Factors that have made this country so darn divided

[Redfish]

you are seriously confused.

Well, Mr. Tuna.....you're just underscoring just how pissed off you're going to be tomorrow.

yes, gnat. if my country puts the corrupt lying cheating Hillary Clinton in the white house I will be very pissed off and disappointed. Our country will have chosen dictatorial socialism over constitutional freedom and that will spell the beginning of the end of this great nation. Yes, I will be pissed, sad, disappointed, but I will go on and make the best of a bad situation. I have made my money in a free economy, my concern is for my kids and grandkids who will have to live in the mess that Hillary Clinton will create.

But with her serious physical and mental health issues, you are actually putting Tim Kaine in the white house, does that make you sleep well?

But with her serious physical and mental health issues, you are actually putting Tim Kaine in the white house, does that make you sleep well?

Putting aside the validity of your statement for a moment, do you not see the folly in putting Mike Pence in office.

not at all, Pence would be a very good president if something happened to Trump. Neither Clinton or Kaine would be a good president IMHO.

You are not one of those people that rails against the establishment and defends Trump on those grounds I guess.

Trump is a better alternative than Clinton------its that simple, not complicated at all.

 

[rightwinger]

This country is divided because the left is following the instructions of their idols and leaders, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Alinsky, Lenin, Marx, and most recently Clinton and our corrupt media.

Divide the country by race, religion, ethnicity, income (especially income), geography, age, sex, sexual preference. Divide and conquer is not a new concept.

The founders understood it and wrote our constitution to give each citizen an equal vote. It worked for over 200 years. Now, we have let the far left zealots who hate the constitution take power and rule this country. If Hillary Clinton becomes president, the USA as a free democratic representative republic is over. The rule of law will be ignored and she will rule by personal vendetta and continue to eliminate anyone who dares challenge her absolute power.

We are at a tipping point. We will know today if the country will survive.

A fine example of why the rhetoric on the right has become so bizarre

It is no longer good enough to say you disagree with a political position. The rightwing crazies (deplorables) demand that the opposition be treated as truly evil, un-American, commies.......how can you ever compromise with someone who you consider evil?

the corrupt left led by the corrupt Hillary and her compliant corrupt media are truly evil.

Putting someone in the white house who has violated national security laws, used a foundation to launder money into her personal account, who has enabled the perversions of her husband, and who has found ways to eliminate (murder/suicide) her enemies is the personification of evil.

No, we should not compromise with those who seek to destroy this nation and all it stands for.

Thank you for once again demonstrating the extreme binary nature of todays Republicans, There is no gray...only black and white
No middle ground....only a demand for complete victory or nothing (why Republicans end up with nothing)

The language from the rightwing deplorables revolves around simplistic, grade school pronouncements.....They lie, they are corrupt, they are evil, they will destroy this nation

A fine example of why we got Trump

We got Trump because a very large sector of America (half or more) are fed up with the lying corrupt establishment in both parties. We are tired of being lied to by both parties, we are tired of corruption and incompetence in DC. We are fed up with politicians whose only goal is increasing their personal wealth at our expense. We are fed up with a government that is 20 trillion in debt.

Half of America sees Trump as a way to end that corruption and incompetence.

by late tonight we will know if the country is crashing into failed European socialism or returning to constitutional freedom.

The country deserves what it votes for.

Trumps numbers are in the low 40s

Of that number, only about a half are actually supporting the values demonstrated by Trump. That 20% constitutes the deplorables......racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, gun nuts, uneducated

The remaining 20% are lifelong Republicans who despise Trump but refuse to vote Democratic....maybe he won't be so bad

 

[Redfish]

This country is divided because the left is following the instructions of their idols and leaders, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Alinsky, Lenin, Marx, and most recently Clinton and our corrupt media.

Divide the country by race, religion, ethnicity, income (especially income), geography, age, sex, sexual preference. Divide and conquer is not a new concept.

The founders understood it and wrote our constitution to give each citizen an equal vote. It worked for over 200 years. Now, we have let the far left zealots who hate the constitution take power and rule this country. If Hillary Clinton becomes president, the USA as a free democratic representative republic is over. The rule of law will be ignored and she will rule by personal vendetta and continue to eliminate anyone who dares challenge her absolute power.

