Fla. Gov. calls for investigation into Student suspension over word Jesus

[PoliticalChic]

Would you be "offended" if she had used Obama's name?

I know I wouldn't.

"He," not she.


Are you having trouble seeing the forest for the trees?


Universities' raison d'être is to kill any belief in traditional religion.

This can be seen in Woodrow Wilson’s speech as president of Princeton:
“Our problem is not merely to help students to adjust to themselves to world life…[but] to make them as unlike their fathers as we can.”
Michael McGerr, “A Fierce Discontent: The Rise and Fall of the Progressive Movement in America, 1870-1920,” p. 111

Nonsense.

The term is only applicable to your view of the incident.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

university instructor told students to write the word 'Jesus' on paper, throw it on the floor and stomp on it

What exactly was the professor trying to teach?
Is their apology good enough.... Hell no, someone needs to be fired.
There is absolutely no excuse for this type of behavior from the professor and there is no excuse for the University for backing him up.

The class was on symbolism.

The entire point of the exercise was that people would object to it - the point of the exercise is that people would hesitate to step on a piece of paper with Jesus written on it - a symbol with no actual religious meaning - because their mind would associate that symbol with what it represents.

It was actually quite a good lesson plan - and if anything, the whole "scandal" about it proved the professor's point.

So he could haver chosen the word "obama" but didn't?

He didn't "chose" the word "Obama" because it wouldn't make any sense to do so. It would make the exercise pointless.

 

[Circe]

Stepping on the word "Jesus" is "reprehensible to Christians"?

Certainly in this case. Stepping on a bookpage by accident with that name printed on it would not be reprehensible, but the point here was explicitly to disrespect the religious symbol.

How does stepping on a piece of paper with the word "Jesus" written on it "teach students to despise the concept of God"?

Wouldn't getting students to step on paper with "Allah" be understood as a way to disrespect Islam? Many might do it enthusiastically, since the Islamists bombed New York, but I predict there would be big trouble for the Florida university that did that. Say, didn't that Koran-burning pastor come from Florida? Why can't he burn the Koran? It's just paper, right? So no problem, right?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Seeing as I've read the lesson plan, I think I do have a pretty good idea as to what the point of the exercise was.

The university apologizing for something doesn't mean that they actually had something to apologize for.

Produce the "lesson plan".

It's from this textbook: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Intercultural-Communication-A-Contextual-Approach/dp/1412976898]Intercultural Communication: A Contextual Approach: James W. Neuliep: 9781412976893: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

Here's a synopsis from FOX:

Professor Makes Students ?Stomp on Jesus? | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

“Have the students write the name JESUS in big letters on a piece of paper,” the lesson reads. “Ask the students to stand up and put the paper on the floor in front of them with the name facing up. Ask the students to think about it for a moment. After a brief period of silence instruct them to step on the paper. Most will hesitate. Ask why they can’t step on the paper. Discuss the importance of symbols in culture.”

This isn't proof of anything other than there's more than one idiot in this owrld.

 

[Circe]

So he could haver chosen the word "obama" but didn't?


He didn't "chose" the word "Obama" because it wouldn't make any sense to do so. It would make the exercise pointless.

Not at all ---- that's probably what he should have done. That might arouse some consternation in at least some students, and they could have talked about that.

Does that bother you, Doctor, the idea of someone so disrespecting Obama as to order a class to write his name on paper and step on it?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Stepping on the word "Jesus" is "reprehensible to Christians"?

Certainly in this case. Stepping on a bookpage by accident with that name printed on it would not be reprehensible, but the point here was explicitly to disrespect the religious symbol.

How is a piece of paper with the word "Jesus" on it a "religious symbol"?

How does stepping on a piece of paper with the word "Jesus" written on it "teach students to despise the concept of God"?

Wouldn't getting students to step on paper with "Allah" be understood as a way to disrespect Islam?

No.

Many might do it enthusiastically, since the Islamists bombed New York, but I predict there would be big trouble for the Florida university that did that. Say, didn't that Koran-burning pastor come from Florida? Why can't he burn the Koran? It's just paper, right? So no problem, right?

