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Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.
The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]
How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?
Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.
Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.
We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.
Regards
DL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8
Just the opposite!!! Faith opens the mind to greater possibilities. With faith comes hope and with hope comes joy. If not for my faith I'd have a very dim view of humanity and my own future. The opposite of faith is doubt. No faith = a life of pure doubt. However, I've seen the fruits of faith in my own life and in the lives of others. I've seen the Salvation Army do wonderful things for folks who were down and out and purely destitute. With doubt comes a prison of ones own making while faiths breaks the cage wide open!
IOW. You have faith because it feels good as it makes you hope your delusion is real. Delusion feels good to those who do not like to think ands who try to hide from reality.
Regards
DL
True ... faith DOES feel good; thus, the joy that comes with it. But faith is more than just a "feel good" feeling. It's a belief and an inner knowledge. I wish you could experience it. I don't know why many do and many don't. I count it as a gift.
Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.
The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]
How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?
Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.
Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.
We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.
Regards
DL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8
Just the opposite!!! Faith opens the mind to greater possibilities. With faith comes hope and with hope comes joy. If not for my faith I'd have a very dim view of humanity and my own future. The opposite of faith is doubt. No faith = a life of pure doubt. However, I've seen the fruits of faith in my own life and in the lives of others. I've seen the Salvation Army do wonderful things for folks who were down and out and purely destitute. With doubt comes a prison of ones own making while faiths breaks the cage wide open!
IOW. You have faith because it feels good as it makes you hope your delusion is real. Delusion feels good to those who do not like to think ands who try to hide from reality.
Regards
DL
True ... faith DOES feel good; thus, the joy that comes with it. But faith is more than just a "feel good" feeling. It's a belief and an inner knowledge. I wish you could experience it. I don't know why many do and many don't. I count it as a gift.
Because atheists are just too smart to be happy.
Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.
The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]
How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?
Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.
Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.
We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.
Regards
DL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8
Just the opposite!!! Faith opens the mind to greater possibilities. With faith comes hope and with hope comes joy. If not for my faith I'd have a very dim view of humanity and my own future. The opposite of faith is doubt. No faith = a life of pure doubt. However, I've seen the fruits of faith in my own life and in the lives of others. I've seen the Salvation Army do wonderful things for folks who were down and out and purely destitute. With doubt comes a prison of ones own making while faiths breaks the cage wide open!
IOW. You have faith because it feels good as it makes you hope your delusion is real. Delusion feels good to those who do not like to think ands who try to hide from reality.
Regards
DL
True ... faith DOES feel good; thus, the joy that comes with it. But faith is more than just a "feel good" feeling. It's a belief and an inner knowledge. I wish you could experience it. I don't know why many do and many don't. I count it as a gift.
Because atheists are just too smart to be happy.
Ironically, the smarter they think they are the dumber they look.
It is no more reasonable to believe a messiah want-to-be fed thousands with a few fish than it is to believe Theseus slew the Minotaur.
The story of the multiplication of the loaves is not a story about Jesus feeding thousands of people fish sandwiches out of thin air,
It is a story about how Jesus taught a large crowd of people who hungered for truth with only seven disciples represented by five loaves and two fish, a well known symbol for a follower of Christ, while ending up with twelve disciples symbolized by the twelve baskets full of 'uneaten pieces' which represent the aspects of what Jesus taught, bread from heaven, that the rest of the crowd could not swallow....
The miracle, or sign actually, is that such a large and skeptical crowd already seasoned by countless want-to-be messiahs was satisfied with most of his teaching spread by the 7 disciples, "feed them yourselves" and then ending up with twelve disciples who accepted it all.
Is that unreasonable to believe?
"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again." Matthew 13:44
Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.
The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]
How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?
Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.
Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.
We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.
Regards
DL
“My belief in miracles cannot be considered a mystical belief: it is founded on human evidence, as is my belief in the discovery of America. It is, indeed, a simple logical fact that hardly needs to be recognized or interpreted. The extraordinary idea going around is that those who deny the miracle know how to consider the facts coolly and directly, while those who accept the miracle always relate the facts with the dogma previously accepted. In fact, the opposite is the case: the believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so. The unbelievers deny it (with or without reason) because the doctrine they profess compels them to do so.”
– G.K. Chesterton from “Orthodoxy” (1908 a.d.)
"founded on human evidence,"
Could you give us some of this evidence and we can reason it out?
Regards
DL
"Like we did a thousand times before." ( to steal a Doors lyric)
A convent in Akita, Japan (1973) is good enough for me. A three foot wooden statue of the Virgin Mary weeps human tears or tears of blood before witnesses on 101 occasions. Also once shown on Japanese national TV. Even if the nuns were hyper-clever tricksters, I still don't see the advantage for them pulling off the ruse 101 times?
OUR LADY OF AKITA
Like Chesterton stated: "...he believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so. The unbelievers deny it (with or without reason) because the doctrine they profess compels them to do so.”
Any evidence of a miracle would be obvious to all.
Regards
DL
Says who? God, or your rules of convenience?
