Fourteen Characteristics of Fascism...

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Social activism is not antithetical to spiritual evolution so long as it serves to relieve the suffering of others and promote a sense of well-being and harmony.

But constantly inciting class envy and maligning the wealthy and business owners, is both unfair, unwarranted, and unharmonious. It's not very buddhist.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
But constantly inciting class envy and maligning the wealthy and business owners, is both unfair, unwarranted, and unharmonious. It's not very buddhist.

Envious, of what?

Wealth is, like anything else, a tool for good or ill. If that is considered "... maligning the wealthy..." I'm sorry you see it that way.

If pointing out that clinging to wealth for the sake of wealth is unhealthy is considered "... maligning the wealthy..." I am sorry you see it that way.

Business owners generate wealth in co-operation with those they employ, a point many seem to have forgotten...Especially those constantly fleeing to countries with weaker and weaker labor and environmental laws and dragging everyone into the mire with them.

But they see nothing beyond the next quarters earnings report. They should be free to act in their own best interests, but freedom entails responsibility. Responsibility to those they employ, responsibility to the communities they operate in. And to many of them have abdicated those responsibilities.

 

[Bern80]

Originally posted by Aquarian
that's exactly the attitude normal germans expressed during hitler's rise to power. Do not take that statement to mean that I think the gov't is fascist or that we are being horribly oppressed. I am however watching closely as it appears to me we have inched in that direction, baby steps if you will. not even sure that fascism is the term to use but some of the points above seem to apply more than I'd like them too. The idea that political dissent can lead to being called a traitor is very scary...

The points above assume however, that these additudes are fascist in nature. In the case of most of the pts i would disagree. If Bully is attempting to make the pt that the Bush admin engages in these activitites (again assuming they are actually fascist) he has failed miserably.

1) Displaying a flag or wearing a lapel pin is fascist? Give me a break.

2)agree w/ two, but not that the admin partakes in it.

3)If you are suggesting that Bin laden/terrorism and Saddam are scapegoats you are mistaken. They are a real threat to freedom in this world and no one is blaming them for our domestic problems.

4)What do you mean by supremacty of the military? If you mean powerful then yes, by nature army's are powerful. In the case of most countries, including this one, a nation haveing a strong military is analgous to a person owning a gun. With the hope of not having to use it.

5)First, i would not lump something positive like being anti-abortion with something negative like being homophobic. Second, sexism in this country, in my opinion, resulted in a fundamental lapse in judgement a few decades ago. That being a men gave women the impression that running a busines was more importatnt that running a household, and most women bought it hook line and sinker.

6) The exact opposite is the case in this country

7) Who should be in charge of national security? P.s. to worry about it is not fascist.

8) By this reasoning Muslims would be considered the most fascist of any culture.

9) Most corporation in this country are not as corrupt as you make them out to be.

10) you can not be pro-labor w/o being pro business or vice verse

11) What some percieve as disdain and suppression of intellectuals is proper critique of the overt liberalness of most social science teachers who exploit there positions by trying to pass there liberal opinions on to students as actual knowledge.

12) Lets see... break laws get punished, Definatley fascist.

13) Should corporation not be allowed to contribute to political campaigns? should they not have the same freedom of speech rights as everyone else?

14) Keep tryin' Bully

 

[eric]

Karma Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism, not that it really matters.

You just do not have the buddha mind !

 

[eric]

Try sitting in Zazen, it will help you greatly !

 

[Big D]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Karma Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism, not that it really matters.

Priceless

 

[eric]

You speak in your posts of things good and evil, as thought they were two and not one. Your grave attachments shall keep you in the karmic cycle of life, let them go, see the oneness of all, lose self, and you shall attain nirvana. Our actions do not bind us, just our attachments to our actions.

 

[AtlantaWalter]

"1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism"

THIS is a bad thing? I remember when be ing proud to be an American was a good thing.

"2. Disdain for the importance of human rights."

Not a disdain but the belief that the rights/survival of the race/tribe/nationality(whatever you want to call it) is more important than the rights of the individual.

"3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause."

This has been done by every nationgroup of people that ever existed. Remember the "huns" from WW1, the "Japs" from WW2? Democrats vs Republicans, Militia vs Government, Jew vs Arab.

"4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism."

The best way to assure ones' continued existence is by having a strong military.

"5. Rampant sexism"

Not sexism but proclaimation and assertion of the woman's rightful place of honor as the bearer of future generations and the person with the most influence on child-rearing.

"6. A controlled mass media"

Media should have some control over it, otherwise they may print/show/broadcast any and everything they so desire whether or not it is true. Mass media has the capability to control/sway public opinion/actions. If you don't think so, look at the gradual dumbing down of America and the creation of the couch potatoe. People would rather watch mindless sit-coms than get off of their ass and take part in the world about them.