We are at a tipping point. We will know today if the country will survive.

A fine example of why the rhetoric on the right has become so bizarre

It is no longer good enough to say you disagree with a political position. The rightwing crazies (deplorables) demand that the opposition be treated as truly evil, un-American, commies.......how can you ever compromise with someone who you consider evil?

the corrupt left led by the corrupt Hillary and her compliant corrupt media are truly evil.

Putting someone in the white house who has violated national security laws, used a foundation to launder money into her personal account, who has enabled the perversions of her husband, and who has found ways to eliminate (murder/suicide) her enemies is the personification of evil.

No, we should not compromise with those who seek to destroy this nation and all it stands for.

Thank you for once again demonstrating the extreme binary nature of todays Republicans, There is no gray...only black and white
No middle ground....only a demand for complete victory or nothing (why Republicans end up with nothing)

The language from the rightwing deplorables revolves around simplistic, grade school pronouncements.....They lie, they are corrupt, they are evil, they will destroy this nation

A fine example of why we got Trump

We got Trump because a very large sector of America (half or more) are fed up with the lying corrupt establishment in both parties. We are tired of being lied to by both parties, we are tired of corruption and incompetence in DC. We are fed up with politicians whose only goal is increasing their personal wealth at our expense. We are fed up with a government that is 20 trillion in debt.

Half of America sees Trump as a way to end that corruption and incompetence.

by late tonight we will know if the country is crashing into failed European socialism or returning to constitutional freedom.

The country deserves what it votes for.

Trumps numbers are in the low 40s

Of that number, only about a half are actually supporting the values demonstrated by Trump. That 20% constitutes the deplorables......racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, gun nuts, uneducated

The remaining 20% are lifelong Republicans who despise Trump but refuse to vote Democratic....maybe he won't be so bad

We shall see. As I said, the country deserves what it votes for.

 

[oreo]

I have been a life-long Republican, and if someone told me even years ago, that there was this much ignorance, anger, hate, fear, bigotry, misogyny and extremism within the party, I would have never believed it. I have seen it with my own eyes know, and have switched my party status to Independent and voted for Hillary Clinton to insure that the most incompetent, unqualified, DANGEROUS, immature, emotionally unstable candidate, Donald Trump, never gets within a 500 mile radius of the Oval office.

But to add to your comment--you forgot to mention FOX NEWS and every single Reich wing talk shows place in this. Who have fed their audiences 3 or more daily hours of Reich wing hyperbole, half truths and enough conspiracy theories to fill the capital building from floor to ceiling. They are mostly responsible for this hate, and they are also responsible for shattering the Republican party into pieces.

you are seriously confused.

Well, Mr. Tuna.....you're just underscoring just how pissed off you're going to be tomorrow.

yes, gnat. if my country puts the corrupt lying cheating Hillary Clinton in the white house I will be very pissed off and disappointed. Our country will have chosen dictatorial socialism over constitutional freedom and that will spell the beginning of the end of this great nation. Yes, I will be pissed, sad, disappointed, but I will go on and make the best of a bad situation. I have made my money in a free economy, my concern is for my kids and grandkids who will have to live in the mess that Hillary Clinton will create.

But with her serious physical and mental health issues, you are actually putting Tim Kaine in the white house, does that make you sleep well?

But with her serious physical and mental health issues, you are actually putting Tim Kaine in the white house, does that make you sleep well?

Putting aside the validity of your statement for a moment, do you not see the folly in putting Mike Pence in office.

not at all, Pence would be a very good president if something happened to Trump. Neither Clinton or Kaine would be a good president IMHO.

The reason Mike Pense jumped on the Trump ticket--is because he was going to lose his Governor's seat. It is incumbent for a Governor to NOT sign bills into law, that are certain to be challenged & over-ruled in Federal District court one year later. They must be good steward's of taxpayer dollars and Mike Pense let his religion get in front of his duties, & he was about to pay a very heavy price for that.
Pence signs new abortion restrictions into law with a prayer

 

[Redfish]

you are seriously confused.