Most faith-based people really don't want to share conversation with atheists in the first place. The real problem is that all atheists consider themselves to be so super-intelligent that they cannot engage in conversation within their own little niche without it ending in a fight over just who is the most intelligent and important. Atheist are all infected with illusion of grandeur and superiority complex. The reason atheists don't believe in God is because they consider themselves to be god. They have determined that they are far more intelligent than the Nazarene carpenter of long ago.
That likely happens when a Christian tells an atheist to turn or burn and start to believe on faith alone. I usually walk away when that superiority complex pops up. Only an overinflated ego will think it has access to a God of the whole universe.
Do you expect atheists to believe in a water walking God when they know about gravity?
How do you explain that?
Let us reason. Would a carpenter and fishermen be good candidates to start a new religion? They could not even read or write. How could they learn of their God?
Regards
DL
Actually, you will find on this forum whenever a Christian makes a statement of any kind, five atheists will start calling him stupid and ignorant and some even begin using profanities. All of them will right away tell each other how intelligent they are. Just as you did putting down a carpenter and a fisherman. I have met some of both who are very intelligent. I know a couple of home builders who are very intelligent and have made tons of money.
No, you are too intelligent to believe the God who created both the water and the law of gravity and who resides outside our dimensional constraints could walk on water let alone appear in a locked room with the doors and windows locked. I realize you are simply too intelligent to know anything about hyper-space travel.
It seems to me the existence of Christians bothers atheists a whole lot more than the existence of atheists bothers Christians.
But I also know some atheists that think militant atheism is just silly.
Indeed. I surmise that the idea of God, Christ, the Bible, etc., is settled in the Christian mind but continues to plague and disturb the atheist mind since atheists appear to be the ones to dwell on the subject so much.
I am not an atheist but see them following this quote much more often than Christians.
Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Regards
DL
“My belief in miracles cannot be considered a mystical belief: it is founded on human evidence, as is my belief in the discovery of America. It is, indeed, a simple logical fact that hardly needs to be recognized or interpreted. The extraordinary idea going around is that those who deny the miracle know how to consider the facts coolly and directly, while those who accept the miracle always relate the facts with the dogma previously accepted. In fact, the opposite is the case: the believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so. The unbelievers deny it (with or without reason) because the doctrine they profess compels them to do so.”
– G.K. Chesterton from “Orthodoxy” (1908 a.d.)
"founded on human evidence,"
Could you give us some of this evidence and we can reason it out?
Regards
DL
"Like we did a thousand times before." ( to steal a Doors lyric)
A convent in Akita, Japan (1973) is good enough for me. A three foot wooden statue of the Virgin Mary weeps human tears or tears of blood before witnesses on 101 occasions. Also once shown on Japanese national TV. Even if the nuns were hyper-clever tricksters, I still don't see the advantage for them pulling off the ruse 101 times?
OUR LADY OF AKITA
Like Chesterton stated: "...he believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so. The unbelievers deny it (with or without reason) because the doctrine they profess compels them to do so.”
Any evidence of a miracle would be obvious to all.
Regards
DL
Says who? God, or your rules of convenience?
Says common sense. Something you do not seem to have.
Regards
DL
"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again." Matthew 13:44
How do we determine which biblical stories are factual and which are allegory?
That likely happens when a Christian tells an atheist to turn or burn and start to believe on faith alone. I usually walk away when that superiority complex pops up. Only an overinflated ego will think it has access to a God of the whole universe.
Do you expect atheists to believe in a water walking God when they know about gravity?
How do you explain that?
Let us reason. Would a carpenter and fishermen be good candidates to start a new religion? They could not even read or write. How could they learn of their God?
Regards
DL
Actually, you will find on this forum whenever a Christian makes a statement of any kind, five atheists will start calling him stupid and ignorant and some even begin using profanities. All of them will right away tell each other how intelligent they are. Just as you did putting down a carpenter and a fisherman. I have met some of both who are very intelligent. I know a couple of home builders who are very intelligent and have made tons of money.
No, you are too intelligent to believe the God who created both the water and the law of gravity and who resides outside our dimensional constraints could walk on water let alone appear in a locked room with the doors and windows locked. I realize you are simply too intelligent to know anything about hyper-space travel.
It seems to me the existence of Christians bothers atheists a whole lot more than the existence of atheists bothers Christians.
But I also know some atheists that think militant atheism is just silly.
Indeed. I surmise that the idea of God, Christ, the Bible, etc., is settled in the Christian mind but continues to plague and disturb the atheist mind since atheists appear to be the ones to dwell on the subject so much.
I am not an atheist but see them following this quote much more often than Christians.
Proverbs 3:12
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Regards
DL
Yes they do take up a lot of God's time.
GIA, Faith is hope. It expands the mind to include that which is not yet seen. It is the quantum physics of the religious realm. It is the opposite of closed minded and has nothing to do with idols or worship.
Faith is not hope. Hope is hope. Go argue with Webster if you want to re-write the English language.
Regards
DL
"
faith
noun \ˈfāth\
: strong belief or trust in someone or something
: belief in the existence of God : strong religious feelings or beliefs
: a system of religious beliefs"
"
hope
verb \ˈhōp\
: to want something to happen or be true and think that it could happen or be true"
Yeah, they're pretty much the same.
