France Proves That Not Everyone Is Paying Attention

[Saigon]

There aer no "conservatives" in Europe. They are all social-democrats.
.

That really is nonsense - have you ever been to Europe?

There are major conservative parties - and I mean real hard-core conservatives - in every European country.

Just because conservatives around the world don't drag out some idiot like Sarah Palin for a candidate does not mean they are not genuinely conservative.

 

[Artevelde]

There aer no "conservatives" in Europe. They are all social-democrats.
.

That really is nonsense - have you ever been to Europe?

There are major conservative parties - and I mean real hard-core conservatives - in every European country.

Just because conservatives around the world don't drag out some idiot like Sarah Palin for a candidate does not mean they are not genuinely conservative.

Actually, I have to disagree with you a bit. It's not correct that there are "real hard-core conservative" parties in every European country. Of course it depends how you define conservatism.

Most European parties tend to be fairly middle of the road, with minor differences.

Labelling them all as social-democratic is of course also ludicrous.

 

[Saigon]

Artevelde -

It does depend on how you define it; I totally agree.

Now Sakorzy I agree is fairly centrist (except on immigration, where he is clearly right wing) but when I think of David Cameron in England - how is he not a real conservative?

Here in Finland our ruling conservative party (Kokoomus) are all about business, lowering taxes...all the major conservative policy areas. It seems that to some Americans any conservative who doesn't want to ban abortion and arm the population can't really be considered a conservative.

 

[Artevelde]

Artevelde -

It does depend on how you define it; I totally agree.

Now Sakorzy I agree is fairly centrist (except on immigration, where he is clearly right wing) but when I think of David Cameron in England - how is he not a real conservative?

Here in Finland our ruling conservative party (Kokoomus) are all about business, lowering taxes...all the major conservative policy areas. It seems that to some Americans any conservative who doesn't want to ban abortion and arm the population can't really be considered a conservative.

I take your point.

Personally my Conservatism is a bit more traditional and philosophical and thus outside the mainstream of European politics. While I'm not anti-government (no true Conservative can be against government in an absolute sense) I do believe the state has taken on too great a role at the expense of civil society.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The French election's lesson as it relates to over here is that when you hear Republican politicians/candidates going off on how they are going to make dramatic cuts in the size of government and the amount of government spending,

and voila! balance the budget!

they are feeding you a big plate of horseshit.

Austerity is a job killer, and job killers are vote killers, and vote killers are politician killers,

and no sane politician wants to commit political suicide.

 

[tinydancer]

The French were tired of Sarkozy. IMO, most of the difference will be settled when the choice needs to be made between reality and rhetoric.

I'm not defending him, but the left uses the press to get everyone tired of someone by bombarding the public with negative stories, constant bickering, irrational accusations, whatever frustrates everyone to the point it becomes confusing and unitelligable.

People form a superficial opinion and tune it out.

He specifically aimed for his affair with Valerie. To cover it up was quite the deal. Think of how many in the press would have had to be involved to hide his affair with this *****.

So his ***** is from Paris Match running the press campaign against Sarkozy. He even let this woman slag his wife, before she became his ex. He will be a nightmare on the international stage.

This man is a true Marxist. Now it makes sense the Depp is leaving France. Anyone with a lick of sense is running for the hills.

 

[The Rabbi]

There aer no "conservatives" in Europe. They are all social-democrats.
.

That really is nonsense - have you ever been to Europe?

There are major conservative parties - and I mean real hard-core conservatives - in every European country.

Just because conservatives around the world don't drag out some idiot like Sarah Palin for a candidate does not mean they are not genuinely conservative.

There are no major conservative parties in Europe. Not in the sense we mean it here. The Free Democrats in Germany are sort of close.

 

[Artevelde]

The French election's lesson as it relates to over here is that when you hear Republican politicians/candidates going off on how they are going to make dramatic cuts in the size of government and the amount of government spending,

and voila! balance the budget!

they are feeding you a big plate of horseshit.

Austerity is a job killer, and job killers are vote killers, and vote killers are politician killers,

and no sane politician wants to commit political suicide.

So not spending more than you can finance and thereby avoiding bankruptcy is called "austerity" now?

 

[tinydancer]

The French election's lesson as it relates to over here is that when you hear Republican politicians/candidates going off on how they are going to make dramatic cuts in the size of government and the amount of government spending,

and voila! balance the budget!

they are feeding you a big plate of horseshit.