The Koran is a religious symbol. A piece of paper with "Jesus" written on it is not.

 

[tinydancer]

Yeah I really believe a devout Mormon student is going to threaten to punch out a teacher.



What bullshit rumor is this? Link?

I'm trying to find the link.

As I said initially, I don't necessarily believe those rumors. The point is there's more to the story.

One of the problems with stories like these is we seldom get both sides of the story due to possible legal actions. Usually, the university is constrained from being able to provide a full accounting of it's side so we just hear what the student has to say.

I agree there is likely more to the story than meets the eye and the context of the assignment is being totally ignored as it gets built up into a hysterical - Christianity is being attacked while another religion isn't - mentality.

You slag Jesus you slag Islam. This isn't just about Christianity. Jesus is huge in Islam. Major big prophet.

This is not about Christianity whining. The student didn't make any moves until he found out to his surprise he was suspended.

And I'm sorry as I can be, for all the posters who are saying that there is more to the story than meets the eye, prove it.

I've given my link.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So he could haver chosen the word "obama" but didn't?


He didn't "chose" the word "Obama" because it wouldn't make any sense to do so. It would make the exercise pointless.

Not at all ---- that's probably what he should have done. That might arouse some consternation in at least some students, and they could have talked about that.

No matter how much you guys like to repeat it, "Obama" is not anywhere near as powerful a symbol as "Jesus".

Does that bother you, Doctor, the idea of someone so disrespecting Obama as to order a class to write his name on paper and step on it?

As I've already said in this thread, I would not be the slightest bit offended if they had stepped on a piece of paper with "Obama" written on it.

If you like, I can do it right now.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Produce the "lesson plan".

It's from this textbook: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Intercultural-Communication-A-Contextual-Approach/dp/1412976898]Intercultural Communication: A Contextual Approach: James W. Neuliep: 9781412976893: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

Here's a synopsis from FOX:

Professor Makes Students ?Stomp on Jesus? | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

“Have the students write the name JESUS in big letters on a piece of paper,” the lesson reads. “Ask the students to stand up and put the paper on the floor in front of them with the name facing up. Ask the students to think about it for a moment. After a brief period of silence instruct them to step on the paper. Most will hesitate. Ask why they can’t step on the paper. Discuss the importance of symbols in culture.”

This isn't proof of anything other than there's more than one idiot in this owrld.

Well, it's "proof" that the purpose of the lesson was to discuss the power of symbols, not to offend Christians.

But I guess you'd prefer to continue being outraged.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm trying to find the link.

As I said initially, I don't necessarily believe those rumors. The point is there's more to the story.

One of the problems with stories like these is we seldom get both sides of the story due to possible legal actions. Usually, the university is constrained from being able to provide a full accounting of it's side so we just hear what the student has to say.

I agree there is likely more to the story than meets the eye and the context of the assignment is being totally ignored as it gets built up into a hysterical - Christianity is being attacked while another religion isn't - mentality.

You slag Jesus you slag Islam. This isn't just about Christianity. Jesus is huge in Islam. Major big prophet.

This is not about Christianity whining. The student didn't make any moves until he found out to his surprise he was suspended.

It most certainly is about Christians whining. A quick google search will turn out the same outrage-inducing article on every major Christian and RR website in the country.

I haven't seen any Muslim groups getting pissy about this.

And I'm sorry as I can be, for all the posters who are saying that there is more to the story than meets the eye, prove it.

You know that's impossible. The school is prevented from releasing any information about it, due to privacy laws.

If you want to accept one side of the story as gospel, that's your business - but I will continue to consider that naive.

I've given my link.

And, as I said - feel free to believe it wholeheartedly. I can't stop you from doing so.

 

[Circe]

As I've already said in this thread, I would not be the slightest bit offended if they had stepped on a piece of paper with "Obama" written on it.

If you like, I can do it right now.

Please do! You're at work, right?

To gain maximal comparison with the news event, you should do this in a common space where people are passing.

First do Obama, and then if you feel not enough outrage has been engendered, try the original example.

Could be quite interesting.

 

[Coyote]

You don't have a clue as what the purpose of the exercise was. The university apologized because what happened was wrong. Period.