I suppose faith is one step beyond hope, it's the understanding that what you hoped for is real and true.
But overall, I think you think you're a lot smarter than you actually are. I wouldn't kibbitz over these two words if I were you. It makes you look, I dunno...stupid.
Hope - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Thanks for the agreement followed by insult. Christian.
Regards
DL
GIA, I can't seem to find your Muslim human sacrifice/murder atrocity thread. One religion says, "Thou shall not kill." and the other says, "Kill yourself and take as many innocent people with you when you die." Do you think Muslim faith kills?
"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again." Matthew 13:44
How do we determine which biblical stories are factual and which are allegory?
Excellent question.
The best way to determine what is factual and what is allegory is to have a sober knowledge of the sciences, beliefs, expressions and literary techniques traditionally employed by the authors whoever they were through study to be capable of discerning what is possible from impossible, reality from fantasy, or the eyewitness account of a dream from a historical record. Reality always constrains the only possible true interpretation of any given story to one..
When there are two or more possible interpretations of any given story that conforms to and can be confirmed by reality, in the waters of contention the truth is brought out..
funny.. I've found it to be the exact opposite. I find that faith expands and enlightens the mind and mote importantly it increases and opens the heart.
it's the misapplication of reason that get people to refuse to consider things outside ones immediate sense. They say I will not consider this or that unless I see evidence. Then they raise the bar of what they consider evidence so high that nothing will satisfy it. Instead of using reason to learn they use it as an excuse to not learn. Faith can likewise be misused.
faith allows people to expand their minds and consider things not immediately apparent. It allows people to learn where reason alone cannot.
I say reason alone but it's more misunderstanding of reason. People dont recognize the limitations of reason. Reason is only good if you have accurate data you are putting in.
those who misuse reason are likely to misunderstand faith as well. They are also likely to miss the opportunity of the heart
So faith then is only good when a person has inaccurate data.
And what kind of heart opening does that give you?
A nice self-induced self-gratifying feeling based on nothing accurate.
Mental masturbation.
Regards
DL
One came from beyond to prove it.For these researchers, the answers to complex problems in the 3-D world may be found in the next dimension - and beyond.
Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.
The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]
How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?
Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.
Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.
We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.
Regards
DL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8
Just the opposite!!! Faith opens the mind to greater possibilities. With faith comes hope and with hope comes joy. If not for my faith I'd have a very dim view of humanity and my own future. The opposite of faith is doubt. No faith = a life of pure doubt. However, I've seen the fruits of faith in my own life and in the lives of others. I've seen the Salvation Army do wonderful things for folks who were down and out and purely destitute. With doubt comes a prison of ones own making while faiths breaks the cage wide open!
IOW. You have faith because it feels good as it makes you hope your delusion is real. Delusion feels good to those who do not like to think ands who try to hide from reality.
Regards
DL
True ... faith DOES feel good; thus, the joy that comes with it. But faith is more than just a "feel good" feeling. It's a belief and an inner knowledge. I wish you could experience it. I don't know why many do and many don't. I count it as a gift.
Okay, but can we take the Bible stories on face value at all? Even if we just say some stories are exaggeration (Samson killing 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass for example) or allegory (Jesus feeding people fish and bread) or propaganda (connecting Jesus to David) or something was lost in translation or a literary fabrication or some other method, how can we know anything in the Bible is real? If Jesus walking on water really was just a parable invented in Turkey a century after the alleged fact to teach about faith, then what other idea in the Bible that we take for the "truth" aren't? Is there anything to the book beyond an entrenched mythology backed up by institutional cultural practices?
Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.
The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]
How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?
Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did. “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.
Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.
We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.
Regards
DL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8
Just the opposite!!! Faith opens the mind to greater possibilities. With faith comes hope and with hope comes joy. If not for my faith I'd have a very dim view of humanity and my own future. The opposite of faith is doubt. No faith = a life of pure doubt. However, I've seen the fruits of faith in my own life and in the lives of others. I've seen the Salvation Army do wonderful things for folks who were down and out and purely destitute. With doubt comes a prison of ones own making while faiths breaks the cage wide open!
IOW. You have faith because it feels good as it makes you hope your delusion is real. Delusion feels good to those who do not like to think ands who try to hide from reality.
Regards
DL
True ... faith DOES feel good; thus, the joy that comes with it. But faith is more than just a "feel good" feeling. It's a belief and an inner knowledge. I wish you could experience it. I don't know why many do and many don't. I count it as a gift.
Delusion is not a gift.
You speak of apotheosis and I claim that as well.
Why did mine send me to a moral religion and why did yours send you to one based on immoral barbaric human sacrifice that is somehow a good form of justice?
Regards
DL
Regards
DL
GIA, I can't seem to find your Muslim human sacrifice/murder atrocity thread. One religion says, "Thou shall not kill." and the other says, "Kill yourself and take as many innocent people with you when you die." Do you think Muslim faith kills?
Has Islam caught up to the number of dead that Christianity left behind?
Regards
DL