Austerity is a job killer, and job killers are vote killers, and vote killers are politician killers,

and no sane politician wants to commit political suicide.

He never implemented any austerity measures. Sarkozy smooched Merkel but he never did what was needed in the country. He's just going to go down because his opponent Hollande has fucked and is ******* one of the biggest press agents in France and they've done a real propaganda number on him.

Now to truth:

By all means keep spending money you don't have called stimulus. You are insane. You libs are truly ******* insane.

You have no money.

You are broke. Where's your money?

You are FUBAR'd for crying out loud. You are trillions in mother ******* debt and you keep talking about spending more money?

You are fucked in the brain. What the hell is wrong with you? YOU ARE BROKE as a nation.

You're toast. I'm willing to listen if you have an argument but for crying out loud you are so freaking broke and you don't seem to get it.

 

[Saigon]

There are no major conservative parties in Europe. Not in the sense we mean it here. The Free Democrats in Germany are sort of close.

And of course it could not be that it is the US conservatives who have abandoned the true pat of conervatism?

It must be the 30 other western countries with conservative parties that have got it wrong?

Again, how are the UK Conservatives, or New Zealand's National or Finland's Kokoomus NOT conservatives?

 

[Navy1960]

The Far Right
The far right in French politics is occupied by two parties, the Front National (National Front, founded by Jean Marie Le Pen, and currently led (2011) by his daughter Marine le Pen), and the Mouvement pour la France (MPF). The FN is a classic extreme right-wing party, similar to Britain's BNP, campaigning on a ticket of national preference, law and order, and anti-immigration. The MPF is a sovereignist party, more similar to Britain's UKIP, with whom it is allied in the EFT movement in the European parliament; it is seen as a moderate right-wing party, and attracts conservative traditionalists such as its quite popular leader Philippe de Villiers, an aristocrat and former Gaullist minister. Both parties call for withdrawal from the European Union, or a massive curtailment of the EU's role.

The mainstream right
At present (2012), the political right in France is more coherent and united than the left. The main "conservative" party is the UMP - Union pour un Mouvement Populaire. This is the biggest political party in France, and the reason that it has achieved this status is that like Britain's Conservatives and America's Republicans, it is a party that encompasses a fairly broad range of political opinion, including traditional conservatives, social liberals, and also a Thatcherite or neo-conservative right.
The main political parties in France - About-France.com

Hopefully this helps a little in the debate, it does seem based on this reading that the "conservatives" in France at least are more akin to "moderates or even blue dogs" here, or even a party that includes all of them with the extremes represented by parties on the left and right.

 

[tinydancer]

The French election's lesson as it relates to over here is that when you hear Republican politicians/candidates going off on how they are going to make dramatic cuts in the size of government and the amount of government spending,

and voila! balance the budget!

they are feeding you a big plate of horseshit.

Austerity is a job killer, and job killers are vote killers, and vote killers are politician killers,

and no sane politician wants to commit political suicide.

So not spending more than you can finance and thereby avoiding bankruptcy is called "austerity" now?

Is it just me? Or are we ready to cue twilight zone music here?

Austerity: New definition. Not spending money you don't have.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Nicholas Sarcozy lost because the left has control of the media.

If a socialist is in charge they ignore events that cast their guy in a bad light, like they do in America, but if a Conservative wins they focus only on the bad.

Everyone has been hearing about Austerity. This means cutting back on government spending. The press pounces on any hardship this causes.

What socialists like Obama have been doing is flushing government with cash in the form of bail outs and stimulus. Problem is there's a finite supply of cash, so eventually the spigot goes dry. The uproar is loud when the sick and the crippled, special interests, and government sponsored beneficiaries see the benefits cut. They want to blame someone. Guess who gets blamed. The people that said we couldn't afford all of this Stimulus. The junkies need there fix and the left is there for them, they hope.

So if you wonder why Obama spent so much, this is why. He knows that even if he loses the left will still win....because not enough people are paying attention. It worked in France. Why can't it work here. His only solution is tax the rich. When the numbers proved this to be no solution he simply said it was a good start. Trust Obama.

Is America stupid enough to trust him again? France tells me yes.

That's because lazy idiots will vote for whomever offers the most free shit...

