Federal judge: NSA phone data collection program unconstitutional

Little-Acorn

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Sounds like the Judiciary is starting to realize what normal people have known all along: The government indiscriminatingly gathering data on what people are doing, who they are calling, etc. without a warrant, is a violation of the 4th amendment.

Chief Justice John Roberts has proven adept at rewriting laws and ruling them Constitutional. He might have a little more trouble rewriting physical actions, such as data collection, though. Might he simply rewrite the 4th amendment instead?

4th amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized, unless the government official really, really wants to have the things to be seized, in which case it is OK.


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Judge: NSA phone program likely unconstitutional - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com

Judge: NSA phone program likely unconstitutional

by JOSH GERSTEIN
12/16/13 1:36 PM EST
Updated: 12/16/13 3:51 PM EST

A federal judge ruled Monday that the National Security Agency program which collects information on nearly all telephone calls made to, from or within the United States is likely unconstitutional.

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Leon found that the program appears to violate the Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches and seizures. He also said the Justice Department had failed to demonstrate that collecting the information had helped to head off terrorist attacks.

“I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘arbitrary invasion’ than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying it and analyzing it without judicial approval,” wrote Leon, an appointee of President George W. Bush.
 

Avorysuds

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We all knew this, they just found this out... And Obama is still defending doing it. Obama is on the wrong side of history, again.

Lol, I so love using mindless talking points! Wrong side of history, lol, feels great!
 

Vox

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He's absolutely right!
Who is absolutely right? Judge Leon or Chief Justice Roberts?
Chief Justice Roberts has not had a chance to voice his opinion on this matter.

It is in the lower court so far. It will be appealed. If it would be taken by SCOTUS - then we might hear Chief's Justice opinion.

And as much as I hate Obamacare, Roberts was actually right.

We, the people could have thrown the TAX where it belongs.

Way too many decided that they are ABOVE the fight.
 

Katzndogz

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The obama regime is a criminal enterprise. We knew that all along.
 

Steven_R

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Warrentless wiretaps.
Blanket searches.
Secret courts.
Shadow judges.
Star Chambers.
Prisoners kept incommunicado.
Police going house to house in search of terrorists.

And it's all being done in the name of freedom.

You want to know what tyranny looks like? It's here.
 

Desperado

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A federal judge ruled Monday that the National Security Agency program which collects information on nearly all telephone calls made to, from or within the United States is likely unconstitutional.

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Leon found that the program appears to violate the Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches and seizures. He also said the Justice Department had failed to demonstrate that collecting the information had helped to head off terrorist attacks.

“I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘arbitrary invasion’ than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying it and analyzing it without judicial approval,” wrote Leon, an appointee of President George W. Bush.
Yet the searches will continue. The judge stayed his ruling until the NSA can appeal his decision.
 

g5000

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The obama regime is a criminal enterprise. We knew that all along.
Were you by any chance born on January 20, 2009? Perhaps came out of an 8 year coma that day?
 

Vox

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The obama regime is a criminal enterprise. We knew that all along.
yet it still has a die hard defenders as we all can observe even in this thread
 

g5000

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In 2003, Slate magazine wrote a guide to the USA PATRIOT Act. In Part 1, they warned about the dangers of Section 215.

Section 215 is one of the surprising lightning rods of the Patriot Act, engendering more protest, lawsuits, and congressional amendments than any other. In part this is because this section authorizes the government to march into a library and demand a list of everyone who's ever checked out a copy of My Secret Garden but also because those librarians are tough.

What it does: Section 215 modifies the rules on records searches. Post-Patriot Act, third-party holders of your financial, library, travel, video rental, phone, medical, church, synagogue, and mosque records can be searched without your knowledge or consent, providing the government says it's trying to protect against terrorism.
You were warned. You were warned 10 years ago.

In 2006, you were told this was going on. You were told this was going on 7 years ago.


This Klayman court case is all about that Section. Section 215.


Don't be a partisan hack and say this is all on Obama. Don't pretend the vast majority of faux conservatives weren't okay with this massive intrusion into our private lives when Bush was doing it.

Basically, don't be an idiot. It is time to wake up. Many of you have been useful idiots to half the people behind this. Useful idiots to the people who originated this.

Your sudden discovery of the Constitution on January 20, 2009 isn't fooling anyone.
 
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WelfareQueen

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This is the language in the Constitution that is supposed to protect us.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."


Collecting vast amounts of data on American citizens without a warrant is a clear violation of all of our Constitutional Rights. Good for this judge.

And yes, I blame both Bush and Obama for these violations of our rights.
 

Steven_R

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As much as I blame Bush, Obama, and Congress for these stupid laws, I blame the courts for not putting an end to them. I don't see any provision in the Fourth Amendment that allows the government to grope my beanbag so I can get on an airplane, but the courts have allowed it. I don't see an excepting allowing house-to-house searching like we saw in Boston, but the courts won't stop it. I don't see the authority given to the NSA, but you know the courts won't rein the government in.

Even worse than that, I blame the American people for not demanding Congress fix this situation and telling Congress if they won't, we will either at the ballot box or with pitchforks...bit Football and Dancing With The Stars is on.
 
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DoItMyself

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One more reason we need to slash government, including military. Its dangerous. When our Founders broke away, they had to fight what was at the time their OWN military, the British redcoats. The military is dangerous to us.
 

JakeStarkey

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Curbing the DOD will go along way to restoring other rights as well.
 

Dot Com

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The obama regime is a criminal enterprise. We knew that all along.
who is "we" Katzy? :eusa_eh: Didn't you vote for the guy who created DHS?

As to the OP, yeah, I agree, its a big gov't overreach AND a colossal waste of $$$
 

Vox

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As much as I blame Bush, Obama, and Congress for these stupid laws, I blame the courts for not putting an end to them. I don't see any provision in the Fourth Amendment that allows the government to grope my beanbag so I can get on an airplane, but the courts have allowed it. I don't see an excepting allowing house-to-house searching like we saw in Boston, but the courts won't stop it. I don't see the authority given to the NSA, but you know the courts won't rein the government in.

Even worse than that, I blame the American people for not demanding Congress fix this situation and telling Congress if they won't, we will either at the ballot box or with pitchforks...bit Football and Dancing With The Stars is on.
well, the court system is slow. It has been started.
But it will take months, if not years.
 

Clementine

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Sounds like the Judiciary is starting to realize what normal people have known all along: The government indiscriminatingly gathering data on what people are doing, who they are calling, etc. without a warrant, is a violation of the 4th amendment.

Chief Justice John Roberts has proven adept at rewriting laws and ruling them Constitutional. He might have a little more trouble rewriting physical actions, such as data collection, though. Might he simply rewrite the 4th amendment instead?

4th amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized, unless the government official really, really wants to have the things to be seized, in which case it is OK.


------------------------------------------

Judge: NSA phone program likely unconstitutional - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com

Judge: NSA phone program likely unconstitutional

by JOSH GERSTEIN
12/16/13 1:36 PM EST
Updated: 12/16/13 3:51 PM EST

A federal judge ruled Monday that the National Security Agency program which collects information on nearly all telephone calls made to, from or within the United States is likely unconstitutional.

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Leon found that the program appears to violate the Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches and seizures. He also said the Justice Department had failed to demonstrate that collecting the information had helped to head off terrorist attacks.

“I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘arbitrary invasion’ than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying it and analyzing it without judicial approval,” wrote Leon, an appointee of President George W. Bush.
The sad part about this news is that it will actually be news to some people. Many of us didn't need a judge to weigh in to know that the extensive spying is unconstitutional.

Maybe now a judge will rule on the ability of government to arrest people without warrants and hold them indefinitely without allowing them to call a lawyer. Oh, and then there is the killing of people without proof, charges or a trial. Didn't Obama recently comment that he was really good at killing people?

So, yea, we all know the government has reached a level of dictatorship that our forefathers intended to avoid. If only politicians of today understood all the reasons for our constitution. Maybe they do and just disagree that people should have freedom and liberty instead of a tyrant to control them.

What concerns me at this point is what the government intended to do with the information collected through this illegal spying. Considering they extended the definition of a terrorist to mean anyone against a socialist agenda, the real patriots should have reason to fear government. Really, ex-military, gun owners, constitutionalists, those who speak out against big government and those who want our immigration laws upheld made the list of potential threats. (not to the nation, only to the current radical regime) While the left isn't afraid to bash anyone on the above list, they refuse to even talk about radical Muslim terrorists. They don't hesitate to paint all gun owners with the same brush and protesters carry signs blaming the NRA for school shootings, yet after countless terrorist attacks, they still defend all Muslims and get angry if they think others have become leery of Muslims. Only the right can be lumped in one group and impugned. They like grouping people and are apparently incapable of judging on a case by case basis. That individual stuff confuses them.

We know how the left adores communist dictators. And those dictators, who routinely murder political enemies, are rarely criticized by the left. Obama would rather shake their hands than openly oppose them. We know damn well that dictators, past and present, find ways to learn what people are thinking and saying. And they don't tolerate people saying things against them. It's not allowed and the people who speak out are often murdered.

The Obamabots would ask us to trust Obama with everything, from our most personal information to how we live everyday. Sorry, that will never happen and that level of trust has never been warranted or given to any dictator. Castro would tell us that his people worship him, but the truth is that people are living scared and afraid to go against any evil regime.

Knowing that our government now has authority over our lives that any tyrant would envy doesn't make me feel safer. Government is too inept and corrupt to entrust with such power.

Now the question is what will be done about this unconstitutional spying by government? Any other person would be tried and put in prison. I'm sure the politicians will just have to say they'll change and things will continue. Never any punishment doled out for criminal regimes.

This is all a great example of Obama's narcissism. He thinks his administration has a right to know virtually anything about the people, yet he paid big bucks to lawyers to seal all of his own records. Maybe that was the first place NSA should have started IF the goal was to make the country safer.
 
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Destroyer2

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I think the real question should not be if it is unconstitutional.

The real questions are "How could it possibly have been ruled constitutional in the first place?" and "Why hasn't it been ruled unconstitutional yet?"
 

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