Fact about d day.....thousands of Americans died because

[Flash]

this was the most pathetically planned military operation in history.

Pathetic comment of the day so far. A day when we celebrate those young men's heroism, not second guess why things went wrong, from 75 years on.

No one cleared the beach, The defenses were well understood, this was a fuckup that killed thousands of boys not even men yet. You expect the government to admit their idiocy. 7000 planes did not clear the beach

They cleared four of the five beaches with air power. Relatively easy landings on those three beaches. The one they didn't clear (Omaha) had more cloud cover than the others.

Fog of war. Nothing ever goes according to plan. Weather has fucked up more military operations than we can ever imagine.

However, to keep thing in perspective. The four beaches where the sky was mostly clear and the air bombing successful were breached within an hour or so. Obama beach, where the bombers were not effective because of the cloud cover, took three to four hours. God bless the ground troops that had to do what air support couldn't do.

Pretty damn impressive, I think.

We won! Germany got their ass kicked that day. No Monday morning arm chair quarterbacking needed.

 

[BlindBoo]

You expect the government to admit their idiocy.

Do you think they didn't investigate why the bombs missed, or the navy bombardment was ineffective, or that that information was not released? To me, it only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

They investigated JFK too. Why would they say we screwed up and killed how many thousand boys....BOYS NOT MEN

The planes had no chance because of cloud cover, so why were they in the air wasting fuel

I guess they just couldn't see all those clouds from England the night before so they went with what they had. Two and a half months later they were liberating Paris and pushing the Fascist Bastards back towards Motherlandia!

All the adversities you're whining about, only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

 

[Camp]

You expect the government to admit their idiocy.

Do you think they didn't investigate why the bombs missed, or the navy bombardment was ineffective, or that that information was not released? To me, it only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

They investigated JFK too. Why would they say we screwed up and killed how many thousand boys....BOYS NOT MEN

The planes had no chance because of cloud cover, so why were they in the air wasting fuel

I guess they just couldn't see all those clouds from England the night before so they went with what they had. Two and a half months later they were liberating Paris and pushing the Fascist Bastards back towards Motherlandia!

All the adversities you're whining about, only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

Figures on this day someone would go negative and blame the planers and pilots as incompetent. Make no mistake, Franny, the OP, is claiming the pilots who flew on D-Day were incompetent and even some were cowards.

 

[Pilot1]

You expect the government to admit their idiocy.

Do you think they didn't investigate why the bombs missed, or the navy bombardment was ineffective, or that that information was not released? To me, it only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

They investigated JFK too. Why would they say we screwed up and killed how many thousand boys....BOYS NOT MEN

The planes had no chance because of cloud cover, so why were they in the air wasting fuel

I guess they just couldn't see all those clouds from England the night before so they went with what they had. Two and a half months later they were liberating Paris and pushing the Fascist Bastards back towards Motherlandia!

All the adversities you're whining about, only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

Figures on this day someone would go negative and blame the planers and pilots as incompetent. Make no mistake, Franny, the OP, is claiming the pilots who flew on D-Day were incompetent and even some were cowards.

I don't think the pilots were incompetent nor cowards, but they were hamstrung by weather.

 

[Maxdeath]

You seem to think everyone was playing games and sitting on their hands in between both world wars. We had reduced our military because some in DC felt WW1 had put an end to war. There were those that were convinced that every war would be fought trench ware fare. Look at the Maginot line as an example. Our tanks were no match for the Germans because some did not see the need for heavy armor.
In case you forgot we spent a portion of WW2 pretending that it was only over there and in no way affected us.

I agree with you, then we had from December 7th 1941, to June 6th 1944 to come up with better equipment and tactics to combat what we KNEW we were facing. In fact we could have copied it like the Russians did. Why didn't we?

We had the largest, and best unaffected by war industrial might in the world, and kept using crap that we had at, or near the beginning of the war. Yes, our airplane technology advanced, but that wasn't used to our advantage during D Day.