"7. Obsession with national security."

I believe the purpose of a country is to protect those that live within its' borders from all enemies, foreign and domestic!!!

"8. Religion and ruling elite tied together."

I don't recall Hitler's regime as being overly catholic or protestant, nor was Mussolini's, nor Franco's; They all supported the right of the people to worship as they pleased.

"9. Power of corporations protected"
"10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated"

As long as they served the nation as a whole. In Germany, it was unlawful for the employees to go on strike but it was also unlawful for the owners of a factory to shut it down and have a "lock-out".

"11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.

I suppose Germany developed its' rocket program by denying the scientists their freedom of expression and the suppression of some art, i.e. today's urine in a bottle with a crucifix in it, etc. I also belive that Hermann Goering had one of the best art collections in Europe.

"12. Obsession with crime and punishment"

As opposed to what? Today's idea of letting criminals off scott free to committ more crimes.

"13. Rampant cronyism and corruption"

A human foible that has always and will always take place.

"14. Fraudulent elections"

I am not sure about others, but Adolf Hitler was legally elected to his position.

I suppose BullyPulpit would prefer a truly democratic America with only democrats serving in elected positions so that the rest of us could support them and their welfare seeking minions via an ever increasing tax program. Something along the lines of that commie loving Franklin Roosevelt and his gang would be nice; you know, the ones who instituted the income tax and gave Europe to the russians. Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick with a good old fashioned benevolent dictator anytime!!!!!



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[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by eric
You just do not have the buddha mind !

Sorry, social activism isn't antithetical to the buddha mind. It takes ones practice off the zabuton and into the real world. It is walking the walk.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by AtlantaWalter
1. THIS is a bad thing? I remember when be ing proud to be an American was a good thing.

2. Not a disdain but the belief that the rights/survival of the race/tribe/nationality(whatever you want to call it) is more important than the rights of the individual.

3. This has been done by every nationgroup of people that ever existed. Remember the "huns" from WW1, the "Japs" from WW2? Democrats vs Republicans, Militia vs Government, Jew vs Arab.

4. The best way to assure ones' continued existence is by having a strong military.

5. Not sexism but proclaimation and assertion of the woman's rightful place of honor as the bearer of future generations and the person with the most influence on child-rearing.

6. Media should have some control over it, otherwise they may print/show/broadcast any and everything they so desire whether or not it is true. Mass media has the capability to control/sway public opinion/actions. If you don't think so, look at the gradual dumbing down of America and the creation of the couch potatoe. People would rather watch mindless sit-coms than get off of their ass and take part in the world about them.

7. I believe the purpose of a country is to protect those that live within its' borders from all enemies, foreign and domestic!!!

8. I don't recall Hitler's regime as being overly catholic or protestant, nor was Mussolini's, nor Franco's; They all supported the right of the people to worship as they pleased.


9,10. As long as they served the nation as a whole. In Germany, it was unlawful for the employees to go on strike but it was also unlawful for the owners of a factory to shut it down and have a "lock-out".

11. I suppose Germany developed its' rocket program by denying the scientists their freedom of expression and the suppression of some art, i.e. today's urine in a bottle with a crucifix in it, etc. I also belive that Hermann Goering had one of the best art collections in Europe.

12. As opposed to what? Today's idea of letting criminals off scott free to committ more crimes.

13. A human foible that has always and will always take place.

14. I am not sure about others, but Adolf Hitler was legally elected to his position.

Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick with a good old fashioned benevolent dictator anytime!!!!!

1. Nothing wrong with pride. Arrogance is another story though.

2. The individual and society must live in balance with one another. Neither set above nor subsumed to the other.

3. Just because it has been done before doesn't make it right.

4. So long as one does not use it in pursuit of wars of aggression.

5. Barefoot and pregnant, a baby making machine. Yeah...Right.

6. That's what libel laws are for. An independent media is a neccessity for a democracy to function. If you don't like what you see, change the channel. As for the couch potatoes, they're a product of a generation to intellectually lazy to become engaged in anthing more than mindless sitcoms.

7. It has been a common tactic of despots throughout history to prey upon the fears of the populace in the name of "national security".

8. Hitler, and the others you mentioned, replaced the godhead with the state.

9 - 10. Enviromental, worker-safety, and product safety laws are being undermined by this administration. Labor unions have little or no political power in America.

11. The US goverment spends less, per capita, on the arts than any other member of the G-7. What it does fund, it tries to restrict to the views supported by those who authorize the funds. Nazi Germany's scientists were those who either implicitly or explicitly supported the Nazi agenda. Thus they were given free reign. As to Goering's art collection, it was looted...the spoils of war...a prize with no value beyond his ability to boast of it.

12. The US has more people in prison per capita than any nations outside of China and Russia. Our penal system is one of revenge rather than rehabilitation.

