Fabricated Intelligence...Fact or Fiction?

[Bullypulpit]

In a recently declassified document from Doug Feith's Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, Mr. Feith attempted to forge a link between Osama bin Laden and Iraq. This involved allegations that bin Laden's al-Hijra Company used a company in the Netherlands as a go-between for arms sales to Iraq. The Dutch company allegedly involved was Vlemmo NV.

Unfortunately, it would seem that this company has never existed. According to the Dutch Foreign Minister, Maxime Verhagen, ""The company has never been registered with the Chamber of Commerce in the Netherlands and is also not known to the tax service. That the company may have served as a front for illegal arms trade with Iraq is equally unknown to me." And the Dutch have been collecting taxes in the Netherlands for several centuries, so it would seem unlikely that such a company would escape their attention.

This report is but a thread in the fabric of lies woven by the Bush administration to justify the invasion and occupation of Iraq. That fabric is now coming apart at the seams, and the lies are bing revealed, bit by bit. The pity is that it didn't happen sooner. How many lives could have been spared in a needless war on a country that posed no threat to the US?

 

[Chips Rafferty]

In a recently declassified document from Doug Feith's Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, Mr. Feith attempted to forge a link between Osama bin Laden and Iraq. This involved allegations that bin Laden's al-Hijra Company used a company in the Netherlands as a go-between for arms sales to Iraq. The Dutch company allegedly involved was Vlemmo NV.

Unfortunately, it would seem that this company has never existed. According to the Dutch Foreign Minister, Maxime Verhagen, ""The company has never been registered with the Chamber of Commerce in the Netherlands and is also not known to the tax service. That the company may have served as a front for illegal arms trade with Iraq is equally unknown to me." And the Dutch have been collecting taxes in the Netherlands for several centuries, so it would seem unlikely that such a company would escape their attention.

This report is but a thread in the fabric of lies woven by the Bush administration to justify the invasion and occupation of Iraq. That fabric is now coming apart at the seams, and the lies are bing revealed, bit by bit. The pity is that it didn't happen sooner. How many lives could have been spared in a needless war on a country that posed no threat to the US?

You won't get an answer, BP. Their heads are purblindly buried in the Red, White, and Blue sand.

Doncha know that Eye-Wrack is solely responsible for 9/11, and so is every country that we invade, bomb, blockade, or carry out biological or "nooklah" warfare against in the future!

Who was it that said patriotism is nothing but narcissitic people who think their country is sacred simply because they were born there. Or words to that effect?

 

[Annie]

While looking for a bit more of what Bully was addressing, I found this:

http://www.nisnews.nl/public/230507_2.htm

...Verhagen comments that apparent differences of opinion between US authorities on the possible connections between Iraq and Al Qa'ida "are an internal US matter." Apart from this, he wishes to "once again stress that the justification for intervention in Iraq for the Netherlands did not lie in the possible involvement of Iraq in terrorism, but in non-compliance with the UN Security Council resolutions."

I know it would be totally off of anyone's concept map that al qaeda was capable of running a shell game with money.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yup, those secret right wing nut jobs in the Intelligence services of the US managed to sneak that one by all the loyal employees, you know the ones that like to leak stuff that might hurt the President or claim he "outed" a non secret agent.

And of course the mind control ray that Bush has made the entire world agree.

 

[jillian]

While looking for a bit more of what Bully was addressing, I found this:

http://www.nisnews.nl/public/230507_2.htm



I know it would be totally off of anyone's concept map that al qaeda was capable of running a shell game with money.

Of course they are. They just didn't do it with Iraq because Saddam HATED the fundies and they hated him right back.

 

[Gunny]

Of course they are. They just didn't do it with Iraq because Saddam HATED the fundies and they hated him right back.

I don't think "hate" is the right word WHERE you have applied it. True enough, Saddam and fundies were ideological opposites; therefore, giving Saddam reason to fear them.