We had to ramp up production from one tank a month if even that. We had to ramp up production of planes, bombs bullets, uniforms, battleships every part of war. We had men who had previously been in the factories and ship yards volunteering. Drafts men and others were leaving to fight. We could have held off until we had better equipment but would England and Russia have still been there?
We were fighting wars on three fronts basically. We were fighting in Africa and Italy. We were fighting in the pacific. With DDay we were fighting in Europe. We lost how many ships at Pearl Harbor. We were losing cargo ships almost daily in the Atlantic. Later we lost ships almost daily in the Pacific.
We were loosing planes by the dozen in a week. Just replacing them was a major undertaking.

Considering that how long should we have held off? How many English and Russians should have died? How many more should have died in concentration camps? The Germans were continually updateding. Are you even aware how long it takes to conceptualize, draft, change over production for a change to a different type of tank? Do we stop building ships to build more and better tanks? We were supplying Russia and England with war material. How do you train people to handle new weapons? Now think about training Russians and the English.

7000 planes were in the air on d day that all missed the beach. The pilots flew high and in the clouds so they didn't get hurt letting thousands get chopped up

Once aonce again I think your number is wrong as are you. A little over 7000 was the total number of planes. That included fighters which did not have bombs, troop transports that do not carry bombs, and even gliders which again carry the nay men.

To think that everyone of those planes that were in the air was assigned a target on the beach is not only wrong but idiotic. They were also bombing miles inland. They were bombing German held towns. They were bombing railways, rail yards, ammo and fuel depots, gun emplacements, roads, command posts.

I understand that not all 7000 planes were beach clearing, but out of 7000 total planes zero hit the target resulting in the biggest pile of allied hamburger possible. 5 planes could have in theory cleared the entire beach, 100 if they had a 50 percent miss ratio would have killed every German there.

You can stomp your silly feet and plug all kinds of crazy 10000 lb bombs into your crazy thoughts all you want the fact remains that in theroy means nothing. The fact that you are talking WW2 tech and thick bunkers. You are talking ground aa and German fighters trying to down planes. You are talking weather having an effect. It all goes into war. How many actual shooting engagements have you been a part of? How many planes have you flown? It is very easy to say in theroy. In the real world during world war 2 is what matters.

 

[Maxdeath]

My point is that a few 500lb bombs would have cleared the beach, and with thousands of planes in the air nothing should have been alive on that beach when the allies arrived. This was the biggest fuckup ever

The larger guns would be easier to target with bombs

Yes or no...….………….boys died because pilots stayed in the clouds

Bombable

Bombable

Bombable

7000 planes did nothing so thousands got chopped up

The cloud cover during D-Day had a very low ceiling. Even if they'd wanted to, the bombers couldn't fly that low. No way. Not back then. Even today I don't think they'll fly that low.

Ike took the chance and launched the invasion. He reasoned that it would be less costly than if the Germans figured out exactly when and exactly where it was going to happen.

Then the imbecilic in charge says no go. What did those bomber pilots do except jerk off and stay safe. If the planes could not fly or hit the target they had no reason to be in the air in the first fucking place did they

Agreed. It was a huge mistake to go if weather didn't allow us the use of our Air Assets. Bad call on Ike's part. D Day made Hamburger Hill look like a picnic in the park.

Really? how do you keep that many people from accidentally giving away the fact that an invasion is coming? The allies used subterfuge as much as possible. They used balloons shaped like tanks and trucks to make it look like war games were going on while everyone was confined to post. They planted false invasion plans on a corpse and let the Germans find it. You are talking thousands of people not just army but navy and AirForce needing to keep from saying anything that could have given a date or place away. There were only limited areas that the invasion could come from any way. One wrong word to a person who mentioned it to another could have been enough.
Weather prediction was good for one or two days. Three was like predicting twelve days in advance today. They tried to go at one point then had to shut down due to weather. How many times do you call it off?

