ethnically cleanse and decimate the indigenous

That doesn't jive with history.

Western history or muslim history? You are imposing the belief that all history is western history. What was actually written by the arab world did not use the same terms or ideas.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The Palestinians formed an identity as a group of people who lived in that area - every group of people start out that way.

Just a few decades ago, and only AFTER the advent of Zionism.

Legitimate groups are not only much older than that, but their sense of Identity resulted from natural processes rather than one intentionally manipulated for a very specific political purpose.

 

[Coyote]

The Palestinians formed an identity as a group of people who lived in that area - every group of people start out that way.

Just a few decades ago, and only AFTER the advent of Zionism.

Legitimate groups are not only much older than that, but their sense of Identity resulted from natural processes rather than one intentionally manipulated for a very specific political purpose.

When does a people become a people? 10 years? 50 years? A century? A thousand years?

They lived there.

They are a community.

They are a people now.

But some people are desperate to take that away. Make them less than. Is it really so important to do so?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

When does a people become a people? 10 years? 50 years? A century? A thousand years?

They lived there.

They are a community.

They are a people now.

But some people are desperate to take that away. Make them less than. Is it really so important to do so?

It is important to know how you have been manipulated in most cynical fashion in order to arrive at the opinions you hold.

That is assuming you are an actual useful idiot living in West Virginia as you claim instead of being one of the manipulating Arabs doing this intentionally as you actually appear, mind you.

 

[Coyote]

When does a people become a people? 10 years? 50 years? A century? A thousand years?

They lived there.

They are a community.

They are a people now.

But some people are desperate to take that away. Make them less than. Is it really so important to do so?

It is important to know how you have been manipulated in most cynical fashion in order to arrive at the opinions you hold.

That is assuming you are an actual useful idiot living in West Virginia as you claim instead of being one of the manipulating Arabs doing this intentionally as you actually appear, mind you.

It doesn't take any nefarious manipulating to recognize people as people - individuals. Nor does it take any manipulating to ask a simple straightforward question - when does a people become a people?

Is it an arbritrary timeline...like...only after a century....?
Is it a political definition...like...only if they are of the politically correct ethnicity?

 

[Coyote]

Yet they lived there. Why should they be forced to leave?

Because they don't let others live, of course.

Really now....there seem to be a whole lot of "others" alive.

Not really when you consider the numbers there were before the Islamic invasion, everywhere they invade they ethnically cleanse and decimate the indigenous

That doesn't jive with history.

Western history or muslim history? You are imposing the belief that all history is western history. What was actually written by the arab world did not use the same terms or ideas.

No. I'm not. Your imposing your assumptions on me.

 

[Coyote]

I deliberately chose English regions, but "British" will do at a pinch to demonstrate the regional variations within one country. Historically we did have sperate kingdoms for many English regions and many do want regional autonomy, (a recent genetic survey has found that a Geordie is genetically different from a Cornishman, but thats a topic for another forum) not just te scots or the Welsh.

My point was that the same or something similar applies to Palestinians, Syrians, etc. While they were all Ottoman subjects, a Syrian could tell a Palestinian from a Bedouin by their appearance, cultural traits and dialect. Yet all of them were considered a homogenous group: "Arabs", by the Western colonial powers who drew arbitrary lines in the sand and created a country of "Syria", "Palestine", "Jordan", etc.

even Scotland voted against separation.

Palestinians were never a state or kingdom. It is simply a roman name given to three part of the gaza sinai. It was never an autonomous rule nor a people.
How is it similar? They were tribes, arabs, various other races but not palestinian by race, language, religion, culture or anything else. It is simply a foreign designation of name for the area, not an arab name. Till the mandate they never called themselves palestinians or call the land palestine. Even as a sanjak within the syria vilayet it was called jerusalem, beirut, damascus, zor, mount lebanon, safad, nablus. Not since the 16th century had there even been a gaza within syria.

Till the mandate they would never have called themselves palestinian or claimed to have been part of any place called palestine. It was not in their language.

So what? Palestine has been a geo-political entity since at least Herodotus, and it's inhabitants were Palestinians, regardless of what they called themselves or what others may called them. Kurds have never had a State or Kingdom, but no-one denies they are a "nation".

So when did the Syrians and Egyptians start calling themselves palestinians ?

When did the Syrians start calling themselves Syrian?
When did the Egyptians start calling themselves Egyptian?

Did the Souix have a border? A capital? A currency? A GDP?

They had the most important thing -- a sense of identity as a people.

"Palestinians" were simply made up as a propaganda tool against Jews and had no such identity until encouraged by the Egyptian Named Arafat to start calling themselves such.

The Palestinians formed an identity as a group of people who lived in that area - every group of people start out that way.

The name of sura come from the hittites, turks. Greeks changed used to the term syria for the northern assyria, Iraq. Romans used syria for the levant area. The people identified by their city-state, not as syrians. Even under the mandate they were classified by the major cities such as damascus and aleppo.

Nationalist terms came with the end of the empire.

When does a people become a "people" worthy of being recognized as such? Is it arbritrary depending on whether you approve of the group or not?

 

[joesakic]

I do not know why there is a focus on whether the people indigenous to the land were called Palestinians or not. I am from Canada and we displaced many aboriginals in this land. Whether or not the were from the Metis tribe, Iroquois etc. or whether they are called Indians or aboriginals does not matter. It seems like unlike Zionists, I feel very badly on how we treated the people indigenous to this land. I encourage aboriginals in Canada to have tax empetions, fist rights on government jobs, mining agreements regarding natural resources because WE TOOK IT ALL FROM THEM. For Zionists to deny they displaced people wether the are Arab, Palestinian, or whatever they want to be called is ignorant.
Please note THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ZIONISM AND JUDAISM. Jews lived in a much more peaceful time in the Middle East prior to Zionism.
ZIONISTS please listen to your brothers of the Neturei Karta and the True Torah Jews. They have the true insight into peace for the region.

Define Zionism in your own words

Zionism is a belief started in late 1800's that Jews have a right to the land of Israel even if it encompasses apartheid measures. Define apartheid.

 

[joesakic]

references for Zionism vs Judaism

True Torah Jews
Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism