Father of Oregon killer blames GUNS, not son, for massacre?

[JoeB131]

Gun ownership is not a privilege, its a CIVIL RIGHT!

And if a majority decides it isn't, and it has no problem confiscating your guns, then what?

Do you shoot the policeman who comes to collect yours?

(Waiting to see if he falls into the trap.)

 

[JoeB131]

It is not a privilege, dum-dum. It is a natural right that we as free people have that the government only recognizes. The government in THIS country doesn't get to "give" rights, as they already exist. You just don't understand what "rights" are and you think they are "given." You don't recognize people as being sovereign beings and you want to see them under control of one government entity. That's your problem. Sorry Joe, but that is not "American."

Then how is it that eveyr other western Democracy doesn't recognize this "right" and either bans private gun ownership or limits it to select inviduals?

Why is the "Right to bear arms" just limited to guns. (The word "Gun" appears nowhere in the 2nd Amendment, BTW)? Why doesn't it apply to mortars, missiles, anthrax, chemical weapons, etc.

As for what is and isn't American- This is the only industrialied Democracy that insisted until the very end that some people were property to be owned. Where were their "Rights"?

People didn't have the right to vote if their skin was a certain color until very recently. (You know, what you right-wingers like to call "The Good Old Days")

I understand what rights are perfectly well. They are what the majority concedes is kind of reasonable.

 

[JoeB131]

Crazy? Since when is being on the side of the people and rights crazy? Not to mention, you've gone as far as to talk about locking people up unconstitutionally! I think you should probably move to a country where the government has strict control over everything the people do and controls every aspect of their lives. Obviously, you are too fearful to be a "free" person in a free land. You need a governmental mommy to keep you safe.

No, I just need govenrment to keep me safe from losers with Tiny Dicks who want to shoot shit up.

If you guys can't police your own, someone else will.

 

[ChrisL]

It is not a privilege, dum-dum. It is a natural right that we as free people have that the government only recognizes. The government in THIS country doesn't get to "give" rights, as they already exist. You just don't understand what "rights" are and you think they are "given." You don't recognize people as being sovereign beings and you want to see them under control of one government entity. That's your problem. Sorry Joe, but that is not "American."

Then how is it that eveyr other western Democracy doesn't recognize this "right" and either bans private gun ownership or limits it to select inviduals?

Why is the "Right to bear arms" just limited to guns. (The word "Gun" appears nowhere in the 2nd Amendment, BTW)? Why doesn't it apply to mortars, missiles, anthrax, chemical weapons, etc.

As for what is and isn't American- This is the only industrialied Democracy that insisted until the very end that some people were property to be owned. Where were their "Rights"?

People didn't have the right to vote if their skin was a certain color until very recently. (You know, what you right-wingers like to call "The Good Old Days")

I understand what rights are perfectly well. They are what the majority concedes is kind of reasonable.

Because they are not America and don't have a Bill of Rights for their people. Our founders wanted to protect US against government tyranny. How many times do you need to be told this? Why is that you still don't understand this basic and simple concept?

The founders would have not have been able to see into the future of all the different weapons we would have today. Duh.

America is about the people, by the people, for the people. Not the government. If you want to live without rights, then go move to another country because WE are not going to give up our rights as American citizens so that you can feel safe.

Like Ben Franklin said, those willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Gun ownership is not a privilege, its a CIVIL RIGHT!

And if a majority decides it isn't, and it has no problem confiscating your guns, then what?

Do you shoot the policeman who comes to collect yours?

(Waiting to see if he falls into the trap.)

You and MLK have something in common: you both have a dream.

 

[JoeB131]

No...as has been pointed out constantly and which you choose to ignore, since you are a lefty gun grabber, criminals ignore your laws and get their guns in 3 ways....they steal the guns, they get someone with a clean record to buy the gun for them, or they get them from other criminals who already got them through the other two methods.......

None of which they would be able to do if Guns were readily available.

Hey, once again- EVERYONE ELSE HAS FIGURED THIS OUT. Civilians don't need guns and when they don't have them, crooks can't get them either.

The real reason why criminals can get guns unlike a country like Germany that allows regulated gun ownership, is because you have a gun industry that makes it easy for crooks to get guns. Like the rule that if you haven't completed a background chekc in three days, the sale goes through.

Start holding the gun industry responsible, throw a few dealers in prison and sock the manufacturers with a few billion in rulings, you'll be amazed how quickly the cool on "rights" and "Founding Fathers" and all the other shit.

 

[ChrisL]

No...as has been pointed out constantly and which you choose to ignore, since you are a lefty gun grabber, criminals ignore your laws and get their guns in 3 ways....they steal the guns, they get someone with a clean record to buy the gun for them, or they get them from other criminals who already got them through the other two methods.......

None of which they would be able to do if Guns were readily available.

Hey, once again- EVERYONE ELSE HAS FIGURED THIS OUT. Civilians don't need guns and when they don't have them, crooks can't get them either.

The real reason why criminals can get guns unlike a country like Germany that allows regulated gun ownership, is because you have a gun industry that makes it easy for crooks to get guns. Like the rule that if you haven't completed a background chekc in three days, the sale goes through.

Start holding the gun industry responsible, throw a few dealers in prison and sock the manufacturers with a few billion in rulings, you'll be amazed how quickly the cool on "rights" and "Founding Fathers" and all the other shit.

This is a load of bullshit, and you know it. You are just a government lackey. That much is very obvious. Guns have been a part of American culture since there was an America. The problem isn't the guns. It's that there are some people that would abuse their rights. Some people will murder other people too. That's not going to change if you take away the tool, fool.

 

[JoeB131]

Because they are not America and don't have a Bill of Rights for their people. Our founders wanted to protect US against government tyranny. How many times do you need to be told this? Why is that you still don't understand this basic and simple concept?

Our government has more police, more army, more weapons than any other industrialized democracy.

Our cops shoot unarmed kids in parks while Japanese Cops can go a whole career without drawing their guns.

I don't worry about "government tyranny". History has shown that the worst governments in history have been enthusiastically supported by their people. The fact a demagogue like Donald Trump can poll well shows how thin the rod of "Freedom" is.

Fact is, every time someone has taken up arms against the government, THE GOVERNMENT WON! From the Civil War to Waco. So what you are arguing for is kind of silly. YOu are arguing for suicide by cop.

I do worry about a gun industry that sells weapons to crazy people so everyone else is scared.

 

[JoeB131]

This is a load of bullshit, and you know it. You are just a government lackey. That much is very obvious. Guns have been a part of American culture since there was an America. The problem isn't the guns. It's that there are some people that would abuse their rights. Some people will murder other people too. That's not going to change if you take away the tool, fool.

Blantant racism has been part of America since there's been an America. that doesn't make it a good idea.

And, yes, you take away a tool, it happens a lot less often. It's why we have 16,000 Murders and Japan only has 600. (11,000 with guns vs. 11 with guns.)

 

[JoeB131]

Like Ben Franklin said, those willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.

I think we can do better than the wisdom of some 300 year old **** who shit in a chamberpot.

How about giving us a good reason why we should let Adam Lanza have a machine gun in the here and now.

 

[ChrisL]

Because they are not America and don't have a Bill of Rights for their people. Our founders wanted to protect US against government tyranny. How many times do you need to be told this? Why is that you still don't understand this basic and simple concept?

Our government has more police, more army, more weapons than any other industrialized democracy.

Our cops shoot unarmed kids in parks while Japanese Cops can go a whole career without drawing their guns.

I don't worry about "government tyranny". History has shown that the worst governments in history have been enthusiastically supported by their people. The fact a demagogue like Donald Trump can poll well shows how thin the rod of "Freedom" is.

Fact is, every time someone has taken up arms against the government, THE GOVERNMENT WON! From the Civil War to Waco. So what you are arguing for is kind of silly. YOu are arguing for suicide by cop.

I do worry about a gun industry that sells weapons to crazy people so everyone else is scared.

And you want only the police and criminals to be armed. Stupid.

And yet, here you are advocating for ONLY police and criminals to be armed. Again, stupid and shows that you really haven't given this a thought beyond your own "fearfulness" of being shot which, unless you are involved with some kind of criminal activity, is more unlikely than you being hit by a car or dying in a car accident. That is a fact.

That is absolutely untrue. The Revolutionary War.

The "gun industry" isn't selling guns to crazy people. Crazy people sometimes find ways around the laws to get guns and will continue to do so.

 

[2aguy]

It is not a privilege, dum-dum. It is a natural right that we as free people have that the government only recognizes. The government in THIS country doesn't get to "give" rights, as they already exist. You just don't understand what "rights" are and you think they are "given." You don't recognize people as being sovereign beings and you want to see them under control of one government entity. That's your problem. Sorry Joe, but that is not "American."

Then how is it that eveyr other western Democracy doesn't recognize this "right" and either bans private gun ownership or limits it to select inviduals?

Why is the "Right to bear arms" just limited to guns. (The word "Gun" appears nowhere in the 2nd Amendment, BTW)? Why doesn't it apply to mortars, missiles, anthrax, chemical weapons, etc.

As for what is and isn't American- This is the only industrialied Democracy that insisted until the very end that some people were property to be owned. Where were their "Rights"?

People didn't have the right to vote if their skin was a certain color until very recently. (You know, what you right-wingers like to call "The Good Old Days")

I understand what rights are perfectly well. They are what the majority concedes is kind of reasonable.

Every other Western democracy marched their people into death camps or recently participated in ethnic cleansing......

They ban guns in order to control their people....because they don't trust their people ....and as history shows the Europeans should be far more concerned about their governments than armed normal people.

Slavery was brought here from Africa by Europeans...those same people you keep wanting to emulate...and it took us a while to purge our country of the European and african practice of slavery...but we did, founding our country not on kings or emporers but on the belief that all men are created equal..

And it was the democrat party that kept alive the desire to own blacks and when they couldn't own them they tried to keep them disarmed, disenfranchised and set up jim crow.....through the law created by the government...

Another reason not to trust the government......

Every example you give is that of the government murdering it's people or enslaving them because the people are unarmed and unable to resist.

 

[2aguy]

Like Ben Franklin said, those willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.

I think we can do better than the wisdom of some 300 year old **** who shit in a chamberpot.

How about giving us a good reason why we should let Adam Lanza have a machine gun in the here and now.

He didn't have a machine gun. And he was one guy in a country of over 320 million people with over 320 million guns in private hands....where only 8,124 gun murders were committed in 2014....

8,124 gun murders....

319,991,876 million guns not used to commit murder......

Yeah....we should disarm ourselves because prosecutors and judges let gun criminals out of jail in less than 2 years......so that our future generations may become victims of European and Asian style mass murder and ethnic cleansing.....

yeah.....great idea....

 

[ChrisL]

Like Ben Franklin said, those willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.

I think we can do better than the wisdom of some 300 year old **** who shit in a chamberpot.

How about giving us a good reason why we should let Adam Lanza have a machine gun in the here and now.

He didn't have a machine gun. And he was one guy in a country of over 320 million people with over 320 million guns in private hands....where only 8,124 gun murders were committed in 2014....

8,124 gun murders....

319,991,876 million guns not used to commit murder......

Yeah....we should disarm ourselves because prosecutors and judges let gun criminals out of jail in less than 2 years......so that our future generations may become victims of European and Asian style mass murder and ethnic cleansing.....

yeah.....great idea....

Joe can't handle the truth or the facts. He wants to live in his little bubble where he thinks he would be perfectly safe if not for the big mean guns. It's a retarded position to take.

 

[2aguy]

Because they are not America and don't have a Bill of Rights for their people. Our founders wanted to protect US against government tyranny. How many times do you need to be told this? Why is that you still don't understand this basic and simple concept?

Our government has more police, more army, more weapons than any other industrialized democracy.

Our cops shoot unarmed kids in parks while Japanese Cops can go a whole career without drawing their guns.

I don't worry about "government tyranny". History has shown that the worst governments in history have been enthusiastically supported by their people. The fact a demagogue like Donald Trump can poll well shows how thin the rod of "Freedom" is.

Fact is, every time someone has taken up arms against the government, THE GOVERNMENT WON! From the Civil War to Waco. So what you are arguing for is kind of silly. YOu are arguing for suicide by cop.

I do worry about a gun industry that sells weapons to crazy people so everyone else is scared.

Japanese kids don't commit crime..the entire culture is crime free because their culture doesn't create thugs......and they also give their police, prosecutors and courts more power than our country would ever dream of doing......

You could give every Japanese citizen 2 guns and let them carry them every day and they wouldn't shoot people.

It is culture, not access to guns that is the problem.

 

[2aguy]

Because they are not America and don't have a Bill of Rights for their people. Our founders wanted to protect US against government tyranny. How many times do you need to be told this? Why is that you still don't understand this basic and simple concept?