At the same time, the old axiom "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" can also apply. If one could use the other to strike at us or Israel, I can easily see that happening. No doubt is was probably discussed more than once; which, is where this conversation always ends up.

To what extent was Saddam and OBL/AQ involved with one another? IMO, minimal at best. I don't think anything ever got past talk.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I don't think "hate" is the right word WHERE you have applied it. True enough, Saddam and fundies were ideological opposites; therefore, giving Saddam reason to fear them.

At the same time, the old axiom "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" can also apply. If one could use the other to strike at us or Israel, I can easily see that happening. No doubt is was probably discussed more than once; which, is where this conversation always ends up.

To what extent was Saddam and OBL/AQ involved with one another? IMO, minimal at best. I don't think anything ever got past talk.

I agree, BUT the threat was that eventually that TALK could or would become more than JUST TALK. Saddam was trying hard to find terrorist networks to do his dirty work.

 

[jillian]

I don't think "hate" is the right word WHERE you have applied it. True enough, Saddam and fundies were ideological opposites; therefore, giving Saddam reason to fear them.

At the same time, the old axiom "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" can also apply. If one could use the other to strike at us or Israel, I can easily see that happening. No doubt is was probably discussed more than once; which, is where this conversation always ends up.

To what extent was Saddam and OBL/AQ involved with one another? IMO, minimal at best. I don't think anything ever got past talk.

Israel wasn't Bin Laden's objective... getting our AFB out of Saudi Arabia (which he succeeded at...) was.

As for Israel... taking out Saddam didn't do much in that regard.... it just empowered Iran.... which actually has, or will have, the capability of taking out Israel.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

WE were Saddam's enemy. HE had a hard on for striking at the US. He wanted terrorist groups not to attack Israel, he already had them for that, but to attack the US.

 

[jillian]

WE were Saddam's enemy. HE had a hard on for striking at the US. He wanted terrorist groups not to attack Israel, he already had them for that, but to attack the US.

You're just making up stuff out of whole cloth now...

It's beautiful out and I'm off and running. Thanks for the convo.

Laterz.

 

[Gunny]

I agree, BUT the threat was that eventually that TALK could or would become more than JUST TALK. Saddam was trying hard to find terrorist networks to do his dirty work.

I don't doubt Saddam would have tried to use anything that would allow him to. At the same time, there is no evidence to support it because it didn't go beyond talk.

A lot of the so called evidence/justification for invading is/was based on "common knowledge," accepted as fact by everyone things such as this, that IMO, it was not good business to not verify completely before invading. The reason being to avoid the past 4 years of "Bush lied" accusations.

I STILL see "there were no WMDs" used as justification to accuse Bush of lying, when any fool with half a brain KNOWS there were.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You're just making up stuff out of whole cloth now...

It's beautiful out and I'm off and running. Thanks for the convo.

Laterz.

More proof of your total ignorance on the issue.

 

[Gunny]

Israel wasn't Bin Laden's objective... getting our AFB out of Saudi Arabia (which he succeeded at...) was.

Yes, but not quite as simple as that. He wants ALL foreign feet off of Arab soil. The AFB and SA allowing the US to stage US troops in SA were just the catalysts to get his panties in a wad.

As for Israel... taking out Saddam didn't do much in that regard.... it just empowered Iran.... which actually has, or will have, the capability of taking out Israel.

The ineffectiveness of the UN has empowered Iran, coupled with knowledge that nobody will do anything to Iran until they actually blow something up.

I don't know that removing Saddam has empowered Iran except that the shia are the majority in Iraq. It will depend on how Saudi Arabia reacts, and it will also depend on the kurds, who thus far have just been sitting on the sideline playing the smar game watching everyone else kill each other.

 

[onedomino]

Iran.... which actually has, or will have, the capability of taking out Israel.

That is not the case now, nor will it ever be...no matter who is President. There is no Commander in Chief, whether from the left or right, that will permit the Iranians to possess nuclear weapons.