 

[Katzndogz]

If it was generally understood that Hollande was going to be able to deal with French economic difficulties our stock market wouldn't have dived when he was elected. Hollande's plan to restore economic security is to demand that Germany fork over the cash.

Watch as the EU comes tumbling down. Germany simply will not be the sole support and provider to Europe. They will end the EU first.

 

[mudwhistle]

The Far Right
The far right in French politics is occupied by two parties, the Front National (National Front, founded by Jean Marie Le Pen, and currently led (2011) by his daughter Marine le Pen), and the Mouvement pour la France (MPF). The FN is a classic extreme right-wing party, similar to Britain's BNP, campaigning on a ticket of national preference, law and order, and anti-immigration. The MPF is a sovereignist party, more similar to Britain's UKIP, with whom it is allied in the EFT movement in the European parliament; it is seen as a moderate right-wing party, and attracts conservative traditionalists such as its quite popular leader Philippe de Villiers, an aristocrat and former Gaullist minister. Both parties call for withdrawal from the European Union, or a massive curtailment of the EU's role.

The mainstream right
At present (2012), the political right in France is more coherent and united than the left. The main "conservative" party is the UMP - Union pour un Mouvement Populaire. This is the biggest political party in France, and the reason that it has achieved this status is that like Britain's Conservatives and America's Republicans, it is a party that encompasses a fairly broad range of political opinion, including traditional conservatives, social liberals, and also a Thatcherite or neo-conservative right.
The main political parties in France - About-France.com

Hopefully this helps a little in the debate, it does seem based on this reading that the "conservatives" in France at least are more akin to "moderates or even blue dogs" here, or even a party that includes all of them with the extremes represented by parties on the left and right.

Thanks. The reason I started this thread was to inform and to get everyone's input, not just MSNBC's opinion or Fox New's opinion.

 

[Avorysuds]

From the OP:

"What socialists like Obama have been doing is flushing government with cash in the form of bail outs and stimulus."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QDxcrcpY98]Romney - Believe in Bailouts - YouTube[/ame] the Socialist Mitt supports TARP that the Socialist Bush passed.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCE75NKp4S8]Recovery Act: Mitt Romney flip-flops on the Recovery Act - WhichMitt.com - YouTube[/ame] Mitt the Socialist supports a Stimulus, stimulus's that the socialist Bush and Republicans did 2 of.


I'd ask if this means you won't be voting for a Socialist in the GE but something tells me both the right and left have shifted so far left they don't know either what a socialist anymore or maybe it's something else that I can't put my finger on.

The OP destroyed his own candidate, I simply provided the video of that candidate giving his socialist positions.

 

[Newby]

I'm guessing they won't last long, unless they immediately set up an 'exit tax' that steals all the wealth before it leaves the country. That will prop them up a little longer perhaps. Atlas Shrugged come to life.

http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/business/3321-wealthy-french-to-leave-sinking-ship-france.html

"Soak the rich"


"One thing is for sure. Once the socialists take over France, tax will be raised to 75% for the wealthy who own income above one million euros. If you are rich, why would you want to give away €750,000 of your income to a socialist welfare system that pisses away your hard earned cash? This is why I am selling up immediately. Socialists have little or no understanding of finance, or business and this is why whenever they are in power, they literally **** everything up," Julien Pauvre, a retired shopkeeper and businessman from Lyons told Le Figaro.

The departure of France’s business people, entrepreneurs and the young for opportunities overseas will leave the country as a basic shell of itself and stifle all business.

"Socialism is a system that punishes innovation and business. There is nothing to work for, there is no hope for anyone who wants to work for a better life and build a business. This is why there will be a mass exodus now that Hollande has won," another scared French businessman said.


The only thing missing in this revolution is a guillotine or two and Sarko and his cronies being led away for the chop in front of the braying crowds.

 

[Mr.Nick]

The Euro was the worst economic idea ever.......

 

[francoHFW]

"Bad 'guess'"

Less austerity is what we need....as of now, we have gained back all the private jobs since 1/2009, but we're missing 607 k teachers, police, and firemen....Hollande wants to raise taxes on over 1 million Euros- NOT armageddon!! RW BULLSHYTE!!

 

[LordBrownTrout]

75 percent tax rate. Hell, why don't they just take it all.