 

[Marion Morrison]

7000 planes all missed their targets on the landing beaches... Why should any German machine gun have survived 7000 planes attacking? Who planned this Charlie Brown

The pilots flew above the clouds to avoid enemy ground fire … definitely a mistake.

War is not as neat and clean nor as precise as today's weapons would have us believe. In fact, we still have collateral damage and friendly fire incidents.

Some WW2 operations went terribly wrong. General Macarthur's island-hopping plan comes quickly to mind and Montgomery's approach also killed far more than necessary. Both, IMHO, were ego-driven.

There should not have been even a living bug on those few beaches where US troops landed. This was one of the biggest fuckups of all time. There were only dozens of German machine gun slots slaughtering boys. Wouldn't a thousand 500lb bombs have cleared the way

Wrong. A good example of what I mean is how the US navy and air forces would bomb Japanese held islands often for days, before US troops landed. Only to find the Japanese had survived the bombings almost unscathed.

It's called digging in...pillboxes...concrete bunkers.

What kinda crap is this where I have to agree with Bodey?!

 

[Marion Morrison]

7000 planes all missed their targets on the landing beaches... Why should any German machine gun have survived 7000 planes attacking? Who planned this Charlie Brown

The pilots flew above the clouds to avoid enemy ground fire … definitely a mistake.

War is not as neat and clean nor as precise as today's weapons would have us believe. In fact, we still have collateral damage and friendly fire incidents.

Some WW2 operations went terribly wrong. General Macarthur's island-hopping plan comes quickly to mind and Montgomery's approach also killed far more than necessary. Both, IMHO, were ego-driven.

There should not have been even a living bug on those few beaches where US troops landed. This was one of the biggest fuckups of all time. There were only dozens of German machine gun slots slaughtering boys. Wouldn't a thousand 500lb bombs have cleared the way

Wrong. A good example of what I mean is how the US navy and air forces would bomb Japanese held islands often for days, before US troops landed. Only to find the Japanese had survived the bombings almost unscathed.

The German defenses were largely ABOVE ground. Not so with the Japanese.

Yes but if the question is why weren’t the shore defenses at Normandy destroyed prior to invasion, we know the answer. The allies wanted the Germans believing the invasion was to be elsewhere. So, they didn’t bomb those shore defenses.

At any rate, WWII aerial bombing was not that effective in destroying enemy forces. The US bombed NK and Vietnam ruthlessly and more consistently than they did Germany and Japan, but failed to win either war.

I just watched a documentary on that the other night. "The Atlantic Wall".
US and UK bombed the shit out of Germany's infrastructure. But yeah, they didn't bomb the beaches they were going to invade to throw the Krauts off.

 

[Frannie]

You expect the government to admit their idiocy.

Do you think they didn't investigate why the bombs missed, or the navy bombardment was ineffective, or that that information was not released? To me, it only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

They investigated JFK too. Why would they say we screwed up and killed how many thousand boys....BOYS NOT MEN

The planes had no chance because of cloud cover, so why were they in the air wasting fuel

I guess they just couldn't see all those clouds from England the night before so they went with what they had. Two and a half months later they were liberating Paris and pushing the Fascist Bastards back towards Motherlandia!

All the adversities you're whining about, only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

Figures on this day someone would go negative and blame the planers and pilots as incompetent. Make no mistake, Franny, the OP, is claiming the pilots who flew on D-Day were incompetent and even some were cowards.

Not that the pilots were incompetent but if the cloud cover made targeting impossible, then 7000 planes were in the air wasting fuel. This never should have happened in that weather

Feel free to agree with me because I am not wrong

 

[Frannie]

The pilots flew above the clouds to avoid enemy ground fire … definitely a mistake.

War is not as neat and clean nor as precise as today's weapons would have us believe. In fact, we still have collateral damage and friendly fire incidents.