Well, Mr. Tuna.....you're just underscoring just how pissed off you're going to be tomorrow.

yes, gnat. if my country puts the corrupt lying cheating Hillary Clinton in the white house I will be very pissed off and disappointed. Our country will have chosen dictatorial socialism over constitutional freedom and that will spell the beginning of the end of this great nation. Yes, I will be pissed, sad, disappointed, but I will go on and make the best of a bad situation. I have made my money in a free economy, my concern is for my kids and grandkids who will have to live in the mess that Hillary Clinton will create.

But with her serious physical and mental health issues, you are actually putting Tim Kaine in the white house, does that make you sleep well?

But with her serious physical and mental health issues, you are actually putting Tim Kaine in the white house, does that make you sleep well?

Putting aside the validity of your statement for a moment, do you not see the folly in putting Mike Pence in office.

not at all, Pence would be a very good president if something happened to Trump. Neither Clinton or Kaine would be a good president IMHO.

The reason Mike Pense jumped on the Trump ticket--is because he was going to lose his Governor's seat. It is incumbent for a Governor to NOT sign bills into law, that are certain to be challenged & over-ruled in Federal District court one year later. They must be good steward's of taxpayer dollars and Mike Pense let his religion get in front of his duties, & he was about to pay a very heavy price for that.
Pence signs new abortion restrictions into law with a prayer

that's your opinion and you have a right to state it. But wait, if Hillary takes office, our opinions will be dictated to us. Orwell and Rand were right, they saw this coming but we were too ignorant and arrogant to understand.

 

[oreo]

This country is divided because the left is following the instructions of their idols and leaders, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Alinsky, Lenin, Marx, and most recently Clinton and our corrupt media.

Divide the country by race, religion, ethnicity, income (especially income), geography, age, sex, sexual preference. Divide and conquer is not a new concept.

The founders understood it and wrote our constitution to give each citizen an equal vote. It worked for over 200 years. Now, we have let the far left zealots who hate the constitution take power and rule this country. If Hillary Clinton becomes president, the USA as a free democratic representative republic is over. The rule of law will be ignored and she will rule by personal vendetta and continue to eliminate anyone who dares challenge her absolute power.

We are at a tipping point. We will know today if the country will survive.

A fine example of why the rhetoric on the right has become so bizarre

It is no longer good enough to say you disagree with a political position. The rightwing crazies (deplorables) demand that the opposition be treated as truly evil, un-American, commies.......how can you ever compromise with someone who you consider evil?

the corrupt left led by the corrupt Hillary and her compliant corrupt media are truly evil.

Putting someone in the white house who has violated national security laws, used a foundation to launder money into her personal account, who has enabled the perversions of her husband, and who has found ways to eliminate (murder/suicide) her enemies is the personification of evil.

No, we should not compromise with those who seek to destroy this nation and all it stands for.

Thank you for once again demonstrating the extreme binary nature of todays Republicans, There is no gray...only black and white
No middle ground....only a demand for complete victory or nothing (why Republicans end up with nothing)

The language from the rightwing deplorables revolves around simplistic, grade school pronouncements.....They lie, they are corrupt, they are evil, they will destroy this nation

A fine example of why we got Trump

We got Trump because a very large sector of America (half or more) are fed up with the lying corrupt establishment in both parties. We are tired of being lied to by both parties, we are tired of corruption and incompetence in DC. We are fed up with politicians whose only goal is increasing their personal wealth at our expense. We are fed up with a government that is 20 trillion in debt.

Half of America sees Trump as a way to end that corruption and incompetence.

by late tonight we will know if the country is crashing into failed European socialism or returning to constitutional freedom.

The country deserves what it votes for.

Trumps numbers are in the low 40s

Of that number, only about a half are actually supporting the values demonstrated by Trump. That 20% constitutes the deplorables......racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, gun nuts, uneducated

The remaining 20% are lifelong Republicans who despise Trump but refuse to vote Democratic....maybe he won't be so bad

It would surprise me to see that Trump gets 50% of the Republican vote. I am basing this on what is going on in Colorado Springs, the red'est of the red. Keep in mind that 54% of the Republican party voted for other GOP candidates during the primary.
In the reddest part of Colorado, some Republicans rethink their loyalty

And also knowing that half of Republican women had no intentions of voting for Trump--(prior to the audio tape coming out.)
Poll: Nearly half of Republican women wouldn't vote for Trump

Then you had Latino Republicans long ago state that they would not support a Trump nominee.
Latino conservatives: If Donald Trump is the nominee, we will not work to elect him

 

[Redfish]

A fine example of why the rhetoric on the right has become so bizarre

It is no longer good enough to say you disagree with a political position. The rightwing crazies (deplorables) demand that the opposition be treated as truly evil, un-American, commies.......how can you ever compromise with someone who you consider evil?

the corrupt left led by the corrupt Hillary and her compliant corrupt media are truly evil.

Putting someone in the white house who has violated national security laws, used a foundation to launder money into her personal account, who has enabled the perversions of her husband, and who has found ways to eliminate (murder/suicide) her enemies is the personification of evil.

No, we should not compromise with those who seek to destroy this nation and all it stands for.

Thank you for once again demonstrating the extreme binary nature of todays Republicans, There is no gray...only black and white
No middle ground....only a demand for complete victory or nothing (why Republicans end up with nothing)

The language from the rightwing deplorables revolves around simplistic, grade school pronouncements.....They lie, they are corrupt, they are evil, they will destroy this nation

A fine example of why we got Trump

We got Trump because a very large sector of America (half or more) are fed up with the lying corrupt establishment in both parties. We are tired of being lied to by both parties, we are tired of corruption and incompetence in DC. We are fed up with politicians whose only goal is increasing their personal wealth at our expense. We are fed up with a government that is 20 trillion in debt.

Half of America sees Trump as a way to end that corruption and incompetence.

by late tonight we will know if the country is crashing into failed European socialism or returning to constitutional freedom.

The country deserves what it votes for.

Trumps numbers are in the low 40s

Of that number, only about a half are actually supporting the values demonstrated by Trump. That 20% constitutes the deplorables......racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, gun nuts, uneducated

The remaining 20% are lifelong Republicans who despise Trump but refuse to vote Democratic....maybe he won't be so bad

It would surprise me to see that Trump gets 50% of the Republican vote. I am basing this on what is going on in Colorado Springs, the red'est of the red.
In the reddest part of Colorado, some Republicans rethink their loyalty

And also knowing that half of Republican women had no intentions of voting for Trump--(prior to the audio tape coming out.)
Poll: Nearly half of Republican women wouldn't vote for Trump

Then you had Latino Republicans long ago state that they would not support a Trump nominee.
Latino conservatives: If Donald Trump is the nominee, we will not work to elect him

Trump has gotten 25,000 to most of his rallys, half of them were women. Cubans in Florida are solidly behind Trump.

you are in a fantasy world of liberal propaganda.

 

[oreo]

A fine example of why the rhetoric on the right has become so bizarre

It is no longer good enough to say you disagree with a political position. The rightwing crazies (deplorables) demand that the opposition be treated as truly evil, un-American, commies.......how can you ever compromise with someone who you consider evil?

the corrupt left led by the corrupt Hillary and her compliant corrupt media are truly evil.

Putting someone in the white house who has violated national security laws, used a foundation to launder money into her personal account, who has enabled the perversions of her husband, and who has found ways to eliminate (murder/suicide) her enemies is the personification of evil.

No, we should not compromise with those who seek to destroy this nation and all it stands for.

Thank you for once again demonstrating the extreme binary nature of todays Republicans, There is no gray...only black and white
No middle ground....only a demand for complete victory or nothing (why Republicans end up with nothing)

The language from the rightwing deplorables revolves around simplistic, grade school pronouncements.....They lie, they are corrupt, they are evil, they will destroy this nation

A fine example of why we got Trump

We got Trump because a very large sector of America (half or more) are fed up with the lying corrupt establishment in both parties. We are tired of being lied to by both parties, we are tired of corruption and incompetence in DC. We are fed up with politicians whose only goal is increasing their personal wealth at our expense. We are fed up with a government that is 20 trillion in debt.