You haven't been right about a lot of things on this issue including the gender of the professor. Why not shut up before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself?

Seeing as I've read the lesson plan, I think I do have a pretty good idea as to what the point of the exercise was.

The university apologizing for something doesn't mean that they actually had something to apologize for.

Produce the "lesson plan".

It's in the article quoted in the OP.

 

[Circe]

The Koran is a religious symbol. A piece of paper with "Jesus" written on it is not.

Are you the one who gets to decide that?

Huh! And here I thought people got to decide things like that for themselves, and millions think the exercise was an outrage. How were you planning on convincing them that the Jesus paper is not a religious symbol? So far, I'd say they've got you wildly outnumbered.

In fact, I'm beginning to lose faith that you really ARE the person who gets to decide about that sort of thing.

 

[Coyote]

It's from this textbook: Intercultural Communication: A Contextual Approach: James W. Neuliep: 9781412976893: Amazon.com: Books

Here's a synopsis from FOX:

Professor Makes Students ?Stomp on Jesus? | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

This isn't proof of anything other than there's more than one idiot in this owrld.

Well, it's "proof" that the purpose of the lesson was to discuss the power of symbols, not to offend Christians.

But I guess you'd prefer to continue being outraged.

That's exactly it. A selective outrage I might add.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

As I've already said in this thread, I would not be the slightest bit offended if they had stepped on a piece of paper with "Obama" written on it.

If you like, I can do it right now.

Please do! You're at work, right?

To gain maximal comparison with the news event, you should do this in a common space where people are passing.

First do Obama, and then if you feel not enough outrage has been engendered, try the original example.

Could be quite interesting.

I work at home, so there's no common space where people are passing.

But that brings us to what do other people passing by have to do with anything?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The Koran is a religious symbol. A piece of paper with "Jesus" written on it is not.

Are you the one who gets to decide that?

Huh! And here I thought people got to decide things like that for themselves, and millions think the exercise was an outrage. How were you planning on convincing them that the Jesus paper is not a religious symbol? So far, I'd say they've got you wildly outnumbered.

In fact, I'm beginning to lose faith that you really ARE the person who gets to decide about that sort of thing.

Actually, the religions themselves decide that.

What sect of Christianity consecrates pieces of paper with "Jesus" written on them?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"Torment"? The exercise was optional - no one was "forced" to do anything - and I don't know of any rule in Christianity that forbids stepping on Jesus's name.

And we only have the student's side of the story - we don't know why he was actually suspended, only what he claims was the reason.

You guys are insisting on painting this as an anti-Christianity thing, which is really missing the entire point.

Well, first and foremost, Jesus is a huge prophet in Islam so this isn't just anti Christian, this is anti Islam if one wants to really go at this.

Jesus is a biggie. Every time some one wants to slag Jesus, they're slagging Islam too.

Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist)

Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



And it's not the students side of the story for crying out loud. Read the article. The University has apologized and admitted that this was insensitive.

First of all, my point was that the lesson wasn't "anti-religious", in any way. It was a lesson in the power of symbols, and how our brain reacts to them. This thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Does writing Jesus's name on a piece of paper, then stepping on it somehow "hurt" Jesus? Does the piece of paper somehow gain some religious value when Jesus's name is written on it, becoming more than just a piece of paper?

As for the University "apologizing" - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's a lot more likely that they're "apologizing" for PR reasons than because they actually think anything was wrong.

We only have the student's side of the story in terms of exactly why he was suspended.

I note that you selectively ignored all the posts pointing out that it is NOT just one students claim, the school apologized for the incident, if as you inferred, the Student did something wrong, the school would not have apologized, if as you inferred , the Instructor did not cross a line, the school would not have apologized.

But keep on ignoring the point.

 

[Desperado]

It isn't about a piece of paper with "Jesus" written on it.
It is about the show of utter disrespect for other people and their beliefs.
Not sure why that is so hard to grasp.

 

[Katzndogz]

The student should have written the teacher's name on the paper and stomped on it.

 

[Desperado]

The student should have written the teacher's name on the paper and stomped on it.

I like that idea. It would have been perfect.