Some WW2 operations went terribly wrong. General Macarthur's island-hopping plan comes quickly to mind and Montgomery's approach also killed far more than necessary. Both, IMHO, were ego-driven.

There should not have been even a living bug on those few beaches where US troops landed. This was one of the biggest fuckups of all time. There were only dozens of German machine gun slots slaughtering boys. Wouldn't a thousand 500lb bombs have cleared the way

Wrong. A good example of what I mean is how the US navy and air forces would bomb Japanese held islands often for days, before US troops landed. Only to find the Japanese had survived the bombings almost unscathed.

The German defenses were largely ABOVE ground. Not so with the Japanese.

Yes but if the question is why weren’t the shore defenses at Normandy destroyed prior to invasion, we know the answer. The allies wanted the Germans believing the invasion was to be elsewhere. So, they didn’t bomb those shore defenses.

At any rate, WWII aerial bombing was not that effective in destroying enemy forces. The US bombed NK and Vietnam ruthlessly and more consistently than they did Germany and Japan, but failed to win either war.

I just watched a documentary on that the other night. "The Atlantic Wall".
US and UK bombed the shit out of Germany's infrastructure. But yeah, they didn't bomb the beaches they were going to invade to throw the Krauts off.

And made hamburger out of kids

 

[Camp]

You expect the government to admit their idiocy.

Do you think they didn't investigate why the bombs missed, or the navy bombardment was ineffective, or that that information was not released? To me, it only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

They investigated JFK too. Why would they say we screwed up and killed how many thousand boys....BOYS NOT MEN

The planes had no chance because of cloud cover, so why were they in the air wasting fuel

I guess they just couldn't see all those clouds from England the night before so they went with what they had. Two and a half months later they were liberating Paris and pushing the Fascist Bastards back towards Motherlandia!

All the adversities you're whining about, only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

Figures on this day someone would go negative and blame the planers and pilots as incompetent. Make no mistake, Franny, the OP, is claiming the pilots who flew on D-Day were incompetent and even some were cowards.

Not that the pilots were incompetent but if the cloud cover made targeting impossible, then 7000 planes were in the air wasting fuel. This never should have happened in that weather

Feel free to agree with me because I am not wrong

Four of the five beachheads were successfully bombed. One, Omaha was not. And as has been pointed out directly to you, your 7.000 plane figure included all kinds of aircraft on all kinds of missions.

 

[Marion Morrison]

There should not have been even a living bug on those few beaches where US troops landed. This was one of the biggest fuckups of all time. There were only dozens of German machine gun slots slaughtering boys. Wouldn't a thousand 500lb bombs have cleared the way

Wrong. A good example of what I mean is how the US navy and air forces would bomb Japanese held islands often for days, before US troops landed. Only to find the Japanese had survived the bombings almost unscathed.

The German defenses were largely ABOVE ground. Not so with the Japanese.

Yes but if the question is why weren’t the shore defenses at Normandy destroyed prior to invasion, we know the answer. The allies wanted the Germans believing the invasion was to be elsewhere. So, they didn’t bomb those shore defenses.

At any rate, WWII aerial bombing was not that effective in destroying enemy forces. The US bombed NK and Vietnam ruthlessly and more consistently than they did Germany and Japan, but failed to win either war.

I just watched a documentary on that the other night. "The Atlantic Wall".
US and UK bombed the shit out of Germany's infrastructure. But yeah, they didn't bomb the beaches they were going to invade to throw the Krauts off.

And made hamburger out of kids

War never changes.

 

[Camp]

You expect the government to admit their idiocy.

Do you think they didn't investigate why the bombs missed, or the navy bombardment was ineffective, or that that information was not released? To me, it only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

They investigated JFK too. Why would they say we screwed up and killed how many thousand boys....BOYS NOT MEN

The planes had no chance because of cloud cover, so why were they in the air wasting fuel

I guess they just couldn't see all those clouds from England the night before so they went with what they had. Two and a half months later they were liberating Paris and pushing the Fascist Bastards back towards Motherlandia!