Half of America sees Trump as a way to end that corruption and incompetence.

by late tonight we will know if the country is crashing into failed European socialism or returning to constitutional freedom.

The country deserves what it votes for.

Trumps numbers are in the low 40s

Of that number, only about a half are actually supporting the values demonstrated by Trump. That 20% constitutes the deplorables......racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, gun nuts, uneducated

The remaining 20% are lifelong Republicans who despise Trump but refuse to vote Democratic....maybe he won't be so bad

We shall see. As I said, the country deserves what it votes for.

You're right--specifically Republicans deserve everything that comes their way tonight. They were warned over and over again about Trump. I imagine that Republicans will lose the Senate, many seats in the house and down ballot races all across this country.
#NeverTrump: We Told You He Would Kill Us, but You Didn’t Listen

 

[nat4900]

But with her serious physical and mental health issues, you are actually putting Tim Kaine in the white house, does that make you sleep well?

Oh, no, that trite Clinton is on her death bed mantra.......You should know, that obese trump would have been the OLDEST president ever......

 

[nat4900]

Trump is a better alternative than Clinton------its that simple, not complicated at all.

Well, Mr. Tuna....don't forget to show up to vote on Wednesday.....LOL

 

[oreo]

the corrupt left led by the corrupt Hillary and her compliant corrupt media are truly evil.

Putting someone in the white house who has violated national security laws, used a foundation to launder money into her personal account, who has enabled the perversions of her husband, and who has found ways to eliminate (murder/suicide) her enemies is the personification of evil.

No, we should not compromise with those who seek to destroy this nation and all it stands for.

Thank you for once again demonstrating the extreme binary nature of todays Republicans, There is no gray...only black and white
No middle ground....only a demand for complete victory or nothing (why Republicans end up with nothing)

The language from the rightwing deplorables revolves around simplistic, grade school pronouncements.....They lie, they are corrupt, they are evil, they will destroy this nation

A fine example of why we got Trump

We got Trump because a very large sector of America (half or more) are fed up with the lying corrupt establishment in both parties. We are tired of being lied to by both parties, we are tired of corruption and incompetence in DC. We are fed up with politicians whose only goal is increasing their personal wealth at our expense. We are fed up with a government that is 20 trillion in debt.

Half of America sees Trump as a way to end that corruption and incompetence.

by late tonight we will know if the country is crashing into failed European socialism or returning to constitutional freedom.

The country deserves what it votes for.

Trumps numbers are in the low 40s

Of that number, only about a half are actually supporting the values demonstrated by Trump. That 20% constitutes the deplorables......racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, gun nuts, uneducated

The remaining 20% are lifelong Republicans who despise Trump but refuse to vote Democratic....maybe he won't be so bad

It would surprise me to see that Trump gets 50% of the Republican vote. I am basing this on what is going on in Colorado Springs, the red'est of the red.
In the reddest part of Colorado, some Republicans rethink their loyalty

And also knowing that half of Republican women had no intentions of voting for Trump--(prior to the audio tape coming out.)
Poll: Nearly half of Republican women wouldn't vote for Trump

Then you had Latino Republicans long ago state that they would not support a Trump nominee.
Latino conservatives: If Donald Trump is the nominee, we will not work to elect him

Trump has gotten 25,000 to most of his rallys, half of them were women. Cubans in Florida are solidly behind Trump.

you are in a fantasy world of liberal propaganda.

The GOP nominee has always been required to win at least 40% of Latino block to win the White House. Trump is off the charts in the negative.
GOP Win Will Need More Than 40 Percent Of Latino 2016 Vote, Says Study

In Florida alone--new Latino registrations have increased by 130%. Meaning their coming out of the wood work to vote for Hillary Clinton.
Bad news for Trump in new Latino polling

And what you Trump supporters always failed to realize. That in the entire southwest of this country, including my state of Colorado. Republicans depend on Latino support to win elections. Without them they lose. In fact, Texas has a 40% Hispanic legal voting population in that state, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Texas go blue, along with Arizona & Nevada. These states are heavily populated with Latino's

This is why the next Republican President is not even born yet.