Our government has more police, more army, more weapons than any other industrialized democracy.

Our cops shoot unarmed kids in parks while Japanese Cops can go a whole career without drawing their guns.

I don't worry about "government tyranny". History has shown that the worst governments in history have been enthusiastically supported by their people. The fact a demagogue like Donald Trump can poll well shows how thin the rod of "Freedom" is.

Fact is, every time someone has taken up arms against the government, THE GOVERNMENT WON! From the Civil War to Waco. So what you are arguing for is kind of silly. YOu are arguing for suicide by cop.

I do worry about a gun industry that sells weapons to crazy people so everyone else is scared.

Yeah...show how the gun stores knew adam lanza was a nut...considering he never bought a gun. And if he had tried to buy a gun he would have passed the background check, even a universal background check, and would have gotten his gun license and registered his gun.....and then still gone out and murdered those children.....because you guys created gun free zones where killers can go and murder without anyone to stop them.

 

[2aguy]

This is a load of bullshit, and you know it. You are just a government lackey. That much is very obvious. Guns have been a part of American culture since there was an America. The problem isn't the guns. It's that there are some people that would abuse their rights. Some people will murder other people too. That's not going to change if you take away the tool, fool.

Blantant racism has been part of America since there's been an America. that doesn't make it a good idea.

And, yes, you take away a tool, it happens a lot less often. It's why we have 16,000 Murders and Japan only has 600. (11,000 with guns vs. 11 with guns.)

Racism is part of the human condition.....the Japanese are the worst of the worst racists......it is an accepted part of their entire culture......


And we actually try to reduce it..they embrace it.

 

[onefour1]

Take away all the guns and his son is still a violent person. He could jam a roll of toilet paper down a sleeping persons throat and kill him. What then? Shall we ban all toilet paper? Guns are not the problem. Violence will continue with or without guns! Somebody doesn't want the American public to have guns. I wonder why?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Like Ben Franklin said, those willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.

I think we can do better than the wisdom of some 300 year old **** who shit in a chamberpot.

How about giving us a good reason why we should let Adam Lanza have a machine gun in the here and now.

He didn't have a machine gun. And he was one guy in a country of over 320 million people with over 320 million guns in private hands....where only 8,124 gun murders were committed in 2014....

8,124 gun murders....

319,991,876 million guns not used to commit murder......

Yeah....we should disarm ourselves because prosecutors and judges let gun criminals out of jail in less than 2 years......so that our future generations may become victims of European and Asian style mass murder and ethnic cleansing.....

yeah.....great idea....

Joe can't handle the truth or the facts. He wants to live in his little bubble where he thinks he would be perfectly safe if not for the big mean guns. It's a retarded position to take.

Yep, just like the illegal drug argument. Drugs laws work on us because we are law abiding citizens, but they don't work on drug pushers and users. Using Joe's theory, if we took recreational drugs away from law abiding citizens, then the law breakers would not have access to recreational drugs. Wait a minute! Law abiding citizens don't have any illegal drugs!!!!!!

 

[2aguy]

Because they are not America and don't have a Bill of Rights for their people. Our founders wanted to protect US against government tyranny. How many times do you need to be told this? Why is that you still don't understand this basic and simple concept?

Our government has more police, more army, more weapons than any other industrialized democracy.

Our cops shoot unarmed kids in parks while Japanese Cops can go a whole career without drawing their guns.

I don't worry about "government tyranny". History has shown that the worst governments in history have been enthusiastically supported by their people. The fact a demagogue like Donald Trump can poll well shows how thin the rod of "Freedom" is.

Fact is, every time someone has taken up arms against the government, THE GOVERNMENT WON! From the Civil War to Waco. So what you are arguing for is kind of silly. YOu are arguing for suicide by cop.

I do worry about a gun industry that sells weapons to crazy people so everyone else is scared.

amd Japn diring the war were monsters who committed mass murder on the same level as the Germans.......the were butchers.......and yet you guys look past that...amd their civilian victims were fisarmed too...notice a pattern forming around mass murder, genocide, amd ethnic cleansing...any simularities come to mind......

the one thing they all have un common...they all happen to unarmed civilians and they are murdered by governments.......

we would like to end that practice and the only way to that is to keep the people well armed.