All the adversities you're whining about, only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

Figures on this day someone would go negative and blame the planers and pilots as incompetent. Make no mistake, Franny, the OP, is claiming the pilots who flew on D-Day were incompetent and even some were cowards.

Not that the pilots were incompetent but if the cloud cover made targeting impossible, then 7000 planes were in the air wasting fuel. This never should have happened in that weather

Feel free to agree with me because I am not wrong

You are blaming Eisenhower for giving the OK for giving the go-ahead and launching Overlord. Your opinion is he should have waited until the next time tides would allow an invasion and risked invasion forces being discovered.

 

[Pilot1]

Wrong. A good example of what I mean is how the US navy and air forces would bomb Japanese held islands often for days, before US troops landed. Only to find the Japanese had survived the bombings almost unscathed.

The German defenses were largely ABOVE ground. Not so with the Japanese.

Yes but if the question is why weren’t the shore defenses at Normandy destroyed prior to invasion, we know the answer. The allies wanted the Germans believing the invasion was to be elsewhere. So, they didn’t bomb those shore defenses.

At any rate, WWII aerial bombing was not that effective in destroying enemy forces. The US bombed NK and Vietnam ruthlessly and more consistently than they did Germany and Japan, but failed to win either war.

I just watched a documentary on that the other night. "The Atlantic Wall".
US and UK bombed the shit out of Germany's infrastructure. But yeah, they didn't bomb the beaches they were going to invade to throw the Krauts off.

And made hamburger out of kids

War never changes.

Sure it does. Can you imagine the public outcry if the thousands upon thousands of young men died assaulting a beach today?

 

[Marion Morrison]

The German defenses were largely ABOVE ground. Not so with the Japanese.

Yes but if the question is why weren’t the shore defenses at Normandy destroyed prior to invasion, we know the answer. The allies wanted the Germans believing the invasion was to be elsewhere. So, they didn’t bomb those shore defenses.

At any rate, WWII aerial bombing was not that effective in destroying enemy forces. The US bombed NK and Vietnam ruthlessly and more consistently than they did Germany and Japan, but failed to win either war.

I just watched a documentary on that the other night. "The Atlantic Wall".
US and UK bombed the shit out of Germany's infrastructure. But yeah, they didn't bomb the beaches they were going to invade to throw the Krauts off.

And made hamburger out of kids

War never changes.

Sure it does. Can you imagine the public outcry if the thousands upon thousands of young men died assaulting a beach today?

What had to be done had to be done back then, and everybody knew it.

U-Boats were killing merchant marines a lot.

 

[Frannie]

Do you think they didn't investigate why the bombs missed, or the navy bombardment was ineffective, or that that information was not released? To me, it only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

They investigated JFK too. Why would they say we screwed up and killed how many thousand boys....BOYS NOT MEN

The planes had no chance because of cloud cover, so why were they in the air wasting fuel

I guess they just couldn't see all those clouds from England the night before so they went with what they had. Two and a half months later they were liberating Paris and pushing the Fascist Bastards back towards Motherlandia!

All the adversities you're whining about, only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

Figures on this day someone would go negative and blame the planers and pilots as incompetent. Make no mistake, Franny, the OP, is claiming the pilots who flew on D-Day were incompetent and even some were cowards.

Not that the pilots were incompetent but if the cloud cover made targeting impossible, then 7000 planes were in the air wasting fuel. This never should have happened in that weather

Feel free to agree with me because I am not wrong

You are blaming Eisenhower for giving the OK for giving the go-ahead and launching Overlord. Your opinion is he should have waited until the next time tides would allow an invasion and risked invasion forces being discovered.