 

[hazlnut]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

 

[Rustic]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

No, career politicians and their federal government are 100% the reason for the national debt. Fact
In the relationship between the career politician and the union is incestuous at best.

 

[Redfish]

the corrupt left led by the corrupt Hillary and her compliant corrupt media are truly evil.

Putting someone in the white house who has violated national security laws, used a foundation to launder money into her personal account, who has enabled the perversions of her husband, and who has found ways to eliminate (murder/suicide) her enemies is the personification of evil.

No, we should not compromise with those who seek to destroy this nation and all it stands for.

Thank you for once again demonstrating the extreme binary nature of todays Republicans, There is no gray...only black and white
No middle ground....only a demand for complete victory or nothing (why Republicans end up with nothing)

The language from the rightwing deplorables revolves around simplistic, grade school pronouncements.....They lie, they are corrupt, they are evil, they will destroy this nation

A fine example of why we got Trump

We got Trump because a very large sector of America (half or more) are fed up with the lying corrupt establishment in both parties. We are tired of being lied to by both parties, we are tired of corruption and incompetence in DC. We are fed up with politicians whose only goal is increasing their personal wealth at our expense. We are fed up with a government that is 20 trillion in debt.

Half of America sees Trump as a way to end that corruption and incompetence.

by late tonight we will know if the country is crashing into failed European socialism or returning to constitutional freedom.

The country deserves what it votes for.

Trumps numbers are in the low 40s

Of that number, only about a half are actually supporting the values demonstrated by Trump. That 20% constitutes the deplorables......racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, gun nuts, uneducated

The remaining 20% are lifelong Republicans who despise Trump but refuse to vote Democratic....maybe he won't be so bad

We shall see. As I said, the country deserves what it votes for.

You're right--specifically Republicans deserve everything that comes their way tonight. They were warned over and over again about Trump. I imagine that Republicans will lose the Senate, many seats in the house and down ballot races all across this country.
#NeverTrump: We Told You He Would Kill Us, but You Didn’t Listen

the same applies to the ignorant dems who chose the most corrupt person ever to run for any political office, a person who has violated national security laws, enabled the perversions of her husband, attacked his victims, wants to kill unborn human beings up to the moment of birth, and presided over an illegal money laundering foundation funded by the enemies of America.

Hillary Clinton is the worst possible person to put in the white house. If the country does that, it deserves what comes next------------a constitutional crisis as more of her crimes are uncovered.

 

[rightwinger]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

No, career politicians and their federal government are 100% the reason for the national debt. Fact
In the relationship between the career politician and the union is incestuous at best.

Selfish and lazy voters are the reason we have so much debt

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

 

[Rustic]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

No, career politicians and their federal government are 100% the reason for the national debt. Fact
In the relationship between the career politician and the union is incestuous at best.

Selfish and lazy voters are the reason we have so much debt

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

Lol
Taxes have never made any country great...
Such things are 100% abused

 

[rightwinger]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

No, career politicians and their federal government are 100% the reason for the national debt. Fact
In the relationship between the career politician and the union is incestuous at best.

Selfish and lazy voters are the reason we have so much debt

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

Lol
Taxes have never made any country great...
Such things are 100% abused

Of course taxes made our country great....what do you think paid for it?

Roads, bridges, harbors, airports, medical research, our military, our schools, security, safe food and water, environmental protection.........

 

[Rustic]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

No, career politicians and their federal government are 100% the reason for the national debt. Fact
In the relationship between the career politician and the union is incestuous at best.

Selfish and lazy voters are the reason we have so much debt

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

Lol
Taxes have never made any country great...
Such things are 100% abused

Of course taxes made our country great....what do you think paid for it?

Roads, bridges, harbors, airports, medical research, our military, our schools, security, safe food and water, environmental protection.........

Lol

 

[nat4900]

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

.......AND fighting useless, deadly and costly wars....just ask Cheney.

 

[rightwinger]

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

.......AND fighting useless, deadly and costly wars....just ask Cheney.

Who else would start two wars and cut taxes to pay for them?