13. Indeed, but the revolving door between government and the private sector, and vice-versa has gotten larger and is spinning faster than ever before.

14. Are you sure about that? The Brown-shirts were in every voting precinct.

There is no such thing as a benevolent dictator.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Bullypulpit, could you describe concretely what would be the difference in your mind between a "dangerous expression of nationalism" and a regular expression of pride in country? You seem to want to smear what normal people consider regular patriotism, but you seem to back off when confronted.

 

[wonderwench]

Excellent question, RWA.

Pride, where there is a real superiority of attributes, will always be under good regulation. There is nothing wrong in feeling proud of something worthy.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Bullypulpit, could you describe concretely what would be the difference in your mind between a "dangerous expression of nationalism" and a regular expression of pride in country? You seem to want to smear what normal people consider regular patriotism, but you seem to back off when confronted.

Pride arises from the qualities that made this country great...Freedom, opportunity, social mobility, tolerance. It is earned.

A "dangerous expression of nationalism" is simply the result of arrogance and unfounded pride in dubious accomplishments.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Pride arises from the qualities that made this country great...Freedom, opportunity, social mobility, tolerance. It is earned.

A "dangerous expression of nationalism" is simply the result of arrogance and unfounded pride in dubious accomplishments.

Ummm. I said CONCRETELY.

What about defending the nations' right to defend itself from terrorist attack? Which one is that?

What about a street in anytown, usa with a flag on every stoop? Is that a dangerous expression of nationalism?


In short, BP, what is the dangerous expression of nationalism cited in your list? In a specific fashion, please tell us what the hell you're talking about.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Ummm. I said CONCRETELY.

What about defending the nations' right to defend itself from terrorist attack? Which one is that?

What about a street in anytown, usa with a flag on every stoop? Is that a dangerous expression of nationalism?


In short, BP, what is the dangerous expression of nationalism cited in your list? In a specific fashion, please tell us what the hell you're talking about.

A "dangerous expression of nationalism" occurs when a nations leaders engage in mindless jingoism and the populace blindly, unquestioningly follows.

Flying the flag "on every stoop" does not constitute such an expression, unless its meaning has become undermined and debased by the actions of a country's leaders.

The swastika, for instance, is a Tibetan symbol for life, but it was utterly debased by Germany's Nazi Party and the actions of its leader, Adolph Hitler. Through his campaign of genocide and war, a symbol of life was utterly transformed into a symbol of death and destruction.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
What about defending the nations' right to defend itself from terrorist attack? Which one is that?

By what means does the nation defend itself from terrorist attack?

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
The swastika, for instance, is a Tibetan symbol for life, but it was utterly debased by Germany's Nazi Party and the actions of its leader, Adolph Hitler. Through his campaign of genocide and war, a symbol of life was utterly transformed into a symbol of death and destruction.

You just described what us Southerners think about the KKK and other white supremacist groups using the Confederate battle flag as their symbol. Pisses me off.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
By what means does the nation defend itself from terrorist attack?

Exactly. You have no clue.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Exactly. You have no clue.

DO the means justify the end? Do we indisriminately bomb the shit out of any third world banana republic we suspect of harboring terrorists?

Or do we use international law enforcement and intelligence agencies to pinpoint the terrorist cells and let the good folks in special ops remove them surgically?

Or, and this is a novel approach, do we help provide education, infrastructure, healthcare and viable economic development to these third world banana republics, and kill a whole generation of terrorists without firing a shot?

The first is the idiocy currently being practiced by Dubbyuh and Co. Too much blowback, to be avoided at all costs.

The second is far preferable to the first, but not ideal. Like the hydra, the terror cells grow new heads.

The latter is the best, and most cost effective choice. When done, and done properly, it only needs to be done once.

 

[wonderwench]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
DO the means justify the end? Do we indisriminately bomb the shit out of any third world banana republic we suspect of harboring terrorists?

Or do we use international law enforcement and intelligence agencies to pinpoint the terrorist cells and let the good folks in special ops remove them surgically?

Or, and this is a novel approach, do we help provide education, infrastructure, healthcare and viable economic development to these third world banana republics, and kill a whole generation of terrorists without firing a shot?

The first is the idiocy currently being practiced by Dubbyuh and Co. Too much blowback, to be avoided at all costs.

The second is far preferable to the first, but not ideal. Like the hydra, the terror cells grow new heads.

The latter is the best, and most cost effective choice. When done, and done properly, it only needs to be done once.

You are completely off base. The first is NOT how the US has acted. We asked the UN to enforce its resolutions and waited YEARS, to no avial.

The second is specious - there are no international law enforcement and intelligence agencies. There is no World Government.

The third we have done for decades. The US is the most generous world power in the history of human kind. But in the end, each country is sovereign. If it wishes to bite us when we have offered aid and friendship, then it is responsible for the consequences.