Sure am, if 7000 bombers could not bomb because it was not clear then Ike was a NAZI

This was the dumbest decision in all of military history

 

[Moonglow]

They investigated JFK too. Why would they say we screwed up and killed how many thousand boys....BOYS NOT MEN

The planes had no chance because of cloud cover, so why were they in the air wasting fuel

I guess they just couldn't see all those clouds from England the night before so they went with what they had. Two and a half months later they were liberating Paris and pushing the Fascist Bastards back towards Motherlandia!

All the adversities you're whining about, only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

Figures on this day someone would go negative and blame the planers and pilots as incompetent. Make no mistake, Franny, the OP, is claiming the pilots who flew on D-Day were incompetent and even some were cowards.

Not that the pilots were incompetent but if the cloud cover made targeting impossible, then 7000 planes were in the air wasting fuel. This never should have happened in that weather

Feel free to agree with me because I am not wrong

You are blaming Eisenhower for giving the OK for giving the go-ahead and launching Overlord. Your opinion is he should have waited until the next time tides would allow an invasion and risked invasion forces being discovered.

Sure am, if 7000 bombers could not bomb because it was not clear then Ike was a NAZI

Well go dig him up and ask him...

 

[Moonglow]

The German defenses were largely ABOVE ground. Not so with the Japanese.

Yes but if the question is why weren’t the shore defenses at Normandy destroyed prior to invasion, we know the answer. The allies wanted the Germans believing the invasion was to be elsewhere. So, they didn’t bomb those shore defenses.

At any rate, WWII aerial bombing was not that effective in destroying enemy forces. The US bombed NK and Vietnam ruthlessly and more consistently than they did Germany and Japan, but failed to win either war.

I just watched a documentary on that the other night. "The Atlantic Wall".
US and UK bombed the shit out of Germany's infrastructure. But yeah, they didn't bomb the beaches they were going to invade to throw the Krauts off.

And made hamburger out of kids

War never changes.

Sure it does. Can you imagine the public outcry if the thousands upon thousands of young men died assaulting a beach today?

Less people die in an invasion because of more accurate weapons still humans die.

 

[Frannie]

I guess they just couldn't see all those clouds from England the night before so they went with what they had. Two and a half months later they were liberating Paris and pushing the Fascist Bastards back towards Motherlandia!

All the adversities you're whining about, only makes what those boys accomplished that day even more amazing.

Figures on this day someone would go negative and blame the planers and pilots as incompetent. Make no mistake, Franny, the OP, is claiming the pilots who flew on D-Day were incompetent and even some were cowards.

Not that the pilots were incompetent but if the cloud cover made targeting impossible, then 7000 planes were in the air wasting fuel. This never should have happened in that weather

Feel free to agree with me because I am not wrong

You are blaming Eisenhower for giving the OK for giving the go-ahead and launching Overlord. Your opinion is he should have waited until the next time tides would allow an invasion and risked invasion forces being discovered.

Sure am, if 7000 bombers could not bomb because it was not clear then Ike was a NAZI

Well go dig him up and ask him...

My time has more worth

 

[Frannie]

The German defenses were largely ABOVE ground. Not so with the Japanese.

Yes but if the question is why weren’t the shore defenses at Normandy destroyed prior to invasion, we know the answer. The allies wanted the Germans believing the invasion was to be elsewhere. So, they didn’t bomb those shore defenses.

At any rate, WWII aerial bombing was not that effective in destroying enemy forces. The US bombed NK and Vietnam ruthlessly and more consistently than they did Germany and Japan, but failed to win either war.

I just watched a documentary on that the other night. "The Atlantic Wall".
US and UK bombed the shit out of Germany's infrastructure. But yeah, they didn't bomb the beaches they were going to invade to throw the Krauts off.

And made hamburger out of kids

War never changes.

Sure it does. Can you imagine the public outcry if the thousands upon thousands of young men died assaulting a beach today?

And no one bombed the beach before???????????????????????????????